# CSM 15 - All You Need to Know **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** official, devblog, csm\ **Created:** [April 21, 2020, 7:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548 "2020-04-21T19:36:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 9:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548/24 "2020-04-21T21:25:46Z")
Sorry, forgot the sarcasm again. I thought someone like you would get by now… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Wander\_Prian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wander_prian/32/394208_2.png) [@Wander\_Prian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wander_Prian)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 9:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548/26 "2020-04-21T21:27:24Z")
I’d like to point out that even though wormholes have a miniscule amount of the player-base living and playing there, we still manage to get a CSM-representative in almost every year and we have very different types of corps around. We’ve still understood that getting A representative is going to help our cause more than complaining that there is no point in voting at all. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 9:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548/27 "2020-04-21T21:27:37Z")
With the sheer amount of stupid in the world, sarcasm is never a good idea in text unless you can be sure it’s unmissable. ---
**Author:** ![Sho\_Riagl\_Khardula](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sho_riagl_khardula/32/292422_2.png) [@Sho\_Riagl\_Khardula](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sho_Riagl_Khardula)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 9:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548/28 "2020-04-21T21:31:12Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > It’s more fun to watch highsec not even _try_ to get themselves organized and talk to one another about the CSM? That’s a fair point. Perhaps your remark, so early in the discussion, may act as a catalyst (of the non-ganking variety). ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 9:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548/29 "2020-04-21T21:36:42Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Lol, yeah because you’ve only got thousands of members on dedicated comms channels being given copy-paste scripts to vote by a group feediing them SRP backed by huge amounts of botting and RMT. Well, if you’re going to go trotting out the old nonsense that CCP’s released pie chart and lifetime ban records last year openly _disproved_, you go on and have fun. But don’t expect anyone to take you seriously until you start coming up with _actual_ evidence, and not just rumors and tinfoil. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > It pretty much does. They just have to submit it. Yes, very good. **They** still have to actually vote. **They** also still have to login to the website on each account and **choose** to run the script. It’s hardly ‘zomg, it’s so automated nobody can avoid using it’. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > You exploit and manipulate the system you have. Yeah, welcome to all of human history. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Because they’ll totally admit it publicly, right? **Awesome**. More tin-foiling. :thumbsupparrot: > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I’ve seen people being told that SRP will get removed if X player doesn’t get into the CSM That’s a load of horse-crap. Nobody in their right mind would push that crap, and nobody in their right mind would buy it. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Depends on the type of persuasion. You’re supposed to win people over by having decent campaigns. Yeah, that’s called organizing and messaging. Exactly the things I’m saying highsec needs to get off their butts and do, while you sit there and whine about how impossible it is for people like ExookiZ, Brisc, Steve, Olmeca, or Mike to _ever_ get elected. > [@Sho\_Riagl\_Khardula](#): > > Perhaps your remark, so early in the discussion, may act as a catalyst (of the non-ganking variety). Let’s hope so. Honestly, highsec needs to either get involved, or stop whining about what happens when they don’t. As Brisc points out in his article, the threshold last time for the first-ballot cutoff was _three thousand votes_. If HS is 60+% of the game, then someone who’s motivated and gets their message out should be able to do that. I have absolutely no doubt Mike’s looking at that number and thinking ‘yeah, that’s in reach’. ---
**Author:** ![Logan\_Zauber](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/logan_zauber/32/315864_2.png) [@Logan\_Zauber](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Logan_Zauber)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 9:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548/31 "2020-04-21T21:39:55Z")
Wait! WHAT? THERE’s A BRIBE??? Who do I contact to get mine? Somehow I got overlooked the past few years! ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 9:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548/32 "2020-04-21T21:41:23Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Because the voting system favours blocks of votes for the same lists It actually doesn’t. It favors ‘get enough people to X threshold of first-choice votes’. Again, Brisc breaks down the math of it all pretty well in his piece, and points out that nobody got any votes off the Imperium ballot below Innominate last time around, purely because of **first-vote** counts. If we _really_ wanted to game the system, we’d set up 3 different versions of the ticket, and have people vote each one with 1/3 of their accounts. ---
