# CSM 15 - All You Need to Know **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** official, devblog, csm\ **Created:** [April 21, 2020, 7:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548 "2020-04-21T19:36:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2020, 1:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548/131 "2020-04-22T13:17:00Z")
This talk about “democracy” and “election”, “fair voting system” is totally pointless. An internet beauty contest including, alts, and buying of votes is by no means democratic nor fair. You can call it somewhat fair and democratic if you force the same rules on voters which you put on candidates, real names, one person, one vote. So long, CCP may just scrap the “election” part and pick the people they like most. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2020, 2:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548/133 "2020-04-22T14:17:31Z")
> [@Sgt\_Ocker](#): > > It is also why the CSM will never be representative of “Eve”. > Just another example of laziness on the part of CCP - Near enough is good enough.,. I don’t really think it’s laziness. I think there is a case to be made for allowing each omega account a vote. In the end, each omega account represents money being paid to the company, whether through a subscription or through plex. Those are revenue generating accounts for CCP, and it makes sense that they want the people who are most active playing the game - the ones with the most active Omega accounts - to be the ones who are choosing who is on the CSM. Yes, the outlier are the skillfarms, and they have certainly played a role in elections in the past, helping to get some candidates across the finish line who may not have won otherwise. But that’s the EVE Online universe, too - buying votes in a game where scamming and ganking are okay kind of makes sense. Like I said, I’m fine with one person one vote, but the reality is that even with one person one vote, the winners will still likely be the big nullsec bloc candidates who have more real life people organized to vote. It might have an impact on the handful of people and candidates with 20+ accounts that can vote, but I don’t know if that, alone, is worth the extra trouble. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2020, 2:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548/134 "2020-04-22T14:31:20Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > Anyway, I think a balanced CSM would have 1 seat available to represent each of these different segments of Eve: > > Wormhole > Null Sec > Low Sec > High Sec > Faction War > PvP Content > PvE Content > Market Trade > R&D Manufacturing > Resource Processing And that’s the path to getting a literally all Goons CSM. All of the big blocs have players that fit every single one of those categories, and with their greater organization, bullet voting from players in those play styles because they don’t understand the STV, and a large number of no-show candidates who don’t do anything beyond put their name on the ballot, that’s the recipe for one bloc winning every seat. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2020, 2:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548/135 "2020-04-22T14:42:13Z")
> [@CCP\_Dopamine](#): > > Having different perspectives on the CSM is one of the great benefits the program offers, and we have been actively investigating various models of how we could achieve a broader representation of players on the council. Unfortunately, due to several challenges around the ability to correctly identify candidates and voting mechanisms, without introducing too many error-prone rules, we could not do it this time around. However, I am still very much interested in exploring this in the future, so lets the conversation going on that front! There is always going to be a perception that certain groups are over samples on the CSM. In the end, any democratically elected system is going to benefit the groups who are organized, even if there are categories of seats that are restricted to a certain playstyle. There is no foolproof way to determine what areas of the game a certain players has expertise in or understands. All of the in-game data metrics, as we’ve shown, can be flawed, and given that the vast majority of EVE players spend time dabbling in almost all of the various aspects of the game at some point, your best bet is making sure that the CSM members elected are ones who can be professional, actually play the game, and care enough to provide constructive feedback. Any definition of who plays what playstyle is going to have some inherent subjectivity to it, and that will just lead to disputes and accusations of favoritism. The other thing is that you don’t want or need the community team to turn into a CSM elections office for a month and a half every year. The current system is relatively easy to maintain and the requirements to run are also minimal. Creating specific seats for specific playstyles will drastically increase the amount of work you have to do, will create another friction point with people complaining. With the current system, players either like the idea of a CSM and will vote, or they hate it and they don’t vote. With more than 30k ballots cast in the last few elections, it’s clear that a motivated part of the player base is fine with the current system and is willing to participate. That’s pretty good for a focus group. Making changes designed to chase a mythical increase in turnout or player participation is exactly the trap that election “reformers” fall into in real life, constantly tinkering with the system and confusing the electorate while having little to no impact on turnout. ■■■■. This is too long. If I get reelected, I should do my presentation on “election systems” for you guys, lol. ---
