# CSM and CCP, stop screwing us over **URL:** \ **Category:** Assembly Hall\ **Created:** [April 6, 2019, 1:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-and-ccp-stop-screwing-us-over/150783 "2019-04-06T01:15:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2020, 4:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-and-ccp-stop-screwing-us-over/150783/178 "2020-01-26T16:32:32Z")
> [@Sabus\_Narian](#): > > lv4 agents require you to be omega, and requiring omega does not make it inaccessible. > [@Sabus\_Narian](#): > > so newbies and alphas are screwed over They can still learn and get omega. > [@Sabus\_Narian](#): > > hurting the solo player You are in a MMO. You are not entitled to the whole content as a solo player. make my cry, tell me how it’s is hard for anew player to NOT be able to plex his own omega from creation. Life is really hard -.-’ ---
**Author:** ![Sabus\_Narian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sabus_narian/32/147677_2.png) [@Sabus\_Narian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sabus_Narian)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2020, 4:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-and-ccp-stop-screwing-us-over/150783/179 "2020-01-26T16:34:24Z")
> and requiring omega does not make it inaccessible. It does to newer players trying to earn the isk to get omega > They can still learn and get omega. hard to get omega if you can’t get the isk to get omega > You are in a MMO. You are not entitled to the whole content as a solo player. > > > make my cry, tell me how it’s is hard for anew player to NOT be able to plex his own omega from creation. Life is really hard -.-’ He’s entitled to a good gameplay experience, same as all players. You for segregation of players based on their circumstances now? ---
**Author:** ![Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/runa_yamaguchi/32/197532_2.png) [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Runa_Yamaguchi)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2020, 4:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-and-ccp-stop-screwing-us-over/150783/181 "2020-01-26T16:40:02Z")
Then move to NS… ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2020, 4:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-and-ccp-stop-screwing-us-over/150783/182 "2020-01-26T16:43:51Z")
> [@Sabus\_Narian](#): > > It does to newer players trying to earn the isk to get omega then it does not. > [@Sabus\_Narian](#): > > hard to get omega if you can’t get the isk to get omega nobody cares. Pay a sub. > [@Sabus\_Narian](#): > > He’s entitled to a good gameplay experience, same as all players. He’s not. ---
**Author:** ![Sabus\_Narian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sabus_narian/32/147677_2.png) [@Sabus\_Narian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sabus_Narian)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2020, 4:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-and-ccp-stop-screwing-us-over/150783/183 "2020-01-26T16:50:16Z")
So screw newer players and those that can’t afford a sub, got it ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2020, 4:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-and-ccp-stop-screwing-us-over/150783/184 "2020-01-26T16:59:03Z")
You can start by ■■■■■■■ yourself. And indeed, alpha players should NOT have the same content as omega players. Especially they should not have access to content that generates isks - because then it can be botted easily. If you want to have access to omega content : pay omega. That’s all. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2020, 6:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-and-ccp-stop-screwing-us-over/150783/185 "2020-01-26T18:49:08Z")
Are these posts real? This whole argument about Emerging Conduits and Alpha players and highsec income seems like a joke. Do we have a Mark Twain in our hands here, trolling us? ---
**Author:** ![Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/runa_yamaguchi/32/197532_2.png) [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Runa_Yamaguchi)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2020, 9:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-and-ccp-stop-screwing-us-over/150783/186 "2020-01-26T21:46:53Z")
> [@Xeux](#): > > Do we have a Mark Twain in our hands here, trolling us? Sadly no. It’s a entitled HS care-bear that thinks it’s new players rights to be able to plex their account in HS from day one. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2020, 10:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-and-ccp-stop-screwing-us-over/150783/187 "2020-01-26T22:23:45Z")
> [@Sabus\_Narian](#): > > hard to get omega if you can’t get the isk to get omega It’s easy to get to omega, you just pay $15/month because you have a real job and $15/month isn’t very much money. > He’s entitled to a good gameplay experience, same as all players. Nope. That’s not how EVE works. You aren’t entitled to anything, if you suck at EVE and can’t beat the other players who want you to fail then all you deserve is failure until you quit. That’s what makes success in EVE have value, unlike success in all of the trash PvE farming games you want to turn EVE into. ---
**Author:** ![Admiral\_Malik\_Shahbaz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/admiral_malik_shahbaz/32/181859_2.png) [@Admiral\_Malik\_Shahbaz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Admiral_Malik_Shahbaz)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2020, 10:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-and-ccp-stop-screwing-us-over/150783/188 "2020-01-26T22:32:17Z")
Hello ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2020, 10:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-and-ccp-stop-screwing-us-over/150783/189 "2020-01-26T22:32:40Z")
Howdy. ---
