# CSM 14 Second Summit Meeting Minutes **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** official, csm\ **Created:** [April 17, 2020, 5:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538 "2020-04-17T17:09:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Induce\_Deadline](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/induce_deadline/32/418955_2.png) [@Induce\_Deadline](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Induce_Deadline)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2020, 5:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/21 "2020-04-18T05:47:07Z")
lol “analysis” Where are those suggestions? ---
**Author:** ![Julia\_Belvar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/julia_belvar/32/198927_2.png) [@Julia\_Belvar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Julia_Belvar)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2020, 5:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/22 "2020-04-18T05:50:57Z")
Did I just read this correctly? During CCP’s question about the effects of asteroid belt mining changes after moon mining was nerfed, a CSM member stated that all HS miners in belts are just BOTs anyways and therefore the data is invalid? **"One change CCP expected to see from the recent changes was an increase in asteroid belt mining."** **"Vily calls this fake data as it’s just miners in high sec that are botters."** Really? ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Quaan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lucas_quaan/32/372581_2.png) [@Lucas\_Quaan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lucas_Quaan)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2020, 6:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/23 "2020-04-18T06:09:01Z")
> Having pre-fitted ships takes away the daunting task of deciding what to fly and how to fit it. Really? With Gobbins in the room? ---
**Author:** ![Ysonoko\_Lelexandrian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ysonoko_lelexandrian/32/188953_2.png) [@Ysonoko\_Lelexandrian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ysonoko_Lelexandrian)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2020, 6:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/24 "2020-04-18T06:13:34Z")
If you care enough to know, you can always browse through someone’s forum activity. Instead of asking them to cite it themselves. When someone says they normally do/don’t do something, you can verify it on their forum activity tracker. Just saying. ---
**Author:** ![Billy\_Camacho](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/billy_camacho/32/198931_2.png) [@Billy\_Camacho](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Billy_Camacho)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2020, 6:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/25 "2020-04-18T06:18:20Z")
About incursions, First of all suspect, bad idea and it breaks the lore. Why would concord suspect you if you are literally helping them out? The “elitism” and bling ships. What is the problem with that ? It increases the risk/reward you guys want so much. Each time incursion runners get ganked, which happens if pilots put the time and effort into it. Said gankers get insane rewards and incursion runners get ■■■■■■. Which is good, pvp. (on that last part, see every big incursion gank that killed over 20 bil worth of ships) (the travel and gate ganks are also worth a mention and provide content for said gankers) The skill requirements provide a barrier for new players to join incursion, which in turn limits the amount of isk produced. (The last patch pretty much restricted this even more, incursion groups not allowing alpha pilots in anymore. Which is good for CCP.) The only thing that has to be done in order to increase risk in these incursions, (again risk is high because of the expensiveness of the ships.) Is people putting the effort in preparing a 20 bil+ gank. There are a lot of things gankers can already do to easily snatch a stupid incursion runner AFKing at gate or something, not many are doing it. Incursion runners are also a big market for abyssal rolling and very expensive modules. Oh and last thing about said elitism. Let’s not forget all the big incursion communities very much accept new players, (untill the patch, all communities accepted alpha’s) In the most minimum ship working possible. And teaches them. EDIT: One extra thing, be carefull on how incursions are changed. If changed in the wrong way, incursion runners will just bring cheap expendable ships. Where is the high risk reward in that? Please CCP or CSM talk to incursion communities, at least hear them out. Or CSM, hop in TDF, WTM, NGA (russian) teamspeak and talk to us. chats are TDF-Official, Warp to me Incursions, New Galaxy Age. You can find the teamspeak adresses from there. ---
**Author:** ![Penance\_Toralen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/penance_toralen/32/244089_2.png) [@Penance\_Toralen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Penance_Toralen)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2020, 6:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/26 "2020-04-18T06:41:41Z")
> [@Julia\_Belvar](#): > > Vily calls this fake data as it’s just miners in high sec that are botters. Based this feedback CCP should react with the same measure applied when Alphas were botting L4 Courier missions. That is to just remove all applicable content related to the botting going on, i.e. complete removal of mining from Hi-Sec. Well now that we have Australian Localisation; there certainly are some wankers on the CSM. ---
