# CSM Vote Result confusion **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [June 14, 2020, 12:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954 "2020-06-14T12:53:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Foggy\_Bernstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/foggy_bernstein/32/407887_2.png) [@Foggy\_Bernstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Foggy_Bernstein)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2020, 10:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/264 "2020-06-18T22:01:45Z")
Comparing politicians to the epitome of evil is about the only honest thing I’ve read from you in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2020, 10:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/265 "2020-06-18T22:22:31Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > Was it you or somebody else who said poor people don’t run for office? Dont confuse dont with cant. > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > Most of the folks who choose to run, at least at certain levels, have already had successful careers and they aren’t doing it for the money. I guess thats why they refuse the nice pay. Oh wait they dont. They take it too, retain their jobs on business boards as “advisors” or hand over to their families, and claim big fat expenses checks. And after, they take that sweet pension tax money, and get _another_ job as board members and shareholders in the companies they gave the sweet contracts and tax breaks to. Not to mention the lobby money, general brown enveloping and even selling their votes outright. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2020, 10:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/266 "2020-06-18T22:23:26Z")
Even in jest, the irony of that absolutist SW quote is tragic. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2020, 10:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/267 "2020-06-18T22:26:10Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > Dont confuse dont with cant. I’m not. > [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > I guess thats why they refuse the nice pay. Oh wait they dont. They take it too, retain their jobs on business boards as “advisors” or hand over to their families, and claim big fat expenses checks. And after, they take that sweet tax money, and get _another_ job as board members and shareholders in the companies they gave the sweet contracts and tax breaks to. > > Not to mention the lobby money, general brown enveloping and even selling their votes outright. All of that stuff is illegal and if you do it, you’ll end up in jail. > [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > Even in jest, the irony of that absolutist SW quote is tragic. What’s ironic about it? You guys are the ones dealing in absolutes. “Every politician is a liar,” etc. I acknowledge that there are bad ones, and so far I’ve been able to get one of you to admit that maybe three historical politicians (one of whom is not Abe Lincoln, lol) are not bad people. But it’s telling that you guys can’t even laugh at that joke, either. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2020, 10:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/268 "2020-06-18T22:30:10Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > All of that stuff is illegal and if you do it, you’ll end up in jail. Past events do not support that supposition. > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > What’s ironic about it? Its ironic because a non-Sith made an absolutist statement that only a Sith could make by his own admission. > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > But it’s telling that you guys can’t even laugh at that joke, either. Because people having their lives destroyed on a daily basis by the system you love so much isnt funny. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2020, 10:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/269 "2020-06-18T22:32:44Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > Past events do not support that supposition. I’ve seen it happen. I’ve got at least one friend headed to jail because of it. > [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > Its ironic because a non-Sith made an absolutist statement that only a Sith could make by his own admission. That’s the joke. That’s why it was funny when Obi-wan said it. > [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > Because people having their lives destroyed on a daily basis by the system you love so much isnt funny. /eyeroll ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2020, 10:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/270 "2020-06-18T22:35:42Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > I’ve seen it happen. I’ve got at least one friend headed to jail because of it. So you know corruption happens, but we are imagining it because we’re proles and dont understand. Gotcha. > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > /eyeroll And there we go. Yeah, you got into politics to help people, just not _the people_. Transmission Ends. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2020, 10:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/271 "2020-06-18T22:38:34Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > So you know corruption happens, but we are imagining it because we’re proles and dont understand. Gotcha. Of course corruption happens. But it’s not endemic, like you seem to believe. > [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > And there we go. Yeah, you got into politics to help people, just not _the people_ . I got into politics because I wanted to serve my community, not to support a system that “destroys lives on a daily basis.” That kind of hyperbole is a waste of everybody’s time. ---
**Author:** ![Foggy\_Bernstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/foggy_bernstein/32/407887_2.png) [@Foggy\_Bernstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Foggy_Bernstein)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2020, 10:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/272 "2020-06-18T22:43:40Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > I got into politics because I wanted to serve my community, Most people do. But as they see everyone else taking the money with no repercussions and getting reelected over and over again, that ideology fades into the background. And then after twenty years have passed, there is no level of corruption you can’t look in a mirror and justify to the stranger staring back out at you. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2020, 10:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/273 "2020-06-18T22:52:29Z")
> [@Foggy\_Bernstein](#): > > Most people do. But as they see everyone else taking the money with no repercussions and getting reelected over and over again, that ideology fades into the background. > > And then after twenty years have passed, there is no level of corruption you can’t look in a mirror and justify to the stranger staring back out at you. Yeah, that’s not the reality for the vast majority of people in elected office. That’s the Netflix version of serving. ---