**Author:** ![darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/darkestkhan_eriker/32/390091_2.png) [@darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/darkestkhan_Eriker)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 9:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548/33 "2020-04-21T21:45:21Z")
> [@Wander\_Prian](#): > > I’d like to point out that even though wormholes have a miniscule amount of the player-base living and playing there, we still manage to get a CSM-representative in almost every year and we have very different types of corps around. We’ve still understood that getting A representative is going to help our cause more than complaining that there is no point in voting at all. And that is a good point - at the end of the day input is needed from all areas of space, regardless of how big block it is. ---
**Author:** ![Wander\_Prian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wander_prian/32/394208_2.png) [@Wander\_Prian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wander_Prian)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 9:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548/34 "2020-04-21T21:51:27Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > One. Whoop-de-doo. Still results in pretty much everything tilting towards nullsec. I hear these surgical strike changes are wonderful for wormholes. One is still more than zero. Since you’ve read the CSM-minutes, you saw that the ONE person we had voted in to the CSM had a whole session dedicated to wormhole-space where they represented the issues that wormhole-space have. What comes to wormhole-space and changes, we do what we always do, adapt. That is what you do to survive in Eve. ---
**Author:** ![Sho\_Riagl\_Khardula](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sho_riagl_khardula/32/292422_2.png) [@Sho\_Riagl\_Khardula](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sho_Riagl_Khardula)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 9:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548/35 "2020-04-21T21:53:37Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Let’s hope so. Honestly, highsec needs to either get involved, or stop whining about what happens when they don’t. As Brisc points out in his article, the threshold last time for the first-ballot cutoff was _three thousand votes_ . If HS is 60+% of the game, then someone who’s motivated and gets their message out should be able to do that. I have absolutely no doubt Mike’s looking at that number and thinking ‘yeah, that’s in reach’. Agreed. I would however like to see any highsec moblisation prepare to play the long-game. I’m not certain how, if at all, the new 3 term limit will impact future elections, but it certainly offers additional scope for any candidate who is actually willing to commit to the long-game. [1] It’s a big ask, but there are definately a few candidates able to provide the focus. Whether, without a small team around them, they can raise the necessary awareness and motivation in time for CSM15 I’m not so sure. [1] Perhaps as far as CSM17 which, if I’m not mistaken, is when the 3-term cooldown will first hit the ballot papers. ---
**Author:** ![Insidious\_Sainthood](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/insidious_sainthood/32/383447_2.png) [@Insidious\_Sainthood](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Insidious_Sainthood)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 9:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548/37 "2020-04-21T21:57:55Z")
I, Insidious Sainthood, being of a sound (for New Eden) mind, do hereby announce my candidacy for CSM 15. I will read eve email and way every suggestion proffered. I will fight for all areas of New Eden, with emphasis on Low Sec and the players that support it directly or indirectly. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 10:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548/39 "2020-04-21T22:01:40Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > All that showed was that you didn’t actively bot in your space. Mmmmm, tasty tasty tin-foil… > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > But it makes it far easier to convince them. I think you’re still missing the point here that nullsec candidates have a far lower bar to hit than highsec candidates No, I’m not missing that at all. That’s _the whole point of organization_. It makes things easier. That’s why I’m saying highsec needs to get their candidates organized—not necessarily from a gameplay perspective, but from a political ‘get out the message and the votes’ one, definitely. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Every year there’s all this banging on about how devastating it will be if the coalitions don’t get their vote list in. lolololololol. Yeah, ok. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > But that doesn’t change the fact that every year the results are disproportionately in favour of null groups, because there’s no possible way for highsec players to coordinate to that same degree. ‘The results of the democratic process are skewed toward the people who get organized, so I’m gonna throw a fit when someone suggests we should get organized’. K. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > You can’t honestly suggest that nullsec group do not have a massive advantage I haven’t even begun to suggest that. I’ve said highsec needs to get off its butts, rather than just whining and saying ‘Why not just save all the time and effort and just appoint whoever the null groups want appointed?’ Do the ■■■■■■■ work. How is that dishonest? How is that not saying that organization brings advantages? It **absolutely does**. Quit yer bitchin’ and get to work… or just quit yer bitchin’. It doesn’t help you, and it doesn’t hurt us. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > But that’s assuming that other null blocks don’t exist and don’t also vote for similar candidates and that votes for other areas of space are not split. If goons put goons first then other null groups, TEST do the same, pamfam do as well, then you are basically doing exaclty what you’ve suggested there. You _really_ need to familiarize yourself with how the STV system works. Add it to the list of ‘get off yer butt’ items. ---
**Author:** ![Wander\_Prian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wander_prian/32/394208_2.png) [@Wander\_Prian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wander_Prian)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 10:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548/40 "2020-04-21T22:08:11Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > And how has that worked out for you? They’ve nuked mining in wormholes and crippled faxes, focussed most of their effort on how to get more engagement in null and thrown in brokers fee changes that prevent the only competition to the Perimeter citadel from being effective. -Yes, mining-changes affect the whole game but this is needed to get the game into a healthier place. -Faxes needed crippling, especially in wormholes-space. If you think they were broken in nullsec, you have no understanding how oppressing they were in wormhole-space. -We just had a whole event based on wormhole-space that increased the number of wormholes appearing everywhere, especially in other wormholes and nullsec, thus increasing the amount of content available to us. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Yeah, and I get that. You’re basically saying that you can’t do anything about the disproportionate representation of null so you just adapt to negative changes in your space. I totally agree which is why my first post was to question why we even go through the time and effort of this stupid vote. Just stick the candidates in that we know already are going to win and be done with it. What I’m saying that at least we are trying and have a way to get viewpoints and issues from our part of Eve said directly to the devs. Instead of being so deep in your own hatred and negativity that you give up without even trying. Yes, those who vote have a chance to get their part of space represented in the CSM. A shocker, I know. Instead of being a cynical tinfoil-eater, how about you focus that energy into getting enough people voting on the same person to get them into the CSM? Or maybe even multiple? But you won’t even try, because it’s always easier to complain and not even try than to do the work required to get over the line. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Ronuken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/steve_ronuken/32/373894_2.png) [@Steve\_Ronuken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Steve_Ronuken)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 10:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548/41 "2020-04-21T22:09:03Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Hell, Steve was on the goon ballot last year. If you think that made _any_ difference, you don’t understand the voting system. The Goon ballot was exhausted getting their first 3 people on. I got _no_ votes from that. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 10:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548/42 "2020-04-21T22:13:33Z")
He’s not gonna believe you, Steve. It doesn’t matter how many people explain it to him, as long as anyone agrees with someone from null, he won’t let himself believe they’re not lying. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Ronuken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/steve_ronuken/32/373894_2.png) [@Steve\_Ronuken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Steve_Ronuken)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 10:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548/44 "2020-04-21T22:23:29Z")
