# CSM 16 - All You Need to Know **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** csm, csm16\ **Created:** [April 14, 2021, 2:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-16-all-you-need-to-know/305598 "2021-04-14T14:28:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Nolak\_Ataru](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nolak_ataru/32/258421_2.png) [@Nolak\_Ataru](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nolak_Ataru)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2021, 10:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-16-all-you-need-to-know/305598/145 "2021-04-16T22:08:17Z")
Well I have been out for 2+ years. My last experience with goons and wormholes, aside from using them to teleport across the galaxy, was watching Hole Squad from afar. ---
**Author:** ![bluelysian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bluelysian/32/423769_2.png) [@bluelysian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/bluelysian)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2021, 8:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-16-all-you-need-to-know/305598/146 "2021-04-17T08:32:21Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > > [@Baatin\_Chaikai](#): > > > > figure out what idea could suppot my playstyle. > > Kinda irrelevant, since the CSM doesn’t have the power to do _anything_. Anyone coming onto the CSM with an agenda and promises of ‘I will do XYZ’ is full of crap and has no idea what they’re talking about. The CSM can’t make changes. All they can do is talk to CCP devs and give their advice. In the end, the devs still decide what’s happening. So what bothers you with seting up stonger represantative election system instead of %70 percent null sec aliances repesent the Whole eve online players??? Election sytem is BROKEN. Most people doesnt even trust to CSM… CSM only stands ther with block votes of their own null aliances ! everybody knows that… Are you trying to trick kidos ??? for a vein ?? you talking and you are believing what are you saying ! and your clap clap friends Brisc rubal claimed he knows high sec here in these forums once upn a time… In turn he prooved he had no idea with things he said totall clueless… Why are you advocating here?? constantly supressing peoples opinons with nonsense constantly ?? ---
**Author:** ![bluelysian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bluelysian/32/423769_2.png) [@bluelysian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/bluelysian)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2021, 8:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-16-all-you-need-to-know/305598/147 "2021-04-17T08:36:31Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > One thing we’ve seen—and had documented—in the past is that the CSM is _only_ effective when they’re united. When all but one of the CSM tell CCP ‘this is a bad idea and here are all of the reasons why, including hundreds of pages of data and charts explaining it all out in painful detail’ and there’s _one guy_ saying ‘I have no idea what I’m talking about, but this sounds AWESOME’… > > CCP believes the one guy who validates what _they_ already want to do. > > Your playstyle? The CSM has nothing to do with it. The CSM can’t _support_ it. What you really want are CSMs who’ll talk to the players and figure out whether or not CCP’s intentions will _screw_ your playstyle, and then all come together to tell CCP to avoid doing that. thanks for inputs @Arrendis also you have yourself approved that… not only election system broken but Also WHOLE CSM idea is BROKEN ! awsome \o/ ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2021, 12:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-16-all-you-need-to-know/305598/148 "2021-04-17T12:31:47Z")
> [@bluelysian](#): > > So what bothers you with seting up stonger represantative election system instead of %70 percent null sec aliances repesent the Whole eve online players??? First, there’s the simple unfeasibility of it all. How can you set aside seats for ‘high sec’ candidates when you can’t even reliably guarantee those candidates will _be_ from highsec? And let’s say you _do_ get a dedicated HS guy who isn’t Mike or Steve (I dunno if Steve will ever run again, but I who knows, he _might_ be that kind of masochist). Two months into his term, friends of his who’ve started playing convince him to join them in Pandemic Horde. Or he gets bored, and goes into J-space. Or his corp goes to Lowsec for FW. How do you _keep_ him in highsec? Let’s say he _stays_ in highsec, because he’s basically a Jita trader. Are you sure he knows a damned thing about HS exploration or mission-running? Does he even _care_? How do you know Gobbins hasn’t hooked him up with just 1% of the TTT money to be a puppet on the CSM? This is, after all, EVE Online. Backstabs and shady dealing isn’t just common, it’s _literally_ one of the marketing strategies for the game. Now, let’s say _all_ of that could be worked around. You’ve