# CSM 14 Second Summit Meeting Minutes **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** official, csm\ **Created:** [April 17, 2020, 5:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538 "2020-04-17T17:09:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Circumstantial\_Evidence](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/circumstantial_evidence/32/399551_2.png) [@Circumstantial\_Evidence](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Circumstantial_Evidence)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2020, 8:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/62 "2020-04-18T20:37:06Z")
> [@Faylee\_Freir](#): > > Look at the Keepstar in Perimeter… instead of it creating content it’s caused the groups in the Nullsec blue donut to blue even their enemies in Highsec for the sake of a trade consortium that has little risk of content or attack. As a non-bloc player I’m getting no piece of that pie. I’ll never be part of defending or attacking it. I’ve been there, given them a few broker fees, but also continue to patronize Jita 4-4 for items to sell and buy. But I will defend CCP’s “inaction” in this way: CCP has provided a sandbox for long empire gameplay. They rise, change, and some fall. What looks unbeatable today could develop a crack and fall to infighting. One member of the TTT coalition might start to feel they aren’t getting the tax percentage that they deserve. _(I can help: HORDE seems to be doing a majority of the work of pulling down market hubs started by individuals and small groups)._ What was fair when the fee-sharing deal was made, might not seem fair in the future. A few years ago Goonswarm made a number of arrogant mistakes which led to the rest of EVE banding together to evict them from Deklein. Their formerly rock-solid coalition lost members. While GSF are less likely to repeat mistakes of the past, and have been a stable presence in Delve since then, a new mistake they’ve never considered making before could take them low again. Since the “blackout” last summer, CCP has been continuing to twist various dials and also move some sand around in the box, to force established groups to make new decisions and possibly… new mistakes, in the game of empires. ---
**Author:** ![Faylee\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/faylee_freir/32/439750_2.png) [@Faylee\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Faylee_Freir)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2020, 9:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/63 "2020-04-18T21:13:06Z")
I agree that things can change suddenly but there’s a problem with that… across all areas of space were waiting for conflict to erupt out of thin air. There’s no intermediate conflicts and skirmishes to compliment the TTT. Horde are taking down structures that arent contested so the only content that is there is an FC pinging for a fleet that forms to kill a structure empty of pilots on any loss mail. Keepstars in Highsec we’re also a mistake. With the current server performance and TIDI issues the TTT will likely never fall unless it’s by the hand of a director-level betrayal. My point is that Nullsec now control any meaningful content or narrative because of this N+1 game they cried for. The smaller fish can dec the random corp or alliance to contest Fortizars and Azbels but it’s the same song and dance… no meaningful content outside of a smaller scale version of N+1 killing an empty structure. > **[Azbel | Nomads of Republic | Killmail](https://zkillboard.com/kill/83460271/)** > > (Nomads of Republic) lost their Azbel in Alentene (Verge Vendor). Final Blow by Houstons (G0P-ST0P) flying in a Rattlesnake. Total Value: 10,077,796,834.12 ISK This was killed on their door step and nothing was done. I can link hundreds of structure kills just like this. It’s N+1 or nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2020, 9:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/64 "2020-04-18T21:50:25Z")
> [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](#): > > Rorqual mining capacity was buffed and turned this ship, which originally was designed as boosting support ship, into virtually the only mining ship in null sec. As for Titans with Mining Lasers. Not only did they exist in the past as joke, but Rorqual tank was also buffed so ridiculously that it could tank titans. Someone clearly passed those stupid ideas on to CCP and CCP happily listened. > > As for the other ideas: I (don’t) trust your ability to see garbage when it is being presented to you. If not, why were you on the CSM if you could not judge properly? I was on the CSM because I got elected. Getting elected doesn’t suddenly give you judgment. It just means you got elected. When I say “buffing Rorquals” I mean buffing them beyond the state they were in back in 2018-2019, when I was on the CSM. This was the height of them being overpowered and STILL people wanted more. Titan mining lasers didn’t mean “slap existing mining lasers onto Titans” it meant specific ones designed for use by titans that could mine a ■■■■ ton. Like Doomsdays that could do moonpulls at a time. This is the type of stuff folks asked for. Completely game breaking ■■■■. I mean, I heard requests for Titans to be able to have point defense systems to kill subcaps farther than a smartbomb, I got folks asking for Keepstars that could move around a grid, the list goes on and on. You expect CSM members not to waste CCP’s time with nutty stuff that only one person cares about. ---
