# CSM and CCP, stop screwing us over **URL:** \ **Category:** Assembly Hall\ **Created:** [April 6, 2019, 1:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-and-ccp-stop-screwing-us-over/150783 "2019-04-06T01:15:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Omnathious\_Deninard](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/omnathious_deninard/32/266675_2.png) [@Omnathious\_Deninard](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Omnathious_Deninard)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 12:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-and-ccp-stop-screwing-us-over/150783/66 "2019-04-15T12:41:58Z")
> [@Naari\_Naarian](#): > > … > > ![Capture](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/c/9/c92b56c07d177ab6b133bc4e137d1f4b096fc476.png) > > Right there. Do you need a map, damaged goods? lmafo YOU DONT EVEN KNOW HOW TO READ THE ECONOMIC REPORT. OMFG. yes, that says 71 trillion ---
**Author:** ![Naari\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/naari_naarian/32/173077_2.png) [@Naari\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Naari_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 1:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-and-ccp-stop-screwing-us-over/150783/71 "2019-04-15T13:18:41Z")
Back on topic. @FightTheBear_Jenkins Understanding that ratting is your primary function in eve, how would you go about balancing the income rates, being that there is a massive in balance in ratting income to other forms? ---
**Author:** ![Jerry\_Falcone](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jerry_falcone/32/167073_2.png) [@Jerry\_Falcone](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jerry_Falcone)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 1:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-and-ccp-stop-screwing-us-over/150783/75 "2019-04-15T13:42:20Z")
You are confusing me with other people. I detest code, I’m all for sensible changes, I dont wanna make it safe for newbs, because when I joined in 2011 I didnt have it easy. ---
**Author:** ![xXmemeprincess420Xx](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xxmemeprincess420xx/32/264183_2.png) [@xXmemeprincess420Xx](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/xXmemeprincess420Xx)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 3:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-and-ccp-stop-screwing-us-over/150783/77 "2019-04-15T15:13:35Z")
You might have mistaken that decimal seperator dot there for a comma. So millions of billions which would mean quadrillions yes. But that is “only” 71433 B roughly which means its 71 trillion. Here’s a site that explains it well I think. [https://www.mathsisfun.com/definitions/trillion.html](https://www.mathsisfun.com/definitions/trillion.html) ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Project](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_project/32/479741_2.png) [@Solecist\_Project](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Project)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 3:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-and-ccp-stop-screwing-us-over/150783/78 "2019-04-15T15:25:57Z")
> [@Naari\_Naarian](#): > > Stop posting on your alt and talking to yourself, _you have serious mental issues_. That’s quite ironic. ---
**Author:** ![ISD\_Buldath](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/isd_buldath/32/381437_2.png) [@ISD\_Buldath](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ISD_Buldath)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 5:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-and-ccp-stop-screwing-us-over/150783/80 "2019-04-15T17:35:34Z")
Several post sent back to there posters to be modified, and several deleted for innapropriate content. ---
**Author:** ![Lugburz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugburz/32/486230_2.png) [@Lugburz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugburz)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 6:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-and-ccp-stop-screwing-us-over/150783/81 "2019-04-15T18:00:44Z")
> [@Naari\_Naarian](#): > > relative safety the null alliances most of that safety is because they dont even need to move out of the same system… > [@Naari\_Naarian](#): > > There is however an the topic of actual generation of the isk, that is, the super carriers and titan ratting that generate between 300 and 650million isk an hour. This needs to be nerfed. no it doesnt need to be nerfed, it needs to actually have some danger… > [@Naari\_Naarian](#): > > I do not agree with spawn rate nerfs. I think its bad in concept to have players waiting or going out of their natural comfort zone comfort zone? they can ■■■■ off back to high sec if they want comfort tbh… > [@Naari\_Naarian](#): > > A better change would of looked like changing capitals, and supers to have to rat against other capitals and suppers by removing their ability to target/kill subcapitals, in place of a super-cap/cap vs npc cap set of ratting sites. YES!! ---
**Author:** ![Lugburz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugburz/32/486230_2.png) [@Lugburz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugburz)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 6:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-and-ccp-stop-screwing-us-over/150783/82 "2019-04-15T18:08:23Z")
In regards to quadrillion/trillion btw… this might help. ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/7/b/7be02e75a7c26b7d5d938dc8e891106f6a22dd43.png) ---
**Author:** ![Lugburz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugburz/32/486230_2.png) [@Lugburz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugburz)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 6:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-and-ccp-stop-screwing-us-over/150783/83 "2019-04-15T18:10:25Z")
Ratting should scale with risk, currently it does not. ---
**Author:** ![Naari\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/naari_naarian/32/173077_2.png) [@Naari\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Naari_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 8:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-and-ccp-stop-screwing-us-over/150783/84 "2019-04-15T20:11:43Z")
na its all in the capital and super capital income rates where the issues are. the best option is to create capital level encounters, and move cpaitald and supers into being unable to engage and kill subcapitals outright, or make it extremely difficult (like hitting a frigate in a bs with torps), then removing dd because dd’s allow titans to farm lke 600m/hr. ---
