# CSM 14 Second Summit Meeting Minutes **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** official, csm\ **Created:** [April 17, 2020, 5:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538 "2020-04-17T17:09:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Kranyoldlady](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kranyoldlady/32/173331_2.png) [@Kranyoldlady](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kranyoldlady)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 8:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/82 "2020-04-19T08:07:18Z")
Goodmorning capsuleers of new Eden, I have ran incursions from the day they came to the game. I have seen many different changes to the game and to incursions since then. Knowing eve is primarily a pvp based sandbbox, incursion runners still only fight the AI. Speaking for myself incursions are the main reason i still play Eve Online. Not necessarily because its so challenging but more due to the way we do it, 40 people on teamspeak on a daily basis gives opportunities for some amazing friendships, when you ask around, most people are here not for the isk, most are already rich and tend to give away modules or isk to new players to help them out. For me it is not about the isk versus reward. It is about the people, the friendships and the conversations one has to help people that have a difficult time right now due to the way the world is changing. I know null sec people always have something to cry about what happens in high sec. This was something that came with incursions i guess. I did not understand it back then, i do not care today. Even though someone in the CSM or a CCP employee may have a thought again to reinvent the wheel, right now i can still run incursions because it is part of the game so i will, i like the people i do it with and i like hanging out with my friends the way i do. Everyone wants to play the game the way they want, it is how a sand box works. Now on the risk versus reward, that is just a dead horse to be beaten to kingdom come as an as old as the the way to Rome reason, that has been used so many times it gets boring. In incursions the risk is explained, i think nicely by Billy Comancho, more risk is added by CCP,s latest patch due to moving to and from incursions. When CCP decided in their infinite wisdom to cut the incursions down to 1 spawn every 36 hours every one was bitching, including me, now many months later i do have to admit, one focus is more content, more contesting, more fun, the 36 hours thing i still don’t like, but one adapts to what we get right? The best thing in my humble opinion is for CCP take some time, not only talk to the big groups in nullsec that hold all the cards, but also talk to those that know incursions and what they mean as a whole for a player to step up to go in to null sec or low sec. You can ‘bind’ people to keep playing your game for years by good game play, but mostly you ‘bind’ them by the groups they end up in, if they find a group they like, they stay, this is where incursions do play a role, since, although we are just high sec carebears, 85+% of the people ( if not more) have alts in null sec and or low sec too. TLDR; i know everyone has an opinion about what happen in high sec, but then again most of those people are also in incursions in the same high sec, this is not only a risk versus reward thing, this is about a people coming together thing, specially in days of corona, it may be essential to keep it as it is, or even up the rate of high sec spawn to accommodate the players staying at home 24/7. If anything (as corny as this sounds) most of us do try to be a friendly voice of calm and stability in times of change for those in need. i hope this helps to give a different look on this Fly safe, Fly reckless, Stay save in RL 07 K ---
**Author:** ![DragoFire](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dragofire/32/257926_2.png) [@DragoFire](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DragoFire)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 8:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/83 "2020-04-19T08:24:15Z")
> [@CCP\_Dopamine](#): > > Anyone who would like to chat with other pilots about specific sessions, either to provide more ideas or to share their point of view, is encouraged to create a separate forum thread in the [CSM Jita Park section](https://forums.eveonline.com/c/council-of-stellar-management/jita-park/) hate to say this, but this was a complete joke! I have a number of friends within eve just saying what the ■■■■, do any of these CSM member have any idea of the game or interested in improvement of EVE other than for their own self interests! general feeling among those I fly with is to disband the CSM completely, remove the whole concept and replace it with CCP sent Email surveys. CCP already do surveys as it is, but generalized ones. If CCP were to do proper targeted surveys to account holder email addresses and did proper data analyzing of the results they might for a better feedback that that of the CSM’s self centered objective goals. these survey if worded correctly would do better while not giving to much away. I’m sure there are some creative people in CCP to do this. again time to disband the CSM and remove it for the good of EVE’s future. ---
**Author:** ![elitatwo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elitatwo/32/373473_2.png) [@elitatwo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/elitatwo)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 9:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/84 "2020-04-19T09:56:13Z")
OMG who didn’t find the “mute” button for the last CSM minutes in the ‘ship unbalance’ section? Jeebus, when someone clearly has no clue about space ships, then this person should not make any comments on more un-balancing ships. ---
