# CSM Vote Result confusion **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [June 14, 2020, 12:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954 "2020-06-14T12:53:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Wander\_Prian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wander_prian/32/394208_2.png) [@Wander\_Prian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wander_Prian)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2020, 6:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/22 "2020-06-14T18:59:37Z")
> [@Daoden](#): > > So we will never get a WH CSM then. Still biased towards areas that have the highest population and organization. We’ve had multiple WH-CSM’s over the years, the latest one being in CSM 14. We just need to stop shooting ourselves in the foot and focus the votes. ---
**Author:** ![Daoden](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daoden/32/271841_2.png) [@Daoden](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daoden)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2020, 7:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/23 "2020-06-14T19:13:06Z")
sorry, my comment was to the person saying 1 vote per person period. I’m aware of previous CSMs we’ve had for WHs. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2020, 10:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/25 "2020-06-14T22:08:48Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > so there’s a null slant No, that is a myth passed down from care bear generation to care bear generation. It [the design] has a sandbox slant and sov null/wh are the “end game” of sandbox. Hi sec of course being the kiddie pool. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2020, 10:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/26 "2020-06-14T22:11:56Z")
Wormhole is way harder and “end game” than null. ---
**Author:** ![Shipwreck\_Jones](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shipwreck_jones/32/274382_2.png) [@Shipwreck\_Jones](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shipwreck_Jones)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2020, 10:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/27 "2020-06-14T22:46:57Z")
It’s not without it’s flaws, but it’s still a good system. I certainly prefer it to the heavily gerrymandered, winner-take-all voting system in the States. Of course, if you have a better (feasible) solution, let’s hear it. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > The problem is though that CCP gets a lot of feedback through them, so there’s a null slant to player feedback, True > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > plus they get access to information on upcoming changes which other people don’t get which gets fed back to their alliances. There have been a few bad actors, but as far as I can tell, this actually isn’t a systemic problem. If you have evidence to the contrary, I suggest you show it. ---
**Author:** ![Shipwreck\_Jones](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shipwreck_jones/32/274382_2.png) [@Shipwreck\_Jones](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shipwreck_Jones)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2020, 10:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/28 "2020-06-14T22:49:43Z")
[![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/6/c/6cddd62552f3ea8af0f985accf822bc4dda02fcc.jpeg "Politics in the Animal Kingdom: Single Transferable Vote") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8XOZJkozfI) This video shows the advantages of single transferable voting systems, and broadly explains how they work. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2020, 8:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/29 "2020-06-15T08:50:23Z")
Whys it better than total votes, top three/ten/however many win? ---
**Author:** ![Avaelica\_Kuershin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/avaelica_kuershin/32/478139_2.png) [@Avaelica\_Kuershin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Avaelica_Kuershin)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2020, 10:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/31 "2020-06-15T10:39:23Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Unless other areas of space can get thousands of people to vote for the exact same voting list, null powers will continue to be overrepresented. Not only that, but also get people to vote. Had a quick look at the raw data, easy to find the Imperium, PanFam, and TEST lists, but the Hi Sec block list (presumably SiCo) seems to a miserly 378 voting for 3 candidates. Still that would go on to help Mike ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Azariah](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mike_azariah/32/512626_2.png) [@Mike\_Azariah](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mike_Azariah)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2020, 1:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/33 "2020-06-16T01:16:30Z")
Because in that method the null blocs probably could sweep the board with organized voting and a lot of the votes cast would be cast with not electoral power at all. Wasted votes is the common term. IF someone you voted for did not get in using the STV method then your second choice kicks in and so on down the line. I did not do a count on the wasted in this election but I will wager that it was far less than it would have been in any first past the post election. Either way, I got in and I am not in any bloc or corp. So I am in favour of this method though I will admit my bias in this matter. And yeah, I wish we had a WH guy in here as well. m ---