**Author:** ![Blazemonger](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/blazemonger/32/398448_2.png) [@Blazemonger](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Blazemonger)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2020, 7:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/27 "2020-04-18T07:30:04Z")
Amazing how CSM is keeps crying about nullified interceptors. CCP Rise clearly has no idea about Poker 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2020, 7:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/28 "2020-04-18T07:45:23Z")
I only wanted to say that this chili from recipe will burn you a new one with 8 habaneros! 😂 ---
**Author:** ![Drago\_Shouna](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/drago_shouna/32/350651_2.png) [@Drago\_Shouna](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Drago_Shouna)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2020, 9:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/29 "2020-04-18T09:08:14Z")
> [@Buoytender\_Bob](#): > > That Olmeca Gold states that the goal of non consensual PvP is to lead to consensual PvP and that PvE is a no risk endeavor. That CCP needs to add rewards and tools for the PvP hunters. Good look selling that to most HS players. LOL, I stopped reading at that point. Overall the attendees were only interested in their own neck of the woods and what they and their mates can get out of it. I won’t go on about the garbage they were spouting… ---
**Author:** ![Drago\_Shouna](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/drago_shouna/32/350651_2.png) [@Drago\_Shouna](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Drago_Shouna)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2020, 9:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/30 "2020-04-18T09:14:00Z")
Habaneros are low skilled, get some ghost chilies in it 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Utarg\_of\_Utarg](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/utarg_of_utarg/32/288345_2.png) [@Utarg\_of\_Utarg](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Utarg_of_Utarg)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2020, 9:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/31 "2020-04-18T09:25:22Z")
You gonna offer up any ideas?.. We can all snipe from afar without offering our own suggestions, that’s easy! Pot, kettle. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2020, 9:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/32 "2020-04-18T09:50:33Z")
> [@Drago\_Shouna](#): > > I won’t go on about the garbage they were spouting… Its good CCP doesnt have to listen to them at all. 😌 ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2020, 9:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/33 "2020-04-18T09:54:58Z")
Well until now, did CCP put their hand in their pocket for the Summits? ---
**Author:** ![Vortigern\_Vitalis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vortigern_vitalis/32/455600_2.png) [@Vortigern\_Vitalis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vortigern_Vitalis)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2020, 11:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/35 "2020-04-18T11:05:09Z")
> [@Jerry\_Falcone](#): > > it’s still there… its one of the advanced military ones if i’m not mistaken… you lose a merlin, but if you are smart, you’d insure it for some free iskies. Actually, the Advanced Military career missions have two where you have to lose a ship. The first (mission two of ten) is called something like “Angel of Mercy” where you kamikaze a frigate into a pirate base, whilst the other (called “The Stand”, number four or five in the sequence) has you take on a whole fleet of frigates and drones with no possibility of destroying any except the first fighter. As you say, in both cases, if one is clever, one insures the ships first. Also, bookmark the sites and visit them afterwards - there is always something to salvage. ---
**Author:** ![Sho\_Riagl\_Khardula](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sho_riagl_khardula/32/292422_2.png) [@Sho\_Riagl\_Khardula](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sho_Riagl_Khardula)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2020, 11:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/36 "2020-04-18T11:22:26Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > It’s both amusing and scary that reading this shows that the vast majority of the CSM members look at everything from a nullsec perspective. Unfortunately, human nature and social conditioning generally dictates a range of cognitive biases - implicit or otherwise. The CSM cannot be expected to be immune to this as, after all, they are only human. It becomes more of an issue when some indulge an innate bias. A good example perhaps being, _“Vily calls this fake data as it’s just miners in high sec that are botters”_. All CSM members should, at the very least, be able to raise their personal bar above this base. Where they can’t, then perhaps they should reconsider their position or, at the very least, withdraw their remark. Now, as Vily made this remark whilst performing an active CSM duty, I think that they should be called upon to validate their position by way of empirical data. Where they are unable to do this they should publically withdraw that particularly flippant remark. In the meantime [we] just have to accept that implicit bias (amongs others) is a _‘thing’_ and where it occurs it