# CSM 15 - All You Need to Know **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** official, devblog, csm\ **Created:** [April 21, 2020, 7:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548 "2020-04-21T19:36:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Australian\_Excellence](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/australian_excellence/32/367782_2.png) [@Australian\_Excellence](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Australian_Excellence)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2020, 1:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548/70 "2020-04-22T01:02:41Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > Two of the current CSM members, both of whom are senior leadership in Goons, were flagged by CCP as being “high sec predominate players” because their main accounts spent significant amounts of time in highsec, primarily in one system that was used as a jump off point for nullsec roams into Catch. > > They weren’t really highsec players, by any stretch of the imagination, but that’s what the data showed. Unless I’m mistaken, there isn’t thousands of players being nominated for CSM. You can literally spend 5 minutes looking at a player and see what they do in the game, why would choosing these players have to rely on looking at what a database flags them as lmao? > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > It’s not foolproof. Let the players convince the voters what they do and know. Then it will always be stacked for null players since the CSM isn’t really visible for most of the people who play the game, much less the campaigns. The vast majority of votes will be for whoever the large null alliances tell their members to vote for ---
**Author:** ![Ember\_Fireheart](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ember_fireheart/32/278556_2.png) [@Ember\_Fireheart](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ember_Fireheart)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2020, 1:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548/71 "2020-04-22T01:02:44Z")
What if voting only went to 20 people, then CCP interviewed them and chose 10 of them. They can game the voters but they can’t game CCP. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Ronuken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/steve_ronuken/32/373894_2.png) [@Steve\_Ronuken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Steve_Ronuken)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2020, 1:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548/72 "2020-04-22T01:05:51Z")
The last election was something like 64 people. Where do you cut off? It’s a huge can of worms. ---
**Author:** ![Ember\_Fireheart](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ember_fireheart/32/278556_2.png) [@Ember\_Fireheart](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ember_Fireheart)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2020, 1:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548/73 "2020-04-22T01:32:05Z")
Ok what if, CCP said that 1 csm would be the supreme csm who had much more influence than a normal csm but in order for that to happen they would need to have more than 10x the votes than the 2nd highest person. This will force all the people with multiple accounts to use all their votes on their favorite guy instead of being able to use them to game the system and get multiple people in. And then say afterwards that there is no surpreme csm it was just to get the cheaters to use up all their alt votes. Haha ok I have no idea how to stop the cheaters. ---
**Author:** ![Sgt\_Ocker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sgt_ocker/32/270881_2.png) [@Sgt\_Ocker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sgt_Ocker)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2020, 1:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548/74 "2020-04-22T01:36:17Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > It’s up to the voters to figure this out. When you have 2/3rds of the player population not even knowing what a CSM is - What’s to figure out.,. Stop the rot with CSM elections - 1 vote per player. Instead of 1 vote per account. You “might” see different results. Less overall voters for sure but a far more balanced election. ---
**Author:** ![Ember\_Fireheart](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ember_fireheart/32/278556_2.png) [@Ember\_Fireheart](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ember_Fireheart)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2020, 1:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548/75 "2020-04-22T01:37:42Z")
No way to enforce that unfortunately unless CCP asks for ID numbers and cross checks it with your country xD which is not viable. Or some heavy penalty for voting with multiple accounts owned by the same person to dissuade them like an account suspension for a few months or something, but that’s a lot of checking work for ccp time they don’t have. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Azariah](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mike_azariah/32/512626_2.png) [@Mike\_Azariah](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mike_Azariah)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2020, 1:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548/76 "2020-04-22T01:40:09Z")
Re Assigned slots for the Various parts of eve In a word? No In more words? I have made it a POINT to try a lot of parts of Eve, fought in a null war, lived in a hole, gone on small roams. Done manufacturing and owned a POS. I choose to identify as a Hisec guy and most would agree but some players do get to move around. Others live in one area to support their love of another. You want a balanced slate? The start researching the folks running. I welcome the chance to work with all aspects of Eve but I will not claim to know the intricacies of all of it. I know the New Player Experience. I have a fair grounding in a lot of hisec activities. Each of you could probably say something similar, if you have be playing long enough. You tried some stuff and then settled into what you like to do. A LOT of candidates may show up and it is up to you (and me) to decide upon what makes a decent slate to vote for. If you care only for your style of play then go ahead and vote a slate, see what sort of balance that gets you. If you want a lot of voices? Well some work may be required to find out who is a good person to represent things you do not care about or even agree with. Me? I plan on talking to anyone who wants to talk with me and going out and finding the groups that do care about hisec, new players and the like. Getting elected as a hisec players is not easy, but it is not impossible either. m ---