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2020, 2:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548/136 "2020-04-22T14:57:21Z")
@Brisc_Rubal @CCP_Dopamine The problem with representation is filtering, coloring of the raw input. Would it be beneficial to create a database of playstyles with what people are actually doing in game? There should be a certain format, where people can describe their playstyles as accurate as possible (especially which mechanics are used in which way). I know some parts people will treat opsec, but the most common ones would be written down in public, others can be made confidential only for CCP-eyes-only. Then every change you plan can be checked against this database of playstyles, and rules established that a change which destroys a certain playstyle has to be thought over very carefully. ---
**Author:** ![Yalezorn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yalezorn/32/195555_2.png) [@Yalezorn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Yalezorn)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2020, 2:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548/137 "2020-04-22T14:57:52Z")
How exactly do you expect any of them to enforce that command? ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2020, 2:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548/138 "2020-04-22T14:59:32Z")
> [@Tipa\_Riot](#): > > Would it be beneficial to create a database of playstyles with what people are actually doing in game? There should be a certain format, where people can describe their playstyles as accurate as possible (especially which mechanics are used in which way). I know some parts people will treat opsec, but the most common ones would be written down in public, others can be made confidential only for CCP-eyes-only. > > Then every change you plan, can be checked against this database of playstyles, and rules established that a change which destroys a certain playstyle has to be thought over very carefully. That sounds like a large amount of work to put together just for the purposes of a CSM election. ---
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2020, 3:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548/139 "2020-04-22T15:00:27Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > That sounds like a large amount of work to put together just for the purposes of a CSM election. Has nothing to do with election, but helping CCP to get less dependent on CSM input. EDIT: But other candidates may pick that up, who think this is worth doing. Said that, this is more something CCP to initiate. ---
**Author:** ![Insidious\_Sainthood](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/insidious_sainthood/32/383447_2.png) [@Insidious\_Sainthood](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Insidious_Sainthood)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2020, 3:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548/140 "2020-04-22T15:10:37Z")
Seems to be a lot of players feel their voice won’t be heard. I created a survey pre-CSM 15 announcement, that lets players comment on the game anonymously. Please take a moment to fill it out. I would love to know who players from all over New Eden play Eve Online. > **[State of the Game Questionnaire](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdACQ50L6Fjpb0FWAO5E6hs666lyTCDFm1lue4_xaYrxkacqA/viewform?usp=sf_link)** > > This is a quick questionnaire about YOUR feelings on the state of Eve Online. Please be concise. Thank you for your time, Insidious Sainthood CSM 15 Candidate RvB - Blue Republic ---
**Author:** ![Nephew\_Ruckus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nephew_ruckus/32/199845_2.png) [@Nephew\_Ruckus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nephew_Ruckus)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2020, 4:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548/142 "2020-04-22T16:41:14Z")
It is time for the CSM to go away! I acknowledge the hard work and dedication of the past/current CSM members. I have honor and respect for their skills and dedication. However I look at the CSM as just another customer in the great EVE ONLINE restaurant. I am a meat eater in that restaurant! The CSM are sophisticated vegans or gourmet dinners. (Null sec blocks/ giant alliance cartels or even real life nationals!) Now when CCP screws up my order and burns my steak. I want back the ability to speak out to the CCP management (chef) directly! I do not need the chef (CCP) to direct me to the table of the aforementioned vegans and gourmet patrons to address my complaints! I don t need them (CSM) speaking