# CSM 14 Second Summit Meeting Minutes **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** official, csm\ **Created:** [April 17, 2020, 5:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538 "2020-04-17T17:09:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Shipwreck\_Jones](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shipwreck_jones/32/274382_2.png) [@Shipwreck\_Jones](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shipwreck_Jones)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 3:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/194 "2020-04-21T03:20:45Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > The difference is Faylee presents long well written structured arguments on why they are right. Yeah, I try to do the same myself. The difference is that I don’t feel like I’m entitled to having my opinion regurgitated directly to CCP by the CSM. > [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > Yes… that’s why we have CSM members literally calling an entire section of space bots. I mean seriously? And the entire rest of the CSM did not denounce that as inappropriate and demand they withdraw it, which makes them complicit in silence. Yeah, what Vily said was factually wrong and insulting. Feel free to give him crap for it. However, we don’t know what the other CSM’s said on the matter (or if they rolled their eyes or made jerking off expressions) because we didn’t see a transcript, only a summary. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 3:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/195 "2020-04-21T03:27:40Z")
> [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > we didn’t see a transcript, only a summary. And if the CSM all slammed him, that should be in a summary because you know, that would be part of a summary is including a majority response. The lack of it clearly says that A: It was a significant enough statement to be included in the summary and B: No significant CSM response against it happened. So no, I’m not buying the ‘it was just a summary’ excuse. Hell even CCP should have slammed him over it, which also clearly says that CCP are at least partly buying into the line of thinking that lead to that statement. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 3:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/196 "2020-04-21T03:29:43Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > And if the CSM all slammed him, that should be in a summary because you know, that would be part of a summary is including a majority response. But it wasn’t. None of the reactions to stuff were included. ---
**Author:** ![Shipwreck\_Jones](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shipwreck_jones/32/274382_2.png) [@Shipwreck\_Jones](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shipwreck_Jones)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 4:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/197 "2020-04-21T04:26:17Z")
Um, did you miss all the people from nullsec who have been complaining about mining and capital nerfs? And, of course, you can bet your bottom isk that many of them have been goons. > [@Surgical Strike – Coming 15 April](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/surgical-strike-coming-15-april/230569/117): > > Goonswarm? Check 2 solo kills? Check A fountain of tears? ■■■■■■■ check Adapt or die Blue up the hotpockets Funny to see how demented most of NS have become due to the years of pandering by CCP. And see how they cry their eyes out when they cant use a solo super to kill a ■■■■■■■ stabber anymore. Listen up, put one of your countless krabbing accounts into a tackler and you can still function as you did before. ---
**Author:** ![Shipwreck\_Jones](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shipwreck_jones/32/274382_2.png) [@Shipwreck\_Jones](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shipwreck_Jones)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 4:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/198 "2020-04-21T04:32:14Z")
> [@Tipa\_Riot](#): > > Right, some of us remember a time there was a competition to their highsec hub, until Gobbins lobbied CCP into doing a very specific change to wardecs only for highsec to remove any further competition attempt. See, I thought it was because the nullblocs decided to stop fighting, work together, and share the profits. ---
**Author:** ![Faylee\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/faylee_freir/32/439750_2.png) [@Faylee\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Faylee_Freir)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 4:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/199 "2020-04-21T04:47:13Z")
> [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > And I bet you think you know better as well. 🙂 Not in all cases. I started to think just now of how I can convey my thoughts in the form of a multi-page write up, but I realize it would be in vain. What I will say is that the play style that myself and many many other players like me is something that I think is lost on the general population of the game. The average player in Nullsec plays the game to be apart of this broad organization that controls swaths of space. Yes I am aware this is a generalization, but they hardly have the experiences that I have had, specifically with Highsec and all the mechanics that exist (and used to exist). I’m not always right, but in some specific cases I’m more right than even some of the most respected and followed Nullsec participants. Their uninformed opinions and experiences with some things hold no candle. > [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > Second, it’s a lot easier to influence someone’s thinking when they don’t have preexisting schemas that might conflict with what you’re trying to say This is true, unless that have a pre-existing bias. I wonder how many people disapprove of my ideas or suggestions purely based on how I conduct myself in-game? I wonder how many people disapprove of them because of what group I’m apart of. I’m not using Brisc as an example here because I think he discredited my input because I’m in Pirat. His action and interaction in the Wardec Project discord led me to believe that he was someone that willingly engaged in debate and discussion with us. I don’t ever recall him ever really putting his pride or his Nullsec tribalism aside to really listen to us and see the value of our content in Highsec. Instead it was just lip service. I mean at least he pretended to care. That’s gotta count for something. > [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > So, perhaps you might