# CSM member Jin'taan SCARED for EvEs future after Csm Summit **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [August 30, 2017, 3:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-member-jintaan-scared-for-eves-future-after-csm-summit/20844 "2017-08-30T15:27:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Shailagh\_Rose](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shailagh_rose/32/14667_2.png) [@Shailagh\_Rose](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shailagh_Rose)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 3:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-member-jintaan-scared-for-eves-future-after-csm-summit/20844/1 "2017-08-30T15:27:14Z")
Csm summit just happened. Csm Jin’taan just released a summary of it, NOT THE MINUTES mind you. Just his brief report. Seems to be SCARED for eves future and ADMITS MANY PROBLEMS wont be scheduled to get fixed im future by ccp. CSM member Jintaan SAYS HE IS VERY WORRIED ABOUT EVES SHORT TERM FUTURE. > [@](#): > > “The NDA in general precludes me from sharing details about the summit, but I often get asked to sum up the summit, or at least my feelings on it. Personally, I feel this summit was a lot less of a fight than I expected, but I don’t leave it feeling hopeful in the short term. CCP was very forthcoming in acknowledging the problems that we presented, but less so in committing to address them in the near future. And, whilst that is a very crucial step forwards that I’m happy about, we still have much to do on that front.” Link [https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yqr9d1YIrw9rFpD7XRfmac02ln2Ue-3B248l4rPLYso](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yqr9d1YIrw9rFpD7XRfmac02ln2Ue-3B248l4rPLYso) Guess eve is dying. ---
**Author:** ![Lady\_Ayeipsia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lady_ayeipsia/32/23528_2.png) [@Lady\_Ayeipsia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lady_Ayeipsia)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 3:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-member-jintaan-scared-for-eves-future-after-csm-summit/20844/2 "2017-08-30T15:52:54Z")
It is a serious leap of logic to jump from a statement about not being hopeful that CCP will fix problems in the short term to EVE is dying in the short term. Are you just trying to troll? And why would people expect immediate fixes? Fixing issues properly takes time. You have to dive down and find the root cause. Then you must figure out what needs to be changed to fix that, then move forward. It’s not a throw the switch it’s fixed kind of thing. Seriously, from his summary it seemed it went well enough. How you jump to doom and gloom of that… I’d love to know. ---
**Author:** ![Shailagh\_Rose](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shailagh_rose/32/14667_2.png) [@Shailagh\_Rose](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shailagh_Rose)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 3:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-member-jintaan-scared-for-eves-future-after-csm-summit/20844/3 "2017-08-30T15:56:18Z")
So at fanfest they said their schedule for the coming year is pretty much free and they were looking for inputs from the CSM, and then Csm mwmber Jin’taan says that they left hopeless to see any submitted ideas addressed in the future… ---
**Author:** ![Lady\_Ayeipsia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lady_ayeipsia/32/23528_2.png) [@Lady\_Ayeipsia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lady_Ayeipsia)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 4:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-member-jintaan-scared-for-eves-future-after-csm-summit/20844/4 "2017-08-30T16:03:49Z")
No… He said addressed in the near future. There is a huge difference. What you are saying is that eve will be closed soon. What he is saying is that CCP acknowledged the issues the CSM put forth but does not yet have a road map to fix then in the near future. There is a huge world of difference ---
**Author:** ![LouHodo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/louhodo/32/109593_2.png) [@LouHodo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/LouHodo)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 4:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-member-jintaan-scared-for-eves-future-after-csm-summit/20844/5 "2017-08-30T16:23:28Z")
> [@Shailagh\_Rose](#): > > Guess eve is dying. Chicken little here. The sky is falling the sky is falling! EVE is limited by its game engine. Somethings may not be in the scope of fixable issues. Or within reason of being fixed in the near future. I doubt CCP would leave a broken mechanic in game indefinitely without reason. So sit down and calm down, you’re rocking the boat. ---
**Author:** ![Buoytender\_Bob](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/buoytender_bob/32/374377_2.png) [@Buoytender\_Bob](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Buoytender_Bob)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 4:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-member-jintaan-scared-for-eves-future-after-csm-summit/20844/6 "2017-08-30T16:52:39Z")
I read the OP’s post, then Jin"taan’s report and could not reach the same conclusion. That being said, I am worried that all mention of PvE improvement in HS outside of the NPE has been scrubbed from EVE updates as well as not mentioned in the CSM meeting plans.That CCP has also refused/failed to post responses to the numerous threads that have been posted in both these forums and reddit posing questions on if there have been changes in CCP’s stated plans makes me wonder if we are on our way to another WiS fiasco. I don’t know if EVE is dying, but its caregivers are sure not communicating with its immediate family. ---