**Author:** ![Knowledgeminer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/knowledgeminer/32/422883_2.png) [@Knowledgeminer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Knowledgeminer)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2020, 4:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-and-ccp-stop-screwing-us-over/150783/190 "2020-01-27T04:31:47Z")
> [@Xeux](#): > > Are these posts real? Yes, they’re for real. This @Sabus_Narian idiot has somehow come to the conclusion that EvE is about having the largest and loudest whining “community” on the forums, the CSM, and elsewhere, to demand the game be changed to whatever it is that he happens to want. So he created a newbie hoarding corp and is now trying to push those changes by spamming the forums with his demands and telling his corp members, which have even less of a clue than him, to support his posts. Since he’s spamming the forums with redundant ridiculous threads, though, those threads are getting locked, so he has decided to take over other threads to keep posting his nonsense there too… Now, all of this would be entertaining and wouldn’t really be much of an issue by itself, because everybody that knows anything about the game is laughing at him and there is no way CCP is going to take seriously anything he says, if it wasn’t because of the damage he’s doing to the newbies he hoards for his own selfish interests… ---
**Author:** ![Wacky\_Wobbler\_Wibble](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wacky_wobbler_wibble/32/171062_2.png) [@Wacky\_Wobbler\_Wibble](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wacky_Wobbler_Wibble)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2020, 2:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-and-ccp-stop-screwing-us-over/150783/191 "2020-01-28T14:45:41Z")
eve online is a pvp game 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Black\_Pedro](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/black_pedro/32/257285_2.png) [@Black\_Pedro](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Black_Pedro)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2020, 4:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-and-ccp-stop-screwing-us-over/150783/193 "2020-01-28T16:05:12Z")
> [@Gowa\_Hyasyoda](#): > > PvP players will always complain if they try to make the game more accessible and easy to PvE players because PvP players directly depend on PvE players for easy kills and profit. I think this a gross mischaracterization. Aside from a few knuckle-draggers puffing their chest, I’ve seen very few Eve players that “complain” that the game is too easy and accessible. Almost everyone in Eve wants more players, of all sorts. If there is tension, and there clearly is in the forums and elsewhere, it is between players who want to play a competitive game and those who do not. Those that want to play an idle clicking game, or a wealth-accumulation prograssive game want Eve balanced so they aren’t in any real competition and thus can never lose. Then there are those other players that want to play the game Eve was more designed as - a persistent, competitive economy/war simulator. The tension arises because the two are really mutually exclusive. CCP has done reasonably well at bridging the gap, but as you recognize, they will never be able to completely satisfy both groups. For the economy to work, there has to be destruction and risk, and yet there can’t be too punishing a ruleset or players will give up. Honestly, Eve is nowhere near as cuthroat or punishing as some claim. As a rule, most everything you own is perfectly safe. Your wallet is perfectly safe. For most Eve veterans, only a fraction of a percent of their wealth is ever at risk when they undock. Outside of maybe trickery, there is no way to inflict a catastrophic loss on an established player. Yet this is still too much for the “PvE farmer” archetype of Eve player. They want not only continual progress free of any real set back. They whine and bleat for the game to be made easier and safer, completely oblivious that Eve is a competitive zero sum game, and if you make everyone a winner, no one is a winner. If you increase the payout of all PvE ten-fold like the short-sighted farmer wants, then in short order the price of PLEX and everything on the market will also rise ten-fold. Eve is a PvP game. It is intended that you can prey upon the other players and take their stuff. So no, that does not mean everything is perfectly balanced and nothing can be changed, nor that taking stuff from other players is all the game is about, but agitating to be made immune to the other players while still retaining the ability to influence the shared economy is selfish and ultimately unsustainable. Do not be surprised if a large number of players resist your self-centered calls for easier wealth or more safety. > [@Gowa\_Hyasyoda](#): > > So what you have is a high sec where death lurks in every corner, a mostly friendly neighborhood in null sec, and a dead wide open useless bunch of space in between called lowsec that players constantly hope to find something to do in that won’t bother the neighbors they wish to remain friendly with. Eve does have problems. Nullsec is too safe - I think everyone from the nullbloc leaders to CCP agrees. Hence experiments like the Black Out. Lowsec has been terminally neglected, and highsec, well highsec has been made safer and safer over the years to the point there is very little player-driven content left. Highsec has never been safer for PvE players. Almost all forms of non-consensual PvP have been deleted, and yet the carebears have not come back. Maybe they are all still in nullsec, but highsec seems as lifeless as ever, even with 200-500 ISK/h sites being continuously in every system for the last six months. More wealth or safety doesn’t bring the players some will claim. It least it never despite years of attempts. Even better PvE, like CCP has actually delivered over the last 18-24 months doesn’t seem to draw or keep players. If anything, the pendulum has spent almost a decade swinging towards making Eve less competitive, and activity has declined. Let’s hope CCP refocuses on the core competitive game play a little more and stops chasing the PvE farmers that never come, or at least never stay very long. ---
**Author:** ![Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/runa_yamaguchi/32/197532_2.png) [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Runa_Yamaguchi)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2020, 9:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-and-ccp-stop-screwing-us-over/150783/195 "2020-01-28T21:46:11Z")
You continue to be one of the best writers on the forums…I hope you are CC’ing on other platforms as what you say most of the time deserves more views than just here. Thanks again for your efforts. ---