for me!!! I am a OMEGA high security player who does not want nor need the drama of a mega group! (OMG I am ALT !) Most players are more similar to me then CSM members! I PAY EVE ONLINE to entertain me. I do not recognize CSM’s grand utopia vision! ( I do not want the CSM ordering me a plate of hot steaming TOFU, while telling me you should eat this anyways!) I cannot help but think EVE ONLINE management is tied up entertaining the CSM members with their agenda or their “ideas“ at my enjoyment expense! I want EVE ONLINE to start making new missions! Perhaps without having to check with the CSM they could come up with a surprise or two to make game play interesting again. (I was so into the Amarr throne crises, the assignation of empress Jamal the 1st and suddenly nothing!!!) EVE could be is in real trouble right now. The current world Pandemic will stretch real world customers’ real cash reserves! Suddenly a game that alienates it cash paying base is a recipe for disaster! If EVE wants to escape the fate of Star Wars Galaxies, The Sims Online ect ect. Eve needs to put the professionals back in charge of development! Right now is not the time to have a bunch of well meaning amateurs who have agendas promoting their alliances members plexing position! I cannot help but think it will help EVE ONLINE real life bottom line to prote the solo player again! I recommend EVE ONLINE put a mandate on the ballot called CAPTAIN DUNZEL! The fact only 40% of eligible pilots bothered to vote should speak volumes. No disputing the 13% increase participation but was it because more solo minded pilots said screw this and sent their destination to DOOM HEIM? Captain Dunzel would represent a NO more CSM council!!! We have seen Britexit/Donald Trump in Democratic elections overthrow the so called experts. Let see what happens when pilots are allowed ALL OPTIONS in a CSM vote to improve their game play! ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2020, 4:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548/143 "2020-04-22T16:58:03Z")
> [@Gowa\_Hyasyoda](#): > > Hey, how about a vote for players to also choose the dissolution of the CSM? > > I think this would be the best way to get more players to vote for/against the CSM and have a better consensus of what ALL people want not just those invested that motivates them to vote their players into CSM. > [@Gowa\_Hyasyoda](#): > > It’s about representing democracy, right? > > This way everyone has a choice. Let’s see if you can even garner enough support with this via your votes first. ---
**Author:** ![Insidious\_Sainthood](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/insidious_sainthood/32/383447_2.png) [@Insidious\_Sainthood](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Insidious_Sainthood)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2020, 5:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548/144 "2020-04-22T17:13:49Z")
I’m confused. I have never seen a dev say “go talk to to the CSM.” I have personally rescued devs after 60+ mins of devs talking with A SINGLE player at meets. I have seen them respond personally on Twitter discord reddit and in person. I have never seen the CSM as a dev firewall. ---
**Author:** ![Buoytender\_Bob](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/buoytender_bob/32/374377_2.png) [@Buoytender\_Bob](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Buoytender_Bob)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2020, 6:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548/146 "2020-04-22T18:37:26Z")
Some issue with your questionnaire on the specificity of the questions. For example in regards to what you mostly do: Combat as a choice. Vast difference between mission running and PvP, yet no distinction can be made. Need to redo to make the questions and their answers more accurate. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2020, 6:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548/147 "2020-04-22T18:42:14Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > CCP can easily see player accounts and know which one is most active as well as what content they engage in the most. That’s what they did to create our ‘2019 Year In Eve’ video’s. You’d think so. And yet check the minutes from the first summit of CSM 14. > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > I think there is a case to be made for allowing each omega account a vote. In the end, each omega account represents money being paid to the company, whether through a subscription or through plex. So the people who can throw the most money at the election win? C’mon, man, isn’t that already enough of a problem _offline_? Do we really want that here? You don’t need to be ‘active’ in the game. You just need to make enough to throw up a bunch of PLEX for 1 month and poof, instant influence. > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > And that’s the path to getting a literally all Goons CSM. Yeah, off the top of my head, I can think of people for each of those seats: Kathy Merk Qicia Warr Me John Hartley Sarin Aryth Jay Noms. Not, you know, that most of us are crazy enough to want the gig. > [@Nephew\_Ruckus](#): > > Now when CCP screws up my order and burns my steak. I want back the ability to speak out to the CCP management (chef) directly! Congratulations! These forums, reddit, and twitter all exist! So does the in-game ticket system and the account website feedback system! You’ve always had that ability. > [@Nephew\_Ruckus](#): > > (I was so into the Amarr throne crises, the assignation of empress Jamal the 1st and suddenly nothing!!!) Uhm… are you _high_? Here’s what’s developed in that storyline since Jamyl was killed: On the Amarr side: **The entire capital overhaul that created Force Auxiliaries happened.