**Author:** ![Faylee\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/faylee_freir/32/439750_2.png) [@Faylee\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Faylee_Freir)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2020, 10:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/65 "2020-04-18T22:06:39Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > You expect CSM members not to waste CCP’s time with nutty stuff that only one person cares about. The examples you use do not equate to what I’m talking about. You were brought in a Discord server to hear the concerns and input from those that took part in said activity. Instead what happened was lobbying for something that almost exclusively benefits Nullblocs on their N+1 gameplay. What’s worse is that the people that this was designed for don’t utilize it. ---
**Author:** ![Litsea\_Reticulata](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/litsea_reticulata/32/328016_2.png) [@Litsea\_Reticulata](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Litsea_Reticulata)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2020, 10:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/66 "2020-04-18T22:09:45Z")
> [@Scoots\_Choco](#): > > On that note, have you even tried to reach out to any of the CSM members? They’re fairly easily accessible on r/eve, discord, twitter, in-game mails, etc. Steve is the only CSM I felt was independent enough to support and demonstrably so when activities in the 3rd party app space are included. Sadly, as highlighted in both these and previous summit notes, the rest do broadcast a myopic view. Brisc was the last CSM from 0.0 who pushed for changes outside home territory and had an interest in the numbers, look how well that turned out. Sad ---
**Author:** ![Circumstantial\_Evidence](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/circumstantial_evidence/32/399551_2.png) [@Circumstantial\_Evidence](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Circumstantial_Evidence)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2020, 10:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/67 "2020-04-18T22:18:12Z")
Brisc as CSM did as good a job of collecting and reporting feedback to CCP from a variety of sources, as I’ve seen in a long while. What CCP does, or can afford to do - with the feedback, is another matter. ---
**Author:** ![Ysonoko\_Lelexandrian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ysonoko_lelexandrian/32/188953_2.png) [@Ysonoko\_Lelexandrian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ysonoko_Lelexandrian)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2020, 11:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/68 "2020-04-18T23:08:09Z")
I’d imagine the bulk of highsec players are solo, or very small groups. Not likely you’ll see an “elected representative” for highsec. That’s the whole point of playing in highsec. You can just play the game and ignore the drama/politics of low/nullsec. That’s the appeal of highsec for me anyways. ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2020, 11:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/69 "2020-04-18T23:13:35Z")
> [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > I felt News flash, not everything revolves around your feelings. Why don’t you put some work into a highsec issues presentation and reach out to all of the CSM? Let them know you have worthwhile knowledge of the issue and that you can provide useful data and information about highsec. If you decided not to reach out to any of the CSM elected, then that’s your fault for not making your voice heard. ---
**Author:** ![Katyusha\_Lisa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/katyusha_lisa/32/176157_2.png) [@Katyusha\_Lisa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Katyusha_Lisa)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 12:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/70 "2020-04-19T00:34:58Z")
Wondered why the last few updates have seemed like a goonswarm wish list then i saw why ---
**Author:** ![James\_Baboli](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/james_baboli/32/408702_2.png) [@James\_Baboli](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/James_Baboli)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 1:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/71 "2020-04-19T01:28:33Z")
Warp to me is still even accepting alphas, though there is significant push for them to plex and get T2 guns ASAP. ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 1:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/72 "2020-04-19T01:43:41Z")
> [@Ysonoko\_Lelexandrian](#): > > Not likely you’ll see an “elected representative” for highsec. > > That’s the whole point of playing in highsec. You can just play the game and ignore the drama/politics of low/nullsec. That’s the appeal of highsec for me anyways. Then looks like the problem is solved already. If people want representation, vote. Don’t complain about lack of representation if no one cares to organize for it. ---
**Author:** ![Ysonoko\_Lelexandrian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ysonoko_lelexandrian/32/188953_2.png) [@Ysonoko\_Lelexandrian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ysonoko_Lelexandrian)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 2:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/73 "2020-04-19T02:18:15Z")
> [@Scoots\_Choco](#): > > Don’t complain about lack of representation if no one cares to organize for it. I think you meant that for someone else. But, I’ll bite. Hisec/solo players probably don’t care about being represented. We just want a stable and fun game to play. Personally, games are great for wasting away the hours in a fun way. I’m really not interested in being represented by anyone. I’d just like the development team to be a little quicker with the changes they have planned, and maybe not so secretive with vital details about coming changes. I can’t speak for all solo/hisec players. But, I just want the game to feel stable again. I could really care less about someone representing my interests, or points of view. I do that here on the forums, myself. ---