**Author:** ![Maxis\_Rus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/maxis_rus/32/390278_2.png) [@Maxis\_Rus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Maxis_Rus)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 10:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/85 "2020-04-19T10:09:06Z")
Hello, I’m a new player and would like to share my opinion. What I don’t understand and what annoys the game: 1. Performing agent missions, someone constantly flies in and tries to force me into PvP. It is clear that the one who is trying to force me to do this is in PvP Fit, and I am in PvE Fit. And I am in advance in a losing situation. 2. The same applies to mining in systems with a high security status. 3. Why always, before attacking, the attacking player looks at the statistics of the player he wants to attack at [https://zkillboard.com](https://zkillboard.com). What on equal terms is he afraid to attack?))) 4. Перевозка грузов - тут я думаю начал перевозить грузы позаботься о безопасности. Вопросов нет. But what I don’t understand at all is why, performing the level 4 agent missions on Rattlesnake, 41 Catalyst flies in and kills him. After which the player receives a message - thanks for your Rattlesnake, which you provided for training our beginners. But the bottom line is that the Rattlesnake player has only been playing the game for six months, and of the 41 Catalyst players, there are no new players, all with at least 2 years of experience. Is this not a mockery? Why is the player who sent the message not banned forever? I don’t understand this! And I don’t want to understand! ---
**Author:** ![Maxis\_Rus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/maxis_rus/32/390278_2.png) [@Maxis\_Rus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Maxis_Rus)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 10:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/86 "2020-04-19T10:13:45Z")
- 4Transportation of goods - here I think began to transport goods to take care of safety. No questions. ---
**Author:** ![Galaxy\_Raid](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/galaxy_raid/32/217870_2.png) [@Galaxy\_Raid](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Galaxy_Raid)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 10:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/87 "2020-04-19T10:15:01Z")
I’ve played more than ten years and this forum post is likely the most engagement I’ll ever have with the CSM > [@Buoytender\_Bob](#): > > That CCP needs to add rewards and tools for the PvP hunters. Good look selling that to most HS players. My general experience is it costs me time and isk, while providing me with very little fun as generally you just run into a blob. Hours I could spend flying around the galaxy to get a new ship, fit it and return to the fight? Or just go to the combat systems on sisi? FAR more rewarding. When I died all I had to do was go dock, tweak the fit and undock again. Much more fun. Hours fighting, not hours travelling only to get blobbed. > [@darkestkhan\_Eriker](#): > > hard part is knowing which skills will improve the effectiveness of your fit. One of the best features of eve fitting tool (does it even still exist?) Was being able to right click the modules and “change affecting skill.” In simulated fits right clicking should give you the option to “view affecting skills.” All nicely hyperlinked with current level displayed. > [@Scoots\_Choco](#): > > Don’t complain about lack of representation if no one cares to organize for it. I think you missed the point. High sec couldn’t give a toss about electing a CSM. I for one haven’t voted once in ten years. Being a filthy casual gamer each log in decides whether I continue my eve career. Deciding to stay subscribed based on whether I can do what I want to do today. There’s no mechanics in game I’d change other than some UI elements, if I don’t like it I just don’t do it. After my accounts all expired, I decided to try triglavian invasions and resubbed. Our fleet was losing loot because of an exploit. I docked and asked for a refund. Not once did it cross my mind to contact a CSM; or even bother to file a bug report. Another: PI. I had quite a bit of fun in it’s early days setting up a super efficient set of planets. I looked at it recently out of nostalgia to find I get taxed my bollocks off because POCOs are now player owned. I didn’t immediately think “oh I must elect a CSM to complain about this to CCP.” I just extracted the skills. What I’m trying to get a cross is we’re not invested in this enough to feel the need to lobby CCP. > [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > You have a current CSM member literally calling all miners in highsec bots. I do wonder the genuine demographics. My experience generally is that they’re young adults looking for a bit of a distraction from studying or a little bit of interaction when running a night shift at a gas station; that sort of thing. > [@Kranyoldlady](#): > > incursions are the main reason i still play Eve Online. Pretty much the same here. > [@](#): > > **CSM Minits:** > Incursions are one element that CCP plans to address in regards to risk vs. reward in the foreseeable future. CCP Rattati asks what the room thinks about them. > > 1. There are different motivations for clearing incursions, depending on where they spawn. > 2. People agree that Incursions can be improved. There is no risk in highsec, and players are using incredibly expensive ships to run them. > 3. Elitism and requirements for fleets with queues and limits on participation are a problem. > 4. A suggestion was to flag players running them as suspects. 