should be called out as such. ---
**Author:** ![Telumus\_Talvanen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/telumus_talvanen/32/194951_2.png) [@Telumus\_Talvanen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Telumus_Talvanen)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2020, 11:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/37 "2020-04-18T11:30:12Z")
I am truly curious about one thing? Why would you ask a bunch of long time players about the new player experience instead of someone like me? You know someone who actually is new? Why doesn’t CCP go through their logs and find people who started say a month or so ago and actually subscribed? My two cents. Fix the Recruitment channels. I can’t tell you how often I have been threatened, harassed and just plain treated like dirt in that channel. Everything from “Me and my null sec alliance will gank you will you quit”, to literal hate speech. That channel is a pox on this game. Either moderate it, or close it. New players don’t need to log in to have some random Null sec player send them a mail filled with hate speech. I can assure you. I get that eve can be harsh, but talk about a turn off. Secondly if you really want new players to join corporations why do you make it so difficult? Is it so hard to have a part of the tutorial, say at the end have a window with quality new player corps? Break down a page or two into what these corps are about, vet them and show them to new players! If some one want’s to try to game that system drop the proverbial hammer on that corp or alliance. It’s not perfect but it would help. Like seriously I think people have forgotten how hard it can be for a new solo player to find and make friends. I would have liked a easy one click skill plan. I copy pasted the Eve uni magic 14 and such easy enough. If you’re a new player being able to look at a ship and go “Wow!! I want to fly that!!”, and make a click to train towards it would do a world of good. I’ve gotten lost in my skill que trying to figure out what I need for a ship and a fit I was linked. I slogged through and got the hang of it but man. It is NOT intuitive or easy to grasp at first. All in all the Tutorial is great for the mechanics of the game. It’s pretty lacking once you’re done that. Also fix the career agent who send you to find Kernite or whatnot. A new player has zero idea where to find it. There is no explanation you need to go find a system. Or just put the stuff in the rookie system in a spawn. I quit that tutorial at the time and now would rather not log in than mine. Maybe I am being dramatic, but that mission just needs to be massaged. I don’t know enough about the game to know if these suggestions are possible or would break things. All I know is these are MY ideas from MY experience. As always I am sure others have idea’s to. But you should probably ask the players you want to keep how to keep them rather than some long time player who is completely out of touch with what a new players faces. ---
**Author:** ![Darlo\_Kubika](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/darlo_kubika/32/178136_2.png) [@Darlo\_Kubika](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Darlo_Kubika)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2020, 12:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/38 "2020-04-18T12:16:10Z")
Who cares about the goon dominated CSM? Nothing good for non PVP players came out of it since it was founded… It’s just representing ONE group of players who elects themselves into it and CCP can use it as an easy excuse why to stay on the wrong course ‘the players want it this way’… Wrong to the core but conviniend for CCP… And i’m completely sure NO goon is botting…never ever…it’s blasphemic to state this… :-). ---
**Author:** ![darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/darkestkhan_eriker/32/390091_2.png) [@darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/darkestkhan_Eriker)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2020, 1:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/39 "2020-04-18T13:49:24Z")
> [@Telumus\_Talvanen](#): > > Fix the Recruitment channels They can’t be fixed. For long time recruitment channels were used as means to fish for war dec targets… hence you are now left with cesspool. > [@Telumus\_Talvanen](#): > > I’ve gotten lost in my skill que trying to figure out what I need for a ship and a fit I was linked. That is the easy part… hard part is knowing which skills will improve the effectiveness of your fit. (masteries are good indicator but not always helpful) ---
**Author:** ![Telumus\_Talvanen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/telumus_talvanen/32/194951_2.png) [@Telumus\_Talvanen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Telumus_Talvanen)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2020, 2:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/40 "2020-04-18T14:21:11Z")
Thanks for the reply. Had no idea about the Recruitment Channel. Good to know. And the skills. For sure that would be helpful. Has to be some way to help new players understand what they need in addition to the skills listed on the tin. ---
**Author:** ![Gleb\_Koskov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gleb_koskov/32/374138_2.png) [@Gleb\_Koskov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gleb_Koskov)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2020, 2:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/41 "2020-04-18T14:34:15Z")
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