**Author:** ![Aphrodite\_Sexy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aphrodite_sexy/32/420261_2.png) [@Aphrodite\_Sexy](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aphrodite_Sexy)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 3:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/74 "2020-04-19T03:16:32Z")
This is such a good idea unironically, and I’m surprised this got no replies and only my like. ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 3:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/75 "2020-04-19T03:21:24Z")
> [@Ysonoko\_Lelexandrian](#): > > Hisec/solo players probably don’t care about being represented. Clearly they do, since they’ve been whining about it in this very thread. > [@Buoytender\_Bob](#): > > That every perspective on needed changes and balances were viewed from being NS (or LS /WH); which is not surprising since everyone outside of Steve on the CSM are affiliated in some ways with NS. Sad to see almost all examples used were about the effects on spaces outside of HS. What are the percentage of players per sec levels currently in the game? > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > reading this shows that the vast majority of the CSM members look at everything from a nullsec perspective. > [@Darlo\_Kubika](#): > > Who cares about the goon dominated CSM? > [@Max\_Deveron](#): > > none of you CSM folks know anything about HS then keep your mouths shut. etc. etc. Yet none of them will put in the effort necessary to organize and elect a CSM member into highsec. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 4:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/76 "2020-04-19T04:50:45Z")
> [@Scoots\_Choco](#): > > Clearly they do, since they’ve been whining about it in this very thread No… That’s not the complaint. The complaint is that the majority of the CSM currently treat highsec like trash. You have a current CSM member literally calling all miners in highsec bots. I mean even for you it’s reaching to defend that as a reasonable standpoint. ---
**Author:** ![Faylee\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/faylee_freir/32/439750_2.png) [@Faylee\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Faylee_Freir)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 5:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/77 "2020-04-19T05:23:25Z")
> [@Scoots\_Choco](#): > > Yet none of them will put in the effort necessary to organize and elect a CSM member into highsec. It’s not a realistic task that warrants the effort. Highsec isn’t solidified like Nullsec groups are. I think you’re ignoring this fact. Highsec has seen some candidates in the past: Psychotic Monk, Tora Bushido, Toxic Yaken and more. They get to make their appearances on the various talk shows and pod casts but it’s mostly out of curtesy I imagine. It’s just hard to compete with groups that put a splash page on their website telling you to go vote before you continue on to the site / forums. ---
**Author:** ![Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zhalyd_lyehin/32/358574_2.png) [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zhalyd_Lyehin)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 5:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/78 "2020-04-19T05:43:01Z")
🔴 > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > You expect CSM members not to waste CCP’s time with nutty stuff that only one person cares about. I expect CSM members to tell idiots like these to Eff Off. biomass and unsubscribe. And if CCP tells you to be more polite, to tell CCP the same. Dumb crap like this is what turned EVE into a crap show. ---
**Author:** ![Cypr3ss\_Deteis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cypr3ss_deteis/32/392947_2.png) [@Cypr3ss\_Deteis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cypr3ss_Deteis)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 6:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/79 "2020-04-19T06:22:14Z")
> [@Aphrodite\_Sexy](#): > > This is such a good idea unironically, and I’m surprised this got no replies and only my like. Ahh, because it’s _not_ a good idea. The issue with the proposed idea is it would be gamed by people & their alts. It’s that simple. Have a look into what happened when (iirc) FW pilots gained LP payouts based on the value of the ship killed (it was live for only a very short amount of time before it was changed), having “missions” assigned against other players would only lead to similar issues. Regards, Cypr3ss. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 6:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/80 "2020-04-19T06:27:18Z")
> [@Faylee\_Freir](#): > > The examples you use do not equate to what I’m talking about. You were brought in a Discord server to hear the concerns and input from those that took part in said activity. Instead what happened was lobbying for something that almost exclusively benefits Nullblocs on their N+1 gameplay. What’s worse is that the people that this was designed for don’t utilize it. I heard the concerns. CCP heard the concerns. They designed a different system. ---
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 7:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/81 "2020-04-19T07:01:20Z")
> [@Faylee\_Freir](#): > > Gobbins and Vily are happy with Highsec. I imagine they only care that they have the Keepstar intact to split profits among their consortium. Right, some of us remember a time there was a competition to their highsec hub, until Gobbins lobbied CCP into doing a very specific change to wardecs only for highsec to remove any further competition attempt. This bias and ill-will problem of the CSM will not get resolved unless CCP people start playing and watching their game in a substantial way over a longer period of time. They need to start developing their own qualitative opinions, numbers and statistics are not enough. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538.md?page=3) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538.md?page=5)