**Author:** ![Omnathious\_Deninard](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/omnathious_deninard/32/266675_2.png) [@Omnathious\_Deninard](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Omnathious_Deninard)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 8:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-and-ccp-stop-screwing-us-over/150783/85 "2019-04-15T20:41:34Z")
> [@Naari\_Naarian](#): > > the best option is to create capital level encounters How is this going to reduce ISK generation? It is unlikely that a capital only site is going to generate less ISK than what Capitals can make currently. With a quick look; Carriers and Dreadnoughts coming in at 60M isk each and Supers coming in a 240M isk each. ---
**Author:** ![Naari\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/naari_naarian/32/173077_2.png) [@Naari\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Naari_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 8:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-and-ccp-stop-screwing-us-over/150783/86 "2019-04-15T20:49:13Z")
> [@Omnathious\_Deninard](#): > > How is this going to reduce ISK generation? It wont, it provides a content level that stops capitals/supers from super farming subcapitals. Is because they can farm the smaller ships so fast (with higher damage, and aoe-DD) that they are able to make 300-650m/hr. So its a three stage change to fixing it. First, change combat so capitals have an extremely hard time hitting a target (like a dread trying to pop an inty), Second, create capital encounters third remove rats ability to be hit by DD.s From here its just scaling the isk per hour rats on rat bounties to acceptable levels. ---
**Author:** ![Naari\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/naari_naarian/32/173077_2.png) [@Naari\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Naari_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 8:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-and-ccp-stop-screwing-us-over/150783/87 "2019-04-15T20:51:20Z")
For example to super farm in titans all you need to do is wipe the first wave, position on the last mob, and then aoe dd it when its near the spawn, all remaining waves will spawn dying to the aoe dd, and you instantly clear the site after the first wave, significantly increasing titan farming rates. carriers and supers are left to bomber farming, but still very effective. super farming is like taking a perfectly skills insta-lock svipul and giving him an instant aoe blop to all near by idle frigates. ---
**Author:** ![Omnathious\_Deninard](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/omnathious_deninard/32/266675_2.png) [@Omnathious\_Deninard](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Omnathious_Deninard)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 8:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-and-ccp-stop-screwing-us-over/150783/88 "2019-04-15T20:57:09Z")
PVE is rarely threatening, Abyssal space is mostly due to the timer. As has been shown in every form of PVE players are quick to optimize their ships and minimize their risk while increasing efficiency of ISK generation. With only one Capital running at any given time 300-650M ISK per hour would result in 221.5 - 458.25B ISK per month, now extrapolate that over all the capital PVE players in Null. This would end up severely driving the cost of everything in the game up. ---
**Author:** ![Naari\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/naari_naarian/32/173077_2.png) [@Naari\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Naari_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 9:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-and-ccp-stop-screwing-us-over/150783/89 "2019-04-15T21:09:07Z")
Every answer you and alts have does not have to be “make the game harder”. Your not the only people playing it, this game was not built just for you. > [@Omnathious\_Deninard](#): > > With only one Capital running at any given time 300-650M ISK per hour would result in 221.5 - Speculation. This has no position in current argument, nor does it make sense. Look, if the economy has to much isk, we nerf it. Simple. We dont go off as developers and start spending hours upon hours to “try to fix” something we can simply do by nerfing the income. It probably toon 5 minutes to change the respawn rates, if even that. I do agree though, there is a need to rework the rat ai, like many things its long over due, but more difficultly is not a good answer, considering such the larger skill point cap. ---
**Author:** ![Omnathious\_Deninard](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/omnathious_deninard/32/266675_2.png) [@Omnathious\_Deninard](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Omnathious_Deninard)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 9:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-and-ccp-stop-screwing-us-over/150783/90 "2019-04-15T21:16:42Z")
> [@Naari\_Naarian](#): > > Speculation. Not at all, if you look at 300M/HR \* 23.5 HR/Day \* 30 Days/Subscription = 221.5 Billion isk per month. And that is assuming only 1 Capital is ratting at any given hour. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 11:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-and-ccp-stop-screwing-us-over/150783/92 "2019-04-15T23:54:23Z")
Capital ratting and mining has just been nerfed. We can wait and actually see when the April MER comes out if it’s showing any impact ---
**Author:** ![Omnathious\_Deninard](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/omnathious_deninard/32/266675_2.png) [@Omnathious\_Deninard](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Omnathious_Deninard)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 12:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-and-ccp-stop-screwing-us-over/150783/93 "2019-04-16T00:38:27Z")
Oh yeah, I am aware of that and I hope that it had a decent effect on ISK generation, however Naari’s suggestion is to make capital only sites that generate between 300m and 650m isk per hour. ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Project](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_project/32/479741_2.png) [@Solecist\_Project](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Project)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 12:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-and-ccp-stop-screwing-us-over/150783/94 "2019-04-16T12:02:06Z")
CCP Dragon last year (two?) stated that lowsec is the most dangerous space, with high and null being around equal. I can try digging out his post, if you feel like requiring it. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 12:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-and-ccp-stop-screwing-us-over/150783/95 "2019-04-16T12:13:15Z")
Please do. That’s a reference I don’t have the source for, but it was a great point. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-and-ccp-stop-screwing-us-over/150783.md?page=3) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-and-ccp-stop-screwing-us-over/150783.md?page=5)