**Author:** ![Sgt\_Ocker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sgt_ocker/32/270881_2.png) [@Sgt\_Ocker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sgt_Ocker)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2020, 1:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548/77 "2020-04-22T01:40:16Z")
CCP knows exactly who owns how many accounts. It would be quite simple for them to limit the vote to 1 per player. ---
**Author:** ![Ember\_Fireheart](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ember_fireheart/32/278556_2.png) [@Ember\_Fireheart](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ember_Fireheart)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2020, 1:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548/78 "2020-04-22T01:49:20Z")
> [@Sgt\_Ocker](#): > > CCP knows exactly who owns how many accounts. It would be quite simple for them to limit the vote to 1 per player. What if a player has 2 accounts he opens the one from his pc and another from his laptop each have a vpn leading through a different country, the characters from both accounts never interact with each other never send money or contracts to each other and never fly in the same system at the same time then what lol. That player would be able to vote with 2 accounts easily and some players have 100 accounts to vote with. The only way would be to trick the abusers into wasting their alt votes which is not an easy task. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2020, 1:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548/79 "2020-04-22T01:56:03Z")
> [@Australian\_Excellence](#): > > Unless I’m mistaken, there isn’t thousands of players being nominated for CSM. You can literally spend 5 minutes looking at a player and see what they do in the game, why would choosing these players have to rely on looking at what a database flags them as lmao? How? Killboards? Employment histories? There’s plenty that’s not captured in publicly available information, especially when it comes to PvE. There has to be an objective criteria applied by CCP or else there’s too much room for “they didn’t let me run because they didn’t like me” type nonsense that would turn the community team into an elections office and just generate a ton of complaints. Not worth it. > [@Australian\_Excellence](#): > > Then it will always be stacked for null players since the CSM isn’t really visible for most of the people who play the game, much less the campaigns. The vast majority of votes will be for whoever the large null alliances tell their members to vote for Any election system is going to be geared towards those who can best organize. There have been plenty of non-nullsec based CSMs in the past, there will be in the future. Yes, it’s a much harder climb for them, but it’s not impossible. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2020, 1:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548/80 "2020-04-22T01:57:22Z")
> [@Sgt\_Ocker](#): > > When you have 2/3rds of the player population not even knowing what a CSM is - What’s to figure out.,. > > Stop the rot with CSM elections - 1 vote per player. Instead of 1 vote per account. > You “might” see different results. > Less overall voters for sure but a far more balanced election. Welcome to the real world, where many, if not most, elections are decided by fewer than half the qualified voters. I have no problems with one person one vote, but that’s not the system they’ve chose to adopt. ---
**Author:** ![Xuxe\_Xu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuxe_xu/32/464660_2.png) [@Xuxe\_Xu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuxe_Xu)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2020, 2:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548/81 "2020-04-22T02:16:22Z")
@Xenuria - will you be running this time? ---
**Author:** ![Australian\_Excellence](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/australian_excellence/32/367782_2.png) [@Australian\_Excellence](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Australian_Excellence)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2020, 2:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548/82 "2020-04-22T02:23:17Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > How? Killboards? Employment histories? Yes, that’s a fairly good indicator alone for 95% of eve players. > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > There has to be an objective criteria applied by CCP or else there’s too much room for “they didn’t let me run because they didn’t like me” type nonsense that would turn the community team into an elections office and just generate a ton of complaints. Not worth it. You’re focusing too much on edge cases that are more difficult to ascertain. The vast majority would probably be very easy to say with just a glance, especially if they’re running and say what they do in the game. > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > Any election system is going to be geared towards those who can best organize. There have been plenty of non-nullsec based CSMs in the past, there will be in the future. Yes, it’s a much harder climb for them, but it’s not impossible. That’s true, but this is a video game, not a national election. Interference by CCP to have a more rounded CSM might be whats needed for the health of the game. Is the idea of CSM to get in members of your alliance so they skew the game in your favor? Or is it to make the game better as a whole? or neither? ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2020, 2:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548/83 "2020-04-22T02:27:30Z")
> [@Ember\_Fireheart](#): > > Aryth is a null sec guy everyone knows this, I have never run into him while pvping in FW space have not seen him roaming around ever there and been playing since 2007 Neither has anyone in nullsec. **CCP** , in fact, had Aryth’s activity pegged as _Highsec_ because that’s where the majority of his time logged in is—on his market alts, because he’s a finance guy. Aryth, Innominate, and Merkelchen pointed this out to CCP in the first summit of this term. It’s right there in the minutes, and is the reason CCP revised their tracking methods. During his _third_ term on the CSM. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2020, 2:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548/84 "2020-04-22T02:28:25Z")