want to ask yourself how you might improve your persuasive attempts instead of just accusing people of being closed minded? I’m not so sure I can really do it any better apart from being on one of the shows on Twitch to present a case for our gameplay and what CCP has been doing is wrong. I am too lazy to look it up for you, but you ought to go watch the Talking In Stations episode where they interviewed Mitch Taylor from Wrecking Machine. They were trying their best to paint him as some kind of demon, but he navigated his way around their ■■■■■■■■ and they really didn’t have much else to say. It’s that bias and pre-existing opinion of someone, a group, or an activity that Nullsec players tend to paint with… Kinda like I think they are all simple-minded F1 monkeys. > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > All we really need to be able to do is highlight that this is an issue for CCP to address, and one that’s critical. Have they not flown through space in their own game or heard an ounce of player feedback? > [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > Thus, it is logistically impossible (and would be a waste of time if it wasn’t) for the CSM to simply regurgitate the feedback that we’re already providing to them via the forums and reddit. See if we had a community relations team that consisted of more than one person something like browsing the forums and pulling statistics on what is most desired, the most complained about, the most satisfactory would work well. Then CCP could maybe do something like look into the most talked about issues instead of having to read some thread where someone wants **cat ears** on their portrait. (Cat ears? I mean come on how sick are we as a society???) > [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > If you want your feedback to rise above the noise, you should try to be as persuasive as possible, try to gain support for it, and/or cut out the middleman and run for CSM yourself. I’ve posted as a candidate before, but never seriously ran for a few reasons. I’m in Pirat, probably the second most hated group in the game behind Goonswarm. Short of Pirat bankrolling a ton of alts to vote with, it’s not going to happen. It’s mostly a popularity contest anyway. 😉 > [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > Yeah, I try to do the same myself. The difference is that I don’t feel like I’m entitled to having my opinion regurgitated directly to CCP by the CSM. Yeah that’s a fault of mine I admit. Can you blame me though? When you have to listen to morons drivel on about how to improve an area of the game they have absolutely no interest or stake in, it can be infuriating. Yeah I think highly of myself and my core beliefs when approaching the game, but so does Brisc 😉 My point is that when CCP is interested in fixing wars in highsec who do you think they should listen to? A bunch of nullsec players or someone that was pushed in front by a lot of his peers to bring issues and ideas to CCP’s attention via the CSM? ---
**Author:** ![Shipwreck\_Jones](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shipwreck_jones/32/274382_2.png) [@Shipwreck\_Jones](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shipwreck_Jones)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 5:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/200 "2020-04-21T05:13:35Z")
> [@Galaxy\_Raid](#): > > I’ve played more than ten years and this forum post is likely the most engagement I’ll ever have with the CSM 1. CSM members have a lot on their plate. Like, I cannot stress this enough. It’s not just summits. They put in an incredible amount of work. 2. If you want community candidates, vote for community candidates. 3. Some CSM’s are a lot more active in other places, such as Reddit and the CSM discord. By the way, you guys do know that there is a CSM discord right? > **[Join the Official CSM Discord Discord Server!](https://discord.com/invite/bbbCBAu)** > > Check out the Official CSM Discord community on Discord - hang out with 808 other members and enjoy free voice and text chat. ---
**Author:** ![Shipwreck\_Jones](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shipwreck_jones/32/274382_2.png) [@Shipwreck\_Jones](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shipwreck_Jones)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 5:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/201 "2020-04-21T05:29:21Z")
I think I found the episode you were talking about [here](https://www.talkinginstations.com/2018/10/tis-10-07-2018-declarations-of-war/). I’ll check it out, but that contradicts my impressions of the TiS crew. I always felt like they have valued the entire player ecosystem, and that they have shown respect and genuine interest to all their guests -including those that are sometimes looked down upon, such as carebears and gankers. > [@Faylee\_Freir](#): > > Yeah I think highly of myself and my core beliefs when approaching the game, but so does Brisc lol. that makes 3 of us. ---
**Author:** ![Faylee\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/faylee_freir/32/439750_2.png) [@Faylee\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Faylee_Freir)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 5:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/202 "2020-04-21T05:46:26Z")
Yeah that’s it. Commander Aze is pretty cringey in that as he tries his hardest to paint Mitch with a ■■■■ covered paintbrush. ---
**Author:** ![Chadwikk](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/chadwikk/32/267555_2.png) [@Chadwikk](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Chadwikk)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 6:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/203 "2020-04-21T06:34:15Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > You’re allowed to accept donations in certain forms for services. What you’re not allowed to do is convert ISK to cash directly or indirectly. Like you can’t sell your mate ISK for money. That’s direct RMT. You also cannot buy a brick off your mate for ISK, then sell than brick separately to your mate for cash. That’s indirect RMT. > > For some strange reason there is one exception to this, and that is that you can buy content with ISK, then sell that content for cash, if you are a media website. This is what I mean. It clearly is indirect RMT, but it’s also explicitly allowed by CCP at present. > > Bear in mind this is not new. This discussion has been had years and years ago, and it’s generally accepted that it is a form of RMT, just a CCP accepted form of RMT. Similarly some gambling sites used to give ISK credit if you