got to be able to reliably verify that this guy is _exclusively_ in HS (because let’s face it, even if he’s day-tripping into some other part of space, that means his gameplay isn’t in HS), and isn’t on the payroll of one of the null or j-space groups’ HS arms (which we all have). Except… _you_ don’t… CCP does. When’s the last time you saw CCP give themselves extra work for very little gain? You think it’s gonna happen this time? Second, there’s the effort and organization involved. Mike and Steve are well-known among the HS folks who pay attention to the CSM. They’ve got name recognition. The only other HS folks who’ve had that kind of name recognition on their own merits have been Chribba and Gevlon, and of those, Chribba wouldn’t suck for CSM, but I don’t even know if he plays anymore. Gevlon… god, elect a guy who believes _any_ social activity is a lie and everything in life comes down to ‘how does this profit me in measurable, $$$-oriented ways?’ There’s a great idea. But that’s the kind of jackasses HS would elect. You know why? Because that’s the kind of self-serving jackass who’d put in the work. It takes a _lot_ of work to get that kind of name recognition. It takes _even more_ to maintain it for years and get political campaigns organized—and that’s what running for the CSM is, after all. Who’s gonna do all that work? Someone who _wants_ to be on the CSM, and the vast majority of people who _want_ to be on the CSM shouldn’t be allowed anywhere near it. People who want power—even completely illusory power that exists only in their delusion of what the position entails—should almost never be trusted with it. So you need people you _know_ that you can trust. When we put candidates from the Imperium on our slate, they’ve been vetted. We know them. We know they can be trusted on the CSM. That’s not ‘they can be trusted to do things for us’, either. They’re under NDA, we have literally _no_ way to know what they’re saying to CCP, and the whole damned game is interconnected. So we need to be able to trust our CSM reps to be trying to make sure the _whole game_ is healthy. If HS is horribly neglected and broken, people don’t stay long enough to get to null. If LS is completely screwed up, our shipping routes are screwed, availability of some resources is borked, faction module supply and hull supply goes south… Everything’s connected, and often in a lot of ways that CCP doesn’t understand. So you need people you can _trust_ to do the right thing for the _whole game_. Because if they’re not doing right by the whole game, they’re not doing right by you, either. Organized groups of people can vet candidates. Disorganized groups… can’t. You just don’t talk to one another enough, you don’t have any paper trail, any history of dealing with candidates from HS, hell, you probably _only_ know them because they’re running for CSM. So you’re more prone to running candidates that have no business being in the mix in the first place. Finally, organized groups can get out the vote. This is the big ‘why HS doesn’t _already_ have more representation’. You guys don’t vote. If you can’t get off your asses to be involved in the process, why should you benefit from it? Look, I get it. I get that you want dedicated HS representation, and I understand why you want it. I understand that you wanting it isn’t an unreasonable thing, even. I want all my real-world financial worries to be taken care of, forever. That ain’t gonna happen, neither. > [@bluelysian](#): > > Why are you advocating here? Because the process is best served when people are clear-eyed and realistic about what the results _can_ be, in the first place. > [@bluelysian](#): > > thanks for inputs @Arrendis also you have yourself approved that… not only election system broken but Also WHOLE CSM idea is BROKEN ! Except it’s not. The ‘whole CSM idea’ is a player-elected focus group. That’s not broken. You want more HS representation, start trying to get people in HS organized. Just don’t be surprised when the a-social types who mostly play EVE as a single-player game… don’t care, and don’t help. ---
**Author:** ![Tosadur\_Boloskarl](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tosadur_boloskarl/32/415945_2.png) [@Tosadur\_Boloskarl](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tosadur_Boloskarl)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2021, 4:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-16-all-you-need-to-know/305598/149 "2021-04-17T16:58:48Z")
Now that, Sir, is a WONDERFUL answer. You have my vote. (CAN I vote? I don’t know. New dog here.) ---