1. OK 2. Expensive ships on a predictable route and predictable timetable given that there’s only one spawn now? You need us to fleet you too so you can warp on us or what? I wish I had intel this good on a guy I want to blap. Incursioners get ganked all the time, not only stragglers on gates to sites but people pop all the time while travelling. 3. Pretty vague. I will say though that having to turn over all my account information to another player to join them, or have tech 2 guns trained to join someone else. I know which barrier to entry I’m going with. Can I borrow your Titan for an upcoming fight? What’s that, you want me to meet some skill requirements and fit it sensibly? You elitist asshole! 4. And how much engagement do low sec incursions get? What I want to know is, why are new players going to incursions at all if other content in eve is just wonderful top to bottom? I think CCP will make a mistake here. You do not make bad options better by making good options worse. You just end up with 2 ■■■■ options. ---
**Author:** ![Litsea\_Reticulata](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/litsea_reticulata/32/328016_2.png) [@Litsea\_Reticulata](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Litsea_Reticulata)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 11:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/88 "2020-04-19T11:44:53Z")
> [@Scoots\_Choco](#): > > News flash, not everything revolves around your feelings. True, though that was my personal viewpoint, being expressed, dismiss it, dismiss most of this forum content. > [@Scoots\_Choco](#): > > Why don’t you put some work into a highsec issues presentation and reach out to all of the CSM? Let them know you have worthwhile knowledge of the issue and that you can provide useful data and information about highsec. No doubt the CSM needs another crazy mailing them a powerpoint on shifting non-consensual PvP out of high security space, removing moon mining, limiting a system to 1 active market module and throwing those with poor security status into criminal NPC corps so they can’t hide behind the shelves of caldari provisions forever… The war declaration changes were a big move in the right direction, which is why I am still here, disappointingly I see that there are ideas of nerfing high security space incursions, which is the only gameplay I really participate in. Its like the whole room forgot that incursions already got a nerf when the number of active incursions was reduced. > [@Scoots\_Choco](#): > > If you decided not to reach out to any of the CSM elected, then that’s your fault for not making your voice heard. There are some I have reached out to, others I have not. With Steve going and Brisc no longer interested, I think its more likely I don’t vote, if there is no ‘protest vote’ candidate. The meeting minutes are probably the best platform for the CSM to make their case for me, or destroy it ( Villy ) entirely. Though his piece about military organisations in eve was salient, a corporation can’t succeed beyond a certain size without having a IT guy to set up 3rd party services. CCP really needs to add a political/voting mechanic to high risk actions at an alliance level, like building ownership, timer changes, large wallet withdrawals and yes, ACL’s on hangars. The bit about global taxes was funny. Miners ( unless they do moons ) can’t really be automatically taxed at the source and explorers do not yield a dime. The only people who get taxed are ratters and folk who do project discovery all day. Hell, even an automated ‘SRP’ tax to be deducted from corporation member’s wallet balances every week/month would be more useful than a global tax rate… ---
**Author:** ![Scaugh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scaugh/32/25051_2.png) [@Scaugh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scaugh)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 12:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/89 "2020-04-19T12:48:55Z")
The same inaction argument can be said about POCOs, especially the ones in HS. Overtime a very large number of them have been killed, replaced and transferred to a very small number of alliances. A quick look over the killmails on Zkill will show you this. [https://zkillboard.com/ship/2233/highsec/](https://zkillboard.com/ship/2233/highsec/) POCOs were originally meant to be a constant content generator, this is no longer the case. ---
**Author:** ![Scaugh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scaugh/32/25051_2.png) [@Scaugh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scaugh)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 3:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/90 "2020-04-19T15:04:03Z")
Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Chan\_aar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/chan_aar/32/377560_2.png) [@Chan\_aar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Chan_aar)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 3:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/91 "2020-04-19T15:33:13Z")
_Ideally, items should be soulbound with a short expiry time to encourage players to use it_ The term **soulbound** does not belong in Eve. ---
**Author:** ![Elwha\_Lynx](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elwha_lynx/32/246048_2.png) [@Elwha\_Lynx](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elwha_Lynx)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 3:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/92 "2020-04-19T15:41:09Z")
> [@Telumus\_Talvanen](#): > > I am truly curious about one thing? Why would you ask a bunch of long time players about the new player experience instead of someone like me? You know someone who actually is new? Why doesn’t CCP go through their logs and find people who started say a month or so ago and actually subscribed? I love your post… great observations, questions and some good suggestions. I’m a rather old player but see the recruitment channel on a scouting alpha I run and don’t see the hate stuff in there often… but if it exists think it could probably be handled with some sort of trusted agent player group. ---