You’re ignoring the negative halo effect. Like the one that’s hit you. And, of course, halo effects are _very_ difficult to quantify. Which makes them perfect for the argument you’re making. Got to love how I managed to get elected in the years I wasn’t on anyone’s ballot though. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 10:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548/46 "2020-04-21T22:38:22Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Standard response from botter. Got any actual evidence, or just more tin-foilery? Tell you what: Go ahead and report me. If CCP can find any evidence that I’m botting, they should ban me. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > But you seem to be missing out that that level or organisation is simpl ynto possible for highsec players. Missing? No. Rejecting. It is _absolutely_ possible for highsec players to communicate with one another and talk about ‘hey, this guy’s running for CSM, we should consider actually voting’. You’re just looking for an excuse to whine and throw a tantrum. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > even he points out that if you’re nto in a null coaliition you’re at a disadvantage. You keep trotting this out like I’m saying anything different. I’m not. Of course they’re at a disadvantage. And they’ll _stay_ at a disadvantage until… > [@Arrendis](#): > > highsec needs to get off their butts > [@Arrendis](#): > > highsec needs to either get involved, or stop whining about what happens when they don’t. > [@Arrendis](#): > > highsec needs to get their candidates organized > [@Arrendis](#): > > highsec needs to get off its butts > [@Arrendis](#): > > Do the ■■■■■■■ work. > [@Arrendis](#): > > Quit yer bitchin’ and get to work NOBODY is saying highsec isn’t at a disadvantage. What everyone **but you** is saying is ‘well, that’s what happens when you don’t get involved and don’t talk to one another. You want to change that, roll up your sleeves and get to work’. **YOU** , on the other hand, are the one throwing up your hands and saying ‘there’s no point, we can’t ever have nice things, you guys will win anyway, **GOD WE SUCK SO BAAAAAAAD** ’. Enough. Either do what you need to do, or don’t, but jesus, _stop whining_. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Why though? Why should they get of their butts and work incredibly hard only to not get fairly represented anyway because your groups have massive advantages straight out of the gate and have botting and RMT empires backing them? A) **Once again** : if you’ve got actual evidence of ‘botting and RMT empires’, **PLEASE** , for the love of god, give it to CCP so that can be dealt with. If you don’t? Stop spreading crap you can’t back up just because it lets you feel victimized by people you _want_ to believe are cheating, and take some frikkin’ responsibility for your own goddamned fate. My god, you get more pathetic every time you bleat that nonsense out. B) I dunno, maybe—and I realize that you won’t believe this, because you can’t possibly let yourself believe it, but—just _maybe_ some of them actually want to do more than just roll over and throw a tantrum about how unfair life is and mommy and daddy aren’t holding their hands to tell them that _yes_, Lucas, you’re _just_ as special as anyone else. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > That’s incredibly easy to say when you’re already sitting on a massive advantage and have to do literally nothing to be voted in. Because _we did the work_. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > And bear in mind, I’m not looking to be helped. No, you’re looking to throw a fit about how horrible people are for doing the work they needed to do, and how unfair it is that you can’t have everything they get. Edit: anyway. I have to actually go play MMO stuff with people, so, you know, seriously, get over your butthurt already, hey? Out. ---
**Author:** ![Penance\_Toralen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/penance_toralen/32/244089_2.png) [@Penance\_Toralen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Penance_Toralen)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 10:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548/47 "2020-04-21T22:54:57Z")
Perhaps because much of high sec is amateurs, uninterested in committing a professional level. At least a quarter does not come the forums. Unaware of anything other than the next asteroid, mission or jump gate. When you learn to play chess, you have to learn the game twice. The first time to learn how to move the pieces, and second time to learn how the other side of board moves theirs. You are as blind of the other side, as they (high sec) are of you. Not much of a difference when its indifference. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Kell](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lucas_kell/32/393556_2.png) [@Lucas\_Kell](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lucas_Kell)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 10:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548/48 "2020-04-21T22:56:01Z")
(post withdrawn by author, will be automatically deleted in 24 hours unless flagged) ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Azariah](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mike_azariah/32/512626_2.png) [@Mike\_Azariah](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mike_Azariah)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 10:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548/49 "2020-04-21T22:59:50Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > If HS is 60+% of the game, then someone who’s motivated and gets their message out should be able to do that. I have absolutely no doubt Mike’s looking at that number and thinking ‘yeah, that’s in reach’. It is and it is for more than one hisec person. Whether I am said person or not remains to be seen but it CAN be done. Has been done. But never by folks who accept think ‘why bother?’ You have to run, you have to talk to folks. you know, kind of what I am doing right now m [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548.md?page=3)