**Author:** ![bluelysian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bluelysian/32/423769_2.png) [@bluelysian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/bluelysian)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2021, 5:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-16-all-you-need-to-know/305598/150 "2021-04-17T17:04:27Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Except it’s not. The ‘whole CSM idea’ is a player-elected focus group. That’s not broken. You want more HS representation, start trying to get people in HS organized. Just don’t be surprised when the a-social types who mostly play EVE as a single-player game… don’t care, and don’t help. when i last checked EvE Online was sandbox game … And every sociopath, psychopath, narc, anti social… and what so ever you can classify has equal rights when i check last time … what you are telling here is … Oh there is an election in the country… let’s remove everybody out of the table who cannot organize… Only people who is part of the cartels represent Players… People who doesnt organise … doesnt deserve to be presented is that it??? ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2021, 6:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-16-all-you-need-to-know/305598/151 "2021-04-17T18:45:45Z")
> [@bluelysian](#): > > Oh there is an election in the country… let’s remove everybody out of the table who cannot organize Why cant they organise? ---
**Author:** ![bluelysian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bluelysian/32/423769_2.png) [@bluelysian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/bluelysian)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2021, 7:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-16-all-you-need-to-know/305598/152 "2021-04-17T19:31:22Z")
They dont like organised ■■■■ they like improvising… and some fascist mindset believes that people who choose to not to organise doesnt deserved and have right to be presented … ( i have been thinking its sandbox game means people choise their own paths ) ---
**Author:** ![Tursiops\_Truncatus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tursiops_truncatus/32/232426_2.png) [@Tursiops\_Truncatus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tursiops_Truncatus)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2021, 7:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-16-all-you-need-to-know/305598/153 "2021-04-17T19:49:45Z")
The CSM are worthless and only represent the big alliances. The CSM should be removed from EVE just like Rattati and his manifesto. Rattati and the CSM have drove away cash paying customers and forced them to unsub. How can Rattati lie and say he is trying to make EVE better when Rattati has told loyal cash paying customers that, if you don’t like what he has done to EVE than quit! Rattati is disrespectful to those that were loyal to EVE for more than a decade. Rattati took away game play that had been part of EVE since day one. People spent money on game play and time on training skill to become a better player only to have Rattati change the fundamentals of game play so much that he has made years of cash paying customers skill training null and void. Rattati and the CSM are a rotten plague that must be removed from the game. I wont spend one cent of my hard earned cash on this pile of ■■■■ that Rattati and the CSM have created. ---
**Author:** ![bluelysian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bluelysian/32/423769_2.png) [@bluelysian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/bluelysian)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2021, 7:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-16-all-you-need-to-know/305598/154 "2021-04-17T19:55:31Z")
Isnt that guy FPS game fan and developer ?? Fffs :))havent seen any project finished and successed in his hand … if im wrong please enlightened :))) CSM is nothing else that null aliances hug to CCP everybody knows that … wake up boys … this game is not only about nullblocks ---
**Author:** ![Tursiops\_Truncatus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tursiops_truncatus/32/232426_2.png) [@Tursiops\_Truncatus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tursiops_Truncatus)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2021, 8:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-16-all-you-need-to-know/305598/155 "2021-04-17T20:02:25Z")
> [@bluelysian](#): > > Isnt that guy FPS game fan and developer ?? Fffs :))havent seen any project finished and seceeded in his hand … if im wrong please enlightened :))) Rattati’s stated on OZ’s youtube channel that everything he has worked on, failed. Why else would Pearl Abyss give him the job promotion? It was not for Rattati’s track record so it has to be that Rattati was the only one who would be Pearl Abyss’s yes man and do the dirty work of converting EVE into a pay to win scam. The CSM are as worthless as Rattati. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2021, 8:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-16-all-you-need-to-know/305598/156 "2021-04-17T20:34:06Z")