bought PLEX through their affiliate links. That was indirect RMT and wall allowed for quite a while before CCP changed their viewpoint and shut it down. I actually agree with your premise, I just don’t agree that it applies to this example because you are not selling the posts directly for cash, and the posts are part of the game. You are selling ads on the website which has the post. It is exactly the same as streaming on twitch or making youtube videos with ad rev. You are basically trading in game assets or currencies for in game services or products. I never said the isk giveaway was subscriber only. My same example applies to an isk giveaway that is not subscriber only that anyone can see, just because an isk give away is open to everyone doesn’t mean it isn’t monetized in some form. > “The advertisement or sale of out of game goods and services not directly related to EVE Online is prohibited. The only out of game goods and services which can be advertised or sold for in-game currency or assets are the following: EVE forum signature creation, EVE related websites, EVE related artwork, third party voice communication server hosting, or EVE Time Codes.” ---
**Author:** ![Chadwikk](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/chadwikk/32/267555_2.png) [@Chadwikk](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Chadwikk)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 6:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/204 "2020-04-21T06:45:15Z")
> [@Circumstantial\_Evidence](#): > > You have an interesting idea for asset safety. But on the subject of income and scarcity, CCP seems to be moving toward reducing incomes and creating scarcity in null, and have a long term plan to move resources around, in hopes that groups might get into conflict over that. Yes I actually think this is a great plan, but I think you also have to remove the isk generation that is done all across eve or else it won’t achieve their desired goal. When you can bypass the whole supply chain and collaboration between enemies that must happen to get rich by just farming the isk directly it is problematic in my opinion. If your only source of income is a specific ore or whatever your system puts out it is a much bigger deal when that stream of income is threatened. If another corporation is tanking the prices of your minerals or hurting the demand for your products this can cause major conflict. If you always have the fallback of lets just go farm billions of isk directly from bounties or whatever massive isk generators there are now these systems will not work as well. Isk also can’t be stolen, the second you farm it is safe from theft or war. This in itself isn’t problematic, but the fact that you make the majority of your isk directly without having to take physical items to different locations to sell them or broker deals is definitely a problem. The vast majority of players income needs to come from non direct isk generation and involve player interaction and moving items throughout space. What I have noticed over many years of playing MMO’s is that players notoriously don’t know what they want for their game, they think they know what they want but they usually end up ruining their game over their own suggestions. Usually players all want things to be easier, more convenient, or faster. They don’t realize that those inconveniences from the “glory days” of their favorite game are the reason so many players were so motivated and driven to constantly play it. ---
**Author:** ![z0ra\_Berg](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/z0ra_berg/32/187042_2.png) [@z0ra\_Berg](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/z0ra_Berg)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 6:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/205 "2020-04-21T06:54:07Z")
> [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > lol. that makes 3 of us. Four. 😊 And everyone else does so as well 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 6:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/206 "2020-04-21T06:55:00Z")
> [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > See, I thought it was because the nullblocs decided to stop fighting, work together, and share the profits. Nope, this happened only after killing the hub remained the only option to disrupt its profits. Before the change it was possible to have competing hubs operating for up to two weeks before destruction. This kept the situation healthy unstable and fees low. Apparently it was effective, because Gobbins was very vocal in all media about changing the situation in his favor… and CCP did exactly what he wished for. ---
**Author:** ![Chadwikk](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/chadwikk/32/267555_2.png) [@Chadwikk](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Chadwikk)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 7:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/207 "2020-04-21T07:07:50Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > Why would this encourage conflict. Why do I want to bother fighting for your system when my system makes plenty of isk. Do I really need to explain to you why getting to loot someone’ citadel when killing it would encourage conflict? If you want to make more isk you will want to hold more systems. Players who don’t hold systems will be way more encouraged to take some over or expand what they own. There are many ways this can be done. > [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > And then we also just have an inactive alt that we transfer everything to for asset safety. If you are transferring items to an alt then obviously that alt has logged in to receive the items so the asset safety doesn’t work. Did you even think about my recommendation or read what I said? The asset safety would work on a sliding scale based on last login time. Maybe 20% safety for 1 month and sliding to 100% at 1 year offline. There are many ways to implement it without abuse. Can you show me where else this has been recommended please I would like to read up on it? > [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > And without asset safety goons win EVE by looting everyone elses stuff in a snowball effect since as they win fights, they get all their losses replaced while everyone else loses even larger than before. This idea that one coalition would take over the galaxy is just false. Goons could not control every system and there is always NPC stations to use as an anchor. You know that wormholes don’t have asset safety right? Can you explain to my why one wormhole corp doesn’t own all the wormholes and dominate everyone who moves in? I am shocked you don’t think the fact you can just asset safety items and log off is not problematic. It would change the way people play the game and would incentivize people to actually fight or flee instead of log off for the win. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 7:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/208 "2020-04-21T07:11:16Z")
> [@Chadwikk](#): > > Do I really need to explain to you why getting to loot someone’ citadel when killing it would encourage conflict? This would only encourage temporary conflict before it created a snowball effect and one side wins null. Game now over, zero conflict. > [@Chadwikk](#): > > If you are transferring items to an alt then obviously that alt has logged in to receive the items No, you can transfer without needing the alt to login. It’s been suggested every single d… time that asset safety is discussed. > [@Chadwikk](#): > > This idea that one coalition would take over the galaxy is just false That’s why it happened on Serenity even with assets not being able to be killed. > [@Chadwikk](#): > > Can you explain to my why one wormhole corp doesn’t own all the wormholes and dominate everyone who moves in? Uh… you know that WH’s are dominated by one particular WH coalition right? ---
**Author:** ![Circumstantial\_Evidence](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/circumstantial_evidence/32/399551_2.png) [@Circumstantial\_Evidence](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Circumstantial_Evidence)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 7:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/209 "2020-04-21T07:30:34Z")
> [@Chadwikk](#): > > This idea that one coalition would take over the galaxy is just false > [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > That’s why it happened on Serenity even with assets not being able to be killed. Nevyn’s comment is kind of flip, I will support and expand on that with the little that I know. In the last days of the old Serenity server, which is now a couple years ago - it had not been updated for about 2 years prior to that. One coalition known as PIBC grew to dominate all of null. Complete stagnation. ---
**Author:** ![Chadwikk](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/chadwikk/32/267555_2.png) [@Chadwikk](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Chadwikk)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 7:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/210 "2020-04-21T07:30:34Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > No, you can transfer without needing the alt to login. It’s been suggested every single d… time that asset safety is discussed. Maybe I am confused can you tell me how this transfer is done? Also can you show me this recommendation I really have never seen it. > [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > Uh… you know that WH’s are dominated by one particular WH coalition right? There are tons of small, medium and large WH corps that exist and tons of people still play the game. Which coalition are you claiming dominates all WH’s again? Can you actually use facts? You are just making broad statements without any actual arguments or facts lol, most of your statements are just plain out wrong or misleading. You said in one sentence that the changes I am suggesting would ruin the game because one coalition would conquer eve, then literally in the next sentence completely defeated yourself by saying the current mechanics have lead to a coalition conquering the whole galaxy. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 7:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/211 "2020-04-21T07:34:38Z")
> [@Chadwikk](#): > > You said in one sentence that the changes I am suggesting would ruin the game because one coalition would conquer eve, then literally in the next sentence completely defeated yourself by saying the current mechanics have lead to a coalition conquering the whole galaxy. Not at all. I said current mechanics allow it to happen already. If you get loot dropped from killing your enemies and get to keep it yourself to use to further your attacks, this creates a snowball effect because your enemies now take far bigger losses and you take far smaller losses. This will make it happen even faster than current mechanics allow, As for the WH Coalition. Sure, other WH corps exist, just like other alliances hold space in null than the huge coalitions. That doesn’t make them meaningful and they only live there at the sufferance of the big groups. Take Providence for example, while they do an amazing job, they can be burnt out of their space by any of the big groups who can be bothered. And if you want to know who, go and actually find out yourself, I don’t exist to spoon feed the ignorant. ---
**Author:** ![Chadwikk](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/chadwikk/32/267555_2.png) [@Chadwikk](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Chadwikk)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 7:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/212 "2020-04-21T07:39:49Z")
I have honestly heard this “Oh no X will cause eve to be won” or “Eve is dead it has been won” so many times and it is never true. People keep playing because they like the game and the meta shifts. If you think people would just leave all their assets in a citadel to give to the enemy that wouldn’t happen. It would just increase the risk and commitment to defending a system or trying to keep a system. BoB conquered even in the past, Goons damn near conquered even in 2012, NC has also done the same thing. We all still play the game, the game ebbs and flows and power changes hands as it should. ---
**Author:** ![Chadwikk](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/chadwikk/32/267555_2.png) [@Chadwikk](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Chadwikk)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 7:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/213 "2020-04-21T07:46:26Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > And if you want to know who, go and actually find out yourself, I don’t exist to spoon feed the ignorant. Exactly as I thought your response would be, instead of providing the most basic of facts to back up your argument you resorted to calling me ignorant. Have you ever stopped to think that maybe these massive coalitions wouldn’t form with a meta shift? Or that they would be more incentivized to break up? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538.md?page=9) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538.md?page=11)