**Author:** ![Jin\_taan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jin_taan/32/381307_2.png) [@Jin\_taan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jin_taan)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 5:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-member-jintaan-scared-for-eves-future-after-csm-summit/20844/7 "2017-08-30T17:03:02Z")
I can’t really TL;DR/unpack this to a more reasoned extent until after CCP releases the minutes, and to a degree some of the things that are planned for the near future (3-9 months) in EVE’s development. But this was mostly aimed at some of the more underlying concerns I had regarding Nullsec, Citadels and FW/Lowsec, rather than the game as a whole. CCP is certainly doing things, and I’m excited for the Winter/Spring period, I just wished to express my dismay at the fact that CCP didn’t seem to have a longer term roadmap for fixing the problems that they are keenly aware of in those areas. EVE certainly isn’t about to keel over any time soon, I just wished to put my concerns out there. Sad to see people sensationalising them so rapidly. ---
**Author:** ![yellow\_parasol](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yellow_parasol/32/10455_2.png) [@yellow\_parasol](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/yellow_parasol)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 5:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-member-jintaan-scared-for-eves-future-after-csm-summit/20844/8 "2017-08-30T17:14:08Z")
> [@Jin\_taan](#): > > people one person isn’t “people”, especially not that one bad apple. okay? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Jin\_taan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jin_taan/32/381307_2.png) [@Jin\_taan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jin_taan)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 5:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-member-jintaan-scared-for-eves-future-after-csm-summit/20844/9 "2017-08-30T17:16:58Z")
Sadly, this post is not the only response I’ve had that is basically going “OMG HE SAID SOMETHING NEGATIVE EVE IS DYING”. I’m glad to see the forums mostly recognises that criticism can be given without it being an outright condemnation of everything and that the world is about to end 🙂 Still, perhaps I should have elaborated further in my writing, I just don’t want to make these updates as big as they often can turn out to be as it reduces how many people read them and keep up with the CSM. Speaking of these, I need to put up a thread with them all in on the new forums, going off to do that now~ ---
**Author:** ![Linus\_Gorp](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/linus_gorp/32/317333_2.png) [@Linus\_Gorp](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Linus_Gorp)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 5:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-member-jintaan-scared-for-eves-future-after-csm-summit/20844/10 "2017-08-30T17:25:34Z")
> [@LouHodo](#): > > EVE is limited by its game engine. Somethings may not be in the scope of fixable issues. Or within reason of being fixed in the near future. I doubt CCP would leave a broken mechanic in game indefinitely without reason. Their engine, CARBON, was developed in-house, just as the Trinity engine before that. Game engine bugs are entirely within CCPs ability to fix. ---
**Author:** ![yellow\_parasol](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yellow_parasol/32/10455_2.png) [@yellow\_parasol](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/yellow_parasol)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 5:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-member-jintaan-scared-for-eves-future-after-csm-summit/20844/11 "2017-08-30T17:29:27Z")
> [@Jin\_taan](#): > > I just don’t want to make these updates as big as they often can turn out to be as it reduces how many people read them that’s not a bad thing. 🙂 i often write posts filling pages on paper. it really helps with being accurate and filtering out those who aren’t equipped for the topic anyway. though, of course, you’re a “politician” and that means catering to the masses is kind of a necessity. you have my sympathies. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Jin\_taan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jin_taan/32/381307_2.png) [@Jin\_taan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jin_taan)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 5:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-member-jintaan-scared-for-eves-future-after-csm-summit/20844/12 "2017-08-30T17:32:14Z")
CARBON isn’t the engine CCP uses currently, as CARBON is the WiS engine which was designed to be cross-product between EVE and WoD. The backend of the EVE spaceship engine is called “Dogma”, but I don’t claim to know the inner workings of it, apart from the fact that many of the people who originally designed it no longer work for CCP. Steve may be able to comment more. ---
**Author:** ![Jin\_taan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jin_taan/32/381307_2.png) [@Jin\_taan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jin_taan)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 5:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-member-jintaan-scared-for-eves-future-after-csm-summit/20844/13 "2017-08-30T17:33:30Z")
Much like the saying with a tree falling in a forest, if one writes a paper and no-one reads it, was it ever written at all? ---
**Author:** ![Black\_Pedro](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/black_pedro/32/257285_2.png) [@Black\_Pedro](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Black_Pedro)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 5:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-member-jintaan-scared-for-eves-future-after-csm-summit/20844/14 "2017-08-30T17:36:15Z")
> [@Jin\_taan](#): > > Sadly, this post is not the only response I’ve had that is basically going “OMG HE SAID SOMETHING NEGATIVE EVE IS DYING”. I’m glad to see the forums mostly recognises that criticism can be given without it being an outright condemnation of everything and that the world is about to end 🙂 Don’t worry about the drama queens. They’ll take whatever you say and spin it to stir the pot. It is also true though that anxieties are running a little higher than usual lately over the lack of information and timelines for the future of the game, and Seagull did promise us some more information on the next expansion in August (_i.e._ the next 36 hours or so). It’s only natural that some of this anxiety induced by that radio silence is going to colour how what you said was interpreted. ---