> [@bluelysian](#): > > what so ever you can classify has equal rights when i check last time Yup. Totally equal rights: you’ve got the right to do _whatever you can actually manage to do_. So if you want more HS guys on the CSM, go get them elected. Don’t go asking for special dispensation nobody else gets. > [@bluelysian](#): > > what you are telling here is … Oh there is an election in the country… let’s remove everybody out of the table who cannot organize… Only people who is part of the cartels represent Players… > > People who doesnt organise … doesnt deserve to be presented is that it??? Tell you what: go announce your candidacy for national office in any country. Do absolutely no organizing. Don’t try to get signatures to get your name on the ballot. See how well that goes. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2021, 8:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-16-all-you-need-to-know/305598/157 "2021-04-17T20:37:24Z")
If a player doesn’t even care enough about Eve to leave highsec and explore the other areas, why in the world would they care about who gets elected to the CSM? ---
**Author:** ![bluelysian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bluelysian/32/423769_2.png) [@bluelysian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/bluelysian)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2021, 8:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-16-all-you-need-to-know/305598/158 "2021-04-17T20:53:29Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Yup. Totally equal rights: you’ve got the right to do _whatever you can actually manage to do_. So if you want more HS guys on the CSM, go get them elected. Don’t go asking for special dispensation nobody else gets. Hahaha you make a system first only possible to elect for blessed ones … then you say this lololol … whatever you drink tell me i stay away ---
**Author:** ![bluelysian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bluelysian/32/423769_2.png) [@bluelysian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/bluelysian)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2021, 8:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-16-all-you-need-to-know/305598/159 "2021-04-17T20:54:49Z")
They did mat be and decide best is high sec ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2021, 8:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-16-all-you-need-to-know/305598/160 "2021-04-17T20:55:36Z")
The only thing fun to do in highsec is suicide ganking. Everything else is horribly boring. ---
**Author:** ![bluelysian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bluelysian/32/423769_2.png) [@bluelysian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/bluelysian)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2021, 9:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-16-all-you-need-to-know/305598/161 "2021-04-17T21:03:21Z")
Actually yes … i know… that also what i have been thinking, i had been fun of mutual war concept for years, but in turn i have realised that RvB is nothing different than any other corps in eve online… all corrupted liars and thiefs, nothing different … many ways suicide gankers are pretty straight forward, just not my play stle… but no need to ignore … they have content rich enviroment in high sec 🙂 why i go and roam solo in low sec to find one ■■■■■■■ fight… or stick or tama and amamake … hot spots… rest is dead… There is great risk in suicide ganking and solid thrills … its also kind of sad people doesnt understand this so far … its whoole BS that they claim there is no risk its easy job blahh blahh its not I think in eve we first need to learn to respect different play styles… esp if we dont know any ■■■■ about it … ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2021, 9:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-16-all-you-need-to-know/305598/162 "2021-04-17T21:14:52Z")
My favorite time in Eve was when I was in a group that tried to set up a POS in a wormhole. Of course, we got betrayed by a spy and the whole thing was destroyed. People need to give up this childish idea that Eve is about building things. Yeah, you can maybe build some stuff and sell it for a small profit, or you can enlist with the pharaohs of nullsec and build some stuff for them, as their slave. But to try to meet “friends” and build something together with your small group? Eve is not that game. Eve is about pissing on other people’s sandcastle. I don’t know why people keep building sandcastles. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2021, 9:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-16-all-you-need-to-know/305598/163 "2021-04-17T21:20:17Z")
Its not facist to say that if you cant be bothered to work for something thats within reach, you probably dont deserve to be given it. Who exactly should be made HS representatives if no one is standing in the first place? ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2021, 9:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-16-all-you-need-to-know/305598/164 "2021-04-17T21:22:43Z")
Ralph Nader would be a good choice. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-16-all-you-need-to-know/305598.md?page=7) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-16-all-you-need-to-know/305598.md?page=9)