**Author:** ![michaelMeilinbourne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/michaelmeilinbourne/32/181341_2.png) [@michaelMeilinbourne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/michaelMeilinbourne)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2020, 2:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-and-ccp-stop-screwing-us-over/150783/196 "2020-02-04T02:47:00Z")
I also secind this post. I’m a indy/ratter who has been in and out of Null for 10yrs.I’ve been in major and minor/2ndry allices and it seems all the big alliances in null do is screw over all the ppl who wouldn’t kiss thier collective azzes. And now the CSM’s and CCP are going along totaly with them. ---
**Author:** ![michaelMeilinbourne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/michaelmeilinbourne/32/181341_2.png) [@michaelMeilinbourne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/michaelMeilinbourne)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2020, 3:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-and-ccp-stop-screwing-us-over/150783/197 "2020-02-04T03:05:41Z")
I agree make supers and Titan have almost no ability to fight sub cap rats I f ppl want to rat with carriers and dreads thats not bad. Also the nerfs to some of the VNI’s/Gila’s and several other sub caps that ppl AFKed ratted in was a very good idea. I mine and rat with all my toons in null and hate the AFK ppl ratting/mining They cut into my hard work and make it very hard for me to make a fair rate of isk and mins I take the mins I mine to make mods and ships to sell to friends in null. ---
**Author:** ![michaelMeilinbourne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/michaelmeilinbourne/32/181341_2.png) [@michaelMeilinbourne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/michaelMeilinbourne)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2020, 3:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-and-ccp-stop-screwing-us-over/150783/198 "2020-02-04T03:37:50Z")
I run a Noob training corp with ny alts and 1 thing I do is make sure they ALWAYS have ships they can use. I pay them Jita rates rates for anything they mine or get ratting or PvP if they wanna sell it. I make no threats to my members and pretty much let them do what they want as They can. My biggest role is just giving advice to them and boosts for whatever they do. If more ppl HELPED noobs and worked with them we would see a huigher retention rate of new players and as they got better they can form thier own corps/alliances and start taking the Super alliances down. Look what happened to goons when they pissed off everybody in null. Even old rivals got together and they stomped Goons, admitally it didn’t kill them but they hurt. ---
**Author:** ![Pythos\_Torment](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pythos_torment/32/252512_2.png) [@Pythos\_Torment](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Pythos_Torment)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2020, 9:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-and-ccp-stop-screwing-us-over/150783/199 "2020-02-04T21:01:25Z")
[![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/f/e/fe9f41f7f15ca5beb23747228cc45b42abff6cdf.jpeg "FightTheBear Jenkins")](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/FightTheBear_Jenkins) [FightTheBear Jenkins](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/FightTheBear_Jenkins) [Apr '19](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-and-ccp-stop-screwing-us-over/150783) So I just finished reading the patch notes for the next release. Clearly CCP and the CSM have decided to completely screw over PvE players… NERFS to some favorite ratting ships (VNI/Gila)… Carrier Nerfs (totally stupid and just makes you easier to kill)… etc etc… Not everyone WANTS to be a PvP player, get over it. So now you introduce a bunch of nerfs, to make it so that PvE players are easier FOOD for PvP players. And has it dawned on anyone yet, that some in the CSM are at the TOP of super-powerful alliances, that GOT THERE with pre-nerfed rules? Maybe the want to nerf us all so bad that we can never catch up? Hmm… Likely. Not sure what the future of this game holds, but you should always ask yourself… Why are they changing this? for ‘balance’? balance for who? Not for us my friends, not for us. This is one of the BEST posts I have read , and I cannot agree more with what was said here. Pythos Torment ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 12:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-and-ccp-stop-screwing-us-over/150783/200 "2020-02-09T00:08:17Z")
> [@Black\_Pedro](#): > > Let’s hope CCP refocuses on the core competitive game play a little more and stops chasing the PvE farmers that never come, or at least never stay very long. Agreed with 90% of that post. Maybe more. One thing that farmers seem to completely miss out on is that if there was more destruction, everything they farmed/manufactured/traded in would become more valuable. Even ISK would if that’s all they’re farming. Sure, ‘better’ PvE wouldn’t hurt EVE, so long as ‘better’ meant ‘more interesting and engaging, with more options’ and not simply ‘more rewarding with less risk’. 'Better, more interesting, more accessible PvP that isn’t quite so one-sided and doesn’t require 4+ hours of PvE for every 30 minutes of PvP to fund it" would do a lot more to improve EVE’s economy and player base than any PvE attempts would. I think this is the area that CCP fails the most in (and a lot of so-called PvPers never clue in to): if you make PvP one of the most punishing things a newer/intermediate player can do, then of course a large portion of those players are going to learn quickly to avoid it. People are neurologically designed to avoid loss and risk-taking that leads to loss. Design for newer players and PvP-curious players a smoother entrance into PvP, and you’ll get a lot more people taking that path. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-and-ccp-stop-screwing-us-over/150783.md?page=8) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-and-ccp-stop-screwing-us-over/150783.md?page=10)