**Author:** ![Avaelica\_Kuershin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/avaelica_kuershin/32/478139_2.png) [@Avaelica\_Kuershin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Avaelica_Kuershin)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2020, 12:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/274 "2020-06-19T00:14:11Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > If I’ve ever mentioned my country in a way that anybody could remotely call “propagandisitic,” it was tongue in cheek. But I do think it’s interesting that every single person here who has come at me hard about being a politician is not American. I think the problem is that to many outside the US, US politics is presidential elections, electoral college, stories about gerrymandered districts and dubious distribution of polling stations in some locations. Those all make for headlines. ---
**Author:** ![Xuxe\_Xu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuxe_xu/32/464660_2.png) [@Xuxe\_Xu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuxe_Xu)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2020, 12:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/275 "2020-06-19T00:44:10Z")
@CCP_Aurora - Well done. I think your original presentation would be better for folks who had a question about how the CSM15 STV election worked (if they are actually looking for an answer) but condensing it down to 3 minutes maybe will help some. * * * > [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](#): > > Edit, there’s something wrong in this thread; in a rare occurrence @Lucas_Kell and @Foggy_Bernstein are on the same page as myself and @Ramona_McCandless. Unlikely bedfellows indeed. _ **WHAT HAVE YOU DONE!?** _ [![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/1/4/148f99a7b02c28f792574c7b65f3e48b3d1ab5c5.gif "source: imgur.com")](https://imgur.com/nwlZKTv) ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2020, 12:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/276 "2020-06-19T00:47:15Z")
You’re not wrong, because that is what is covered the most by the media; bad news sells, good news does not. The electoral college system allows for what we used to call rotten boroughs here in the UK because there are US territories whose residents votes don’t count in general elections; instead they’re represented by a chosen few who control all of the votes. IIRC those territories account for almost 10% of the delegates at the electoral college; examples include Guam, American Samoa and the Virgin Islands. We outlawed that kind of thing back in 1835; our electoral system here isn’t perfect by any means but it’s subjectively fairer in that all of the votes count; we seem to have less instances of targeted disenfranchisement of the electorate, and of policy being driven by corporate interests. > [@Xuxe\_Xu](#): > > WHAT HAVE YOU DONE!? Divided by zero. ---
**Author:** ![Avaelica\_Kuershin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/avaelica_kuershin/32/478139_2.png) [@Avaelica\_Kuershin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Avaelica_Kuershin)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2020, 12:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/277 "2020-06-19T00:53:10Z")
> [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](#): > > We outlawed that kind of thing back in 1835; our electoral system here isn’t perfect by any means Electoral reform is an ongoing process but there is a lot of reluctance to upset the status quo. (I saw what happened in the UK) ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2020, 7:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/279 "2020-06-19T07:49:30Z")
Know what? F this. These liars are just using this as practise. They made this world, and no amount if death, misery or anything else is going to stop them profitting from it. I guess theres no point to trying to have a rational conversation. Theres not even a purpose to trying to do anything to fix it, theyve got it sewn up and when they dont, they change the rules, or have you arrested. And if you speak out, your mad, hyperbolic or in favour of violent revolition. Its a steel trap. I just dont get what happened that made them so derelict of actual empathy and human feeling. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2020, 8:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/280 "2020-06-19T08:20:45Z")
I have seen an honest man speak honestly and candidly in a patient and open way. His name was @Brisc_Rubal ---
**Author:** ![Magnus\_Carta](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/magnus_carta/32/210653_2.png) [@Magnus\_Carta](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Magnus_Carta)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2020, 8:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/281 "2020-06-19T08:32:36Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > These liars are just using this as practise. Yup… > [@Magnus\_Carta](#): > > You realize that there’s very little point in a discussion with a career politician? Normal people communicate and discuss to exchange ideas and perhaps convince the other of your ideas. > > It’s not that a career politician doesn’t understand your pov, perhaps he even agrees with you on that point but he’s never going to admit it. Partly because it doesn’t benefit him and partly because he enjoys the talking, scheming and deflecting. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2020, 8:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/282 "2020-06-19T08:45:01Z")
I should have listened to you. I should have also remembered what I was told years ago; the honest speak from their hearts, the dishonest tell you its a sin. ---
**Author:** ![Darik\_Acripher](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/darik_acripher/32/210404_2.png) [@Darik\_Acripher](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Darik_Acripher)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2020, 9:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/283 "2020-06-19T09:24:25Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Which is why my view is that we should simply disband the CSM. Since all it does is apply a null spin to feedback and push forward beneficial changes to null players while feeding intel about upcoming changes to nullsec leadership, disbanding the CSM removes the problem. Ok, but does that actually get WH folks any representation? Really, I think the best question is “what system would actually see that kind of representation happen” and working back from there. Maybe something that isn’t an overall ‘democracy’ but just… trying to get players to identify with a certain bloc (eg industry, pirate, carebear, exploration, facwar, wormhole, null, etc), have some base requirements–so you can’t just buy accounts, and you can’t have folks who only YARHAR try to vote in Indy–and construct CCP’s feedback based upon the changes it would make to people there. But personally I’d love for it still to be multi-representative, and still wtih STV, because those are good elements of the current system, even if the current system isn’t the most democratic it can be. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2020, 1:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/285 "2020-06-19T13:56:28Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > I should have listened to you. > > I should have also remembered what I was told years ago; the honest speak from their hearts, the dishonest tell you its a sin. Judge me by what I do and say, not by the job I happen to do. I’ve been nothing but honest with you guys, and gave you way more of my time yesterday than I should have. If you still want to think I’m a bad person because you’ve had bad experiences with other people in my profession, that’s fine. It’ll make me sad, but that’s okay, too. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954.md?page=12) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954.md?page=14)