**Author:** ![Elwha\_Lynx](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elwha_lynx/32/246048_2.png) [@Elwha\_Lynx](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elwha_Lynx)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 4:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/93 "2020-04-19T16:59:18Z")
> [@DragoFire](#): > > general feeling among those I fly with is to disband the CSM completely, remove the whole concept and replace it with CCP sent Email surveys. The large blocks would just use the same tactics directed at those surveys as they use to get themselves elected. Think all it would really change is CCP would loose the opportunity to get deeper insights through explanations from those holding opinions. Also think we should give CCP more credit–they know who those large block leaders are and can judge for themselves the merits for the whole of the game versus selfish interest. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 6:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/94 "2020-04-19T18:15:55Z")
> [@Maxis\_Rus](#): > > Is this not a mockery? Why is the player who sent the message not banned forever? I don’t understand this! And I don’t want to understand! Yes, it’s a mockery. They’re not banned because that behavior is not bannable. ■■■■ talk between players is part of what makes EVE EVE. What all new players need to accept when they start playing this game is that no matter where you are in EVE, you are never 100% safe if you are undocked. As soon as you undock, you must expect that there’s a chance, perhaps quite small, but still a chance, that someone is going to attack and kill you. Highsec, lowsec, nullsec, wormholes, doesn’t matter - there’s always a chance. Once you accept that, you’ll start being more mentally prepared for it, and you’ll be better able to accept it if you get caught and die. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 6:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/95 "2020-04-19T18:17:03Z")
> [@Galaxy\_Raid](#): > > I’ve played more than ten years and this forum post is likely the most engagement I’ll ever have with the CSM Reach out and talk to them. Most of them are perfectly willing to talk to players they don’t know but who have concerns. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 6:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/96 "2020-04-19T18:19:32Z")
> [@Chan\_aar](#): > > The term **soulbound** does not belong in Eve. It doesn’t, but it’s a gamer term that most folks recognize the meaning of. It’s easier to say “soulbound” than “one-per-account-non-tradeable.” ---
**Author:** ![Darlo\_Kubika](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/darlo_kubika/32/178136_2.png) [@Darlo\_Kubika](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Darlo_Kubika)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 7:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/97 "2020-04-19T19:08:55Z")
Eve is not dying…CCP is currently commiting suicide by killing its own game… ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Ronuken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/steve_ronuken/32/373894_2.png) [@Steve\_Ronuken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Steve_Ronuken)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 7:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/98 "2020-04-19T19:36:50Z")
Yep. As I’m a lame duck, I’m a lot less useful to talk to than I used to be, but I still talk with folks. I don’t do much direct outreach, but there are a _lot_ of eve players, and most of them don’t want someone bothering them. They’re capable of coming to us when they want to. ---
**Author:** ![Chan\_aar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/chan_aar/32/377560_2.png) [@Chan\_aar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Chan_aar)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 9:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/99 "2020-04-19T21:29:53Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > It doesn’t, but it’s a gamer term that most folks recognize the meaning of. It’s easier to say “soulbound” than “one-per-account-non-tradeable.” Whatever you want to call it, it does not belong in Eve. ---
**Author:** ![Litsea\_Reticulata](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/litsea_reticulata/32/328016_2.png) [@Litsea\_Reticulata](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Litsea_Reticulata)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 9:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/100 "2020-04-19T21:47:40Z")
> [@Chan\_aar](#): > > Whatever you want to call it, it does not belong in Eve. So implants for attributes and skills that cannot be unplugged should be removed? Edit: Forgot ship skins. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 10:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538/102 "2020-04-19T22:21:16Z")
> [@Chan\_aar](#): > > _Ideally, items should be soulbound with a short expiry time to encourage players to use it_ > > The term **soulbound** does not belong in Eve. You do know that internally CCP use (or at least used for the majority of it’s existance) traditional MMO descriptions such as Dungeons for sites right? EVE at it’s heart is a very traditional MMO. Also they already exist in a way due to skins. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538.md?page=4) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-14-second-summit-meeting-minutes/233538.md?page=6)