** ← This was a direct response to Jamyl’s titan getting alpha’d. The Succession Trials took place, where teams of players determined who took the throne. The Blood Raiders have attacked over a dozen worlds in Khanid, Aridia, Domain, and the Republic. A radical and particularly hard-line (and probably insane) segment of Khanid nobility has reached the highest levels of Imperial power. (Along the way, they used artillery bombardment on civilians, causing the Federation and Republic to enact sanctions against the Empire.) Empress Catiz I has reorganized the Amarr Empire. As a result, Lord Arrach Sarum has declared a full-scale planetary assault on the planet of Floseswin IV, leading to significant fighting on the planet and what is now a 6-month ‘emergency summit’ from CONCORD where the Empire is saying this is all about the sanctions while FW pilots kill each other in space above Floseswin IV. On the Drifter side: Literally the entire Triglavian arc. They were introduced with those ‘Death Ball’ Drifter fleets of damaged battleships, which eventually were revealed to have been fighting the Trigs in Abyssal space. Suddenly nothing? Abyssal deadspace and the Trig invasion is all part of that same story arc. ---
**Author:** ![Dunk\_Dinkle](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dunk_dinkle/32/319804_2.png) [@Dunk\_Dinkle](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dunk_Dinkle)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2020, 6:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548/148 "2020-04-22T18:43:46Z")
Howdy all! **Regarding the calls for a more varied CSM based on playstyle** Yes, it’s an interesting idea but difficult to actually carry out. When you sit down and really look at it, it’s difficult to categorize a person into a single ‘playstyle’. This is a key problem. For myself, from CCP’s data, I am literally the most Null Sec player on the CSM based on my named account. However, I am also the alliance executor of a high sec group with hundreds of players. Would I qualify as a high sec candidate on that? Also, I do a significant amount of industry and interact with the market a lot. Would I qualify as an industry candidate on that? There are many that would say I am “clearly a null sec candidate” but it’s actually difficult to create an objective method to measure that. Looking at the wider picture, creating specific slots would allow gaming of the system from multiple angles, leading to even less diversity. I do think that the CSM needs more diversity of opinion, but “democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…” **Regarding the CSM election** I am not running for reelection. I am happy to discuss the CSM or offer advice to any candidates if they are interested. ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2020, 6:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548/149 "2020-04-22T18:54:07Z")
> [@Dunk\_Dinkle](#): > > I am not running for reelection. Why not? I feel the answer from someone on the CSM already would be an education in the CSM itself. ---
**Author:** ![Dunk\_Dinkle](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dunk_dinkle/32/319804_2.png) [@Dunk\_Dinkle](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dunk_Dinkle)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2020, 6:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548/150 "2020-04-22T18:55:46Z")
> [@MB\_ThePhotographer](#): > > Why not? I feel the answer from someone on the CSM already would be an education in CSM itself. [Regarding CSM 15](http://dunkdinkle.com/regarding-csm-15/) ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2020, 7:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548/151 "2020-04-22T19:02:51Z")
Thank you for your service. I can certainly understand your position. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![TW0](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tw0/32/168406_2.png) [@TW0](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/TW0)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2020, 7:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548/152 "2020-04-22T19:42:51Z")
![vote](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/2/a/2acc638864c63d8258be475479d34cae3fbbdc75.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2020, 7:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548/154 "2020-04-22T19:46:22Z")
CCP doesn’t listen the CSM or common sense for that matter. Stop blaming the CSM for all of EVE’s problems… [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548.md?page=6) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-15-all-you-need-to-know/234548.md?page=8)