> [@Australian\_Excellence](#): > > You’re focusing too much on edge cases that are more difficult to ascertain. The vast majority would probably be very easy to say with just a glance, especially if they’re running and say what they do in the game. I think the vast majority of EVE players have done more than one thing during their careers. I spent the vast majority of my time in the game in high sec before moving to null sec. I still run missions in high sec, too. Could I qualify as a high sec player? It would have to depend on how they defined it. I probably spend a couple hours every week in high sec, even thought I’m primarily a null sec player. > [@Australian\_Excellence](#): > > That’s true, but this is a video game, not a national election. Interference by CCP to have a more rounded CSM might be whats needed for the health of the game. > > Is the idea of CSM to get in members of your alliance so they skew the game in your favor? Or is it to make the game better as a whole? or neither? The point of the CSM is for the players to get to choose who represents them to CCP, not for CCP to pick who gets to represent the players. From the beginning in the wake of the T20 scandal, they’ve always wanted the players to decide who gets to serve. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2020, 2:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548/85 "2020-04-22T02:32:19Z")
> [@Ember\_Fireheart](#): > > Ok what if, CCP said that 1 csm would be the supreme csm who had much more influence than a normal csm You don’t seem to have any idea what the CSM actually _do_. ‘Much more’ than… nothing? The CSM don’t have any real influence with CCP unless they’re unanimous, because CCP shops their ideas around the CSM, and—like anyone with an idea they like and want to hear ‘this is a good idea’—as long as even _one_ person is willing to validate their preconceptions, everyone else can tell them it’s insane, and they’ll decide that one guy is right. Doesn’t matter if it’s an area where that person has any expertise or experience. Steve could agree with them about the mechanics of managing an alliance of 30,000 characters, and they’d take that as all the proof they need that they’re right. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2020, 2:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548/86 "2020-04-22T02:34:25Z")
> [@Ember\_Fireheart](#): > > What if a player has 2 accounts he opens the one from his pc and another from his laptop each have a vpn leading through a different country, the characters from both accounts never interact with each other never send money or contracts to each other and never fly in the same system at the same time then what lol. You’d also need to attach them to different email addresses _and_ pay for them with different credit cards. Will some people slip through on 1 or 2 accounts? Sure. Will the people with 20, 50, _400_ accounts have them all set up on individual emails and cards? No. ---
**Author:** ![Australian\_Excellence](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/australian_excellence/32/367782_2.png) [@Australian\_Excellence](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Australian_Excellence)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2020, 2:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548/87 "2020-04-22T02:38:41Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > I think the vast majority of EVE players have done more than one thing during their careers. I spent the vast majority of my time in the game in high sec before moving to null sec. I still run missions in high sec, too. Could I qualify as a high sec player? Are you running on a highsec platform and do you spend most of your time actively playing in highsec? Then sure. 🤷‍♂️ > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > The point of the CSM is for the players to get to choose who represents them to CCP, not for CCP to pick who gets to represent the players. From the beginning in the wake of the T20 scandal, they’ve always wanted the players to decide who gets to serve. But whats the point of the representatives? For what reason are they there to ‘serve’? If it’s just to serve their own interests, whats the point? ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2020, 2:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548/88 "2020-04-22T02:54:45Z")
> [@Australian\_Excellence](#): > > But whats the point of the representatives? For what reason are they there to ‘serve’? > > If it’s just to serve their own interests, whats the point? They’re there to represent all the players. They represent players, not areas of space or play styles. ---
**Author:** ![CCP\_Darwin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ccp_darwin/32/464013_2.png) [@CCP\_Darwin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/CCP_Darwin)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2020, 3:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548/89 "2020-04-22T03:09:57Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > whoever Whomever. (Sorry, just trying to get into the spirit of this thread.) [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548.md?page=3) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548.md?page=5)