**Author:** ![Benje\_en\_Divalone](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/benje_en_divalone/32/11879_2.png) [@Benje\_en\_Divalone](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Benje_en_Divalone)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 5:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-member-jintaan-scared-for-eves-future-after-csm-summit/20844/15 "2017-08-30T17:39:11Z")
> [@Linus\_Gorp](#): > > Game engine bugs are entirely within CCPs ability to fix. Given infinite time and money all bugs are solvable. CCP has admitted to some significant technical debt. That doesn’t suggest implementation problems but more fundamental architectural or design issues. For instance: Station containers. There’s a very shallow hard limit to how much those can be nested. Implementing something like that correctly is non-trivial. Smells to me that somebody took the easy way out. Changing how that behaves is now even more difficult to correct because not only do you have to do it right, you have to come up with a migration plan so that their customers don’t lose their stuff and slam CS with a mountain of restore petitions. ---
**Author:** ![Linus\_Gorp](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/linus_gorp/32/317333_2.png) [@Linus\_Gorp](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Linus_Gorp)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 5:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-member-jintaan-scared-for-eves-future-after-csm-summit/20844/16 "2017-08-30T17:40:29Z")
Game engines are frameworks that consist of several parts. Among them are a rendering engine, a physics engine, AI engine, audio engine, and so on. Dogma is just a part of it, not an entirely new game engine in itself. ---
**Author:** ![yellow\_parasol](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yellow_parasol/32/10455_2.png) [@yellow\_parasol](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/yellow_parasol)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 5:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-member-jintaan-scared-for-eves-future-after-csm-summit/20844/17 "2017-08-30T17:46:00Z")
heh. i knew you’d make the CARBON related comment… > [@Jin\_taan](#): > > Much like the saying with a tree falling in a forest, if one writes a paper and no-one reads it, was it ever written at all? Not at all. When you write for the masses, you will inevitably run into the problem of considering _who_ potentially doesn’t understand _what_ and have to express it simple enough so they get it, leaving behind all those who actually have an attention span surpassing the 30sec mark, and who have the ability to understand complex problems. the thing, when catering to the intelligent, is that the intelligent work for you by spreading the knowledge to those who have a harder time grasping it. Not trying to insult anyone. I’m trying to say that your freedom increases when you write for those who have it easier to understand complex problems, because they can explain them. otoh, trying tk write for those who have it harder rarely actually achieves anything, except a loss of quality in your post. there will still be people who don’t get something, misinterpret something or complain, because it’s not written for idiots. anyhow, i don’t mean to steal your time and i’m not trying to tell you how you should do your “work”. i’m just trying to tell you a way that works well. anyway… you’re a “politician” and the masses definitely aren’t made for grasping complex topics. sorry for stealing your time. 🙂 PS: i’d read it. the more complex, the better. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Jin\_taan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jin_taan/32/381307_2.png) [@Jin\_taan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jin_taan)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 6:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-member-jintaan-scared-for-eves-future-after-csm-summit/20844/18 "2017-08-30T18:03:38Z")
FYI, [here’s the thread](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-12-rolling-updates/20868) with all the updates done previously - this is just one update in an ongoing commitment to making the CSM as transparent as can be done 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Yiole\_Gionglao](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yiole_gionglao/32/374866_2.png) [@Yiole\_Gionglao](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Yiole_Gionglao)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2017, 6:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-member-jintaan-scared-for-eves-future-after-csm-summit/20844/19 "2017-08-31T06:45:35Z")
Need not to to worry, the delayed/no dates stuff it’s nullsec and WH stuff. This means that PvE and Empire stuff is comfortably chugging along at the usual [rock steady pace](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8e/Large_boulder_south_of_West_Hill_-_geograph.org.uk_-_1738972.jpg). ---
**Author:** ![Yiole\_Gionglao](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yiole_gionglao/32/374866_2.png) [@Yiole\_Gionglao](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Yiole_Gionglao)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2017, 6:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-member-jintaan-scared-for-eves-future-after-csm-summit/20844/20 "2017-08-31T06:49:26Z")
It doesn’t helps that the only updates have consisted of removing updates. CCP is threading into dangerous grounds and although they’re silly enough so this could be just a communication misshap, they’re also “competent” enough to have FUBAR the PvE/Empire content scheduled for Winter… something wich at this point wouldn’t be the best for the future of EVE Online. [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-member-jintaan-scared-for-eves-future-after-csm-summit/20844.md?page=2)