**Author:** ![Darik\_Acripher](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/darik_acripher/32/210404_2.png) [@Darik\_Acripher](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Darik_Acripher)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2020, 1:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/34 "2020-06-16T01:43:20Z")
So, I have to say, STV is one of _the best_ ways for minority blocs to get at least one candidate in representation. If you run a slate of candidates, And randomize which order you put them in, you can effectively guarantee at least proportional representation–or at least disproportionate so long as there are big blocks competing against one another, and your population isn’t too small. Likely, WH falls into the latter due to the incredible difficulty of living there making many players simply not do that. I am a nerd on democracy and STV is among the most fair systems man has devised for most circumstances, and incredibly hard to ‘game’ to punch above your weight. I too wish WH folks get some voice there, or at least the representatives open their doors and ears to hear their oppressed voices. Maybe someday there will be Amarr/Minmatar FW folks on too. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Azariah](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mike_azariah/32/512626_2.png) [@Mike\_Azariah](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mike_Azariah)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2020, 2:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/35 "2020-06-16T02:38:02Z")
> [@Darik\_Acripher](#): > > I too wish WH folks get some voice there, or at least the representatives open their doors and ears to hear their oppressed voices. Maybe someday there will be Amarr/Minmatar FW folks on too. for the record? Yeah, bring it to me, explain it without screaming and I will listen. that goes for faction war, WH space, what have you. m ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2020, 3:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/36 "2020-06-16T03:44:25Z")
Please tell CCP that they have a sun glare problem. ---
**Author:** ![Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/geo_eclipse_oksaras/32/500781_2.png) [@Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Geo_Eclipse_Oksaras)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2020, 4:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/37 "2020-06-16T04:27:07Z")
I think @Brisc_Rubal is going to speak up for WH since there isn’t really any representation for WH on the next CSM anywhoo, congrats to you and brisc on getting in Mike… Glad to see it happen. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2020, 7:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/38 "2020-06-16T07:09:50Z")
There’d be no wastage in a flat tally. Im suprised to hear you saying this. But then again the Mike A I wanted to win doesnt seem to exist any more. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2020, 7:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/39 "2020-06-16T07:10:22Z")
> [@Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](#): > > I think @Brisc_Rubal is going to speak up for WH Thats some funny ■■■■ right there ---
**Author:** ![Avaelica\_Kuershin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/avaelica_kuershin/32/478139_2.png) [@Avaelica\_Kuershin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Avaelica_Kuershin)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2020, 11:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/41 "2020-06-16T11:04:15Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > The fact that nullsec has been massively overrepresented every year should be evidence in itself that it is flawed in this situation. What I take from nullsec being so well represented compared with hisec, is the general apathy of many in hisec. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2020, 11:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/43 "2020-06-16T11:24:16Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > they’ve not been represented failry I know its a typo, but I loled ---
**Author:** ![Rekindle](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rekindle/32/382332_2.png) [@Rekindle](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rekindle)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2020, 1:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/45 "2020-06-16T13:23:46Z")
> [@Foggy\_Bernstein](#): > > The CSM is the result of CCP employees getting caught with their hands in the cookie jar. CSM is CCPs response to placate and it seems that the community more or less bought it. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2020, 2:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/46 "2020-06-16T14:13:29Z")
1.) There would be no confusion over where Innominate’s votes came from if you guys actually watched the announcement presentation on Twitch. CCP Aurora did a great job visually showing where votes went as candidates were elected/eliminated under the single transferable vote system. He got most of his votes from Merkelchen and Icarus. 2.) This system actually benefits the unaligned candidates far more than it does the blocs. It ensures that if you fill your ballot completely, your vote will almost assuredly help somebody get elected. Without STV, there’s massive numbers of wasted votes, which can result in third tier candidates squeaking onto the CSM despite having little community support. Prior to the change in voting systems that happened in CSM 8 in 2013, people were getting elected as full CSM members with fewer than 800 votes (generally you need more than 2000 now), and some alternates were selected with fewer than 500. 3.) You can always get a WH CSM on provided that the WHer in question does two things: First, he has to get all the wormholers to vote for him and second, he needs to campaign and get on as many other ballots as he can. If Lorosecco hadn’t run, Exookiz would have won this time. If Exookiz hadn’t run, Loroseco may have won. WHers are notoriously unwilling to support folks they don’t like just to get their viewpoint represented, so they’re stuck with me for another year. Sucks to be them. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2020, 2:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/47 "2020-06-16T14:33:31Z")
In what way are you a wormhole representative? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954.md?page=3)