# CSM Vote Result confusion **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [June 14, 2020, 12:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954 "2020-06-14T12:53:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2020, 2:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/156 "2020-06-18T14:03:15Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > My opinions are opinions. My facts are facts. Yeah exactly what I said. Its only facts when you say it. My god, I really hope you dont wonder why people hate you and your Class. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2020, 2:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/157 "2020-06-18T14:05:48Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > Yeah exactly what I said. > > Its only facts when you say it. > > My god, I really hope you dont wonder why people hate you and your Class. It’s a shame that folks feel the need to hate someone else simply because they disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2020, 2:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/158 "2020-06-18T14:05:55Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > In real life, each person is inherently equal, and their choice of who represents them is no more or less valid than anybody else’s. Regardless of whether someone is rich, poor, smart, dumb, educated, uneducated - they each deserve the same say as anybody else in who their leaders are. Thus, one-person-one-vote should be the standard. If everyone is inherently equal why is there a history of disenfranchising specific parts of the electorate via legislation? ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2020, 2:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/159 "2020-06-18T14:08:38Z")
Oh troll on, McDuff. You havent even put forward anything to agree with. The record on how trustworthy and selfless anyone of the political class is stands for itself. You shouting into the wind that it isnt and how inaccurately judged you are is not going to change it. Politicians arent hated because they disagree with their constituents, its because that very point of disagreement is always ALWAYS in your favour. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2020, 2:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/160 "2020-06-18T14:08:48Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Why? Why is someone who plays one account day in-day out less important than someone that logs 10 alts on for 5 minutes a month to extract SP? Because that person contributes more to CCP’s bottom line. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Yet they don’t get it, because in the same way you’re stating that it’s totally fine for the rich and powerful in-game to have more say, the same gets said in real life and most politicians ultimately work for the highest bidder. This is a common perception, and one that I’ve found to not be true in my experience in politics. In the end, politicians will do what is popular with the largest number of voters, regardless of what the rich and powerful think, or how much money is given to them by a donor. Staying in office is one of their top priorities, and the minute they cross their constituents, even for a big donor, is the minute they lose their jobs. This conversation is the equivalent of you guys telling a NASA engineer you know better than they do how to build a rocket because you’ve spent a couple hours playing Kerbal and watched Apollo 13 a few times on HBO. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2020, 2:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/161 "2020-06-18T14:10:20Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > This is a common perception, and one that I’ve found to not be true in my experience in politics. He’s not going to villify himself, is he? Why would he admit to anything else. > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > In the end, politicians will do what is popular with the largest number of voters And thats the lie Im leaving this on. What a total snake oil salesman. And not a very good one. ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2020, 2:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/162 "2020-06-18T14:11:06Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > This conversation is the equivalent of you guys telling a NASA engineer you know better than they do how to build a rocket because you’ve spent a couple hours playing Kerbal and watched Apollo 13 a few times on HBO. I think you’ll find that people outside of the US know just as much, if not more, about US politics as most US citizens do; because when you sneeze we all catch a cold. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2020, 2:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/163 "2020-06-18T14:11:45Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > Oh troll on, McDuff. > > You havent even put forward anything to agree with. > > The record on how trustworthy and selfless anyone of the political class is stands for itself. > > You shouting into the wind that it isnt and how inaccurately judged you are is not going to change it. > > Politicians arent hated because they disagree with their constituents, its because that very point of disagreement is always ALWAYS in your favour. I’m not trolling. I’m being honest - it’s disappointing how unwilling some of you are to acknowledge your prejudices and try to fight them. Instead, you insist that you’re right and you put words in my mouth that I never said to try to win the argument. You group people into “classes” instead of looking at them as individuals. You take the bad behavior of one and attribute it to all. You stereotype. That’s what this whole thread really is, honestly. Again, I prefer to judge people by how the act, not what they look like, where they’re from, or what they do for a living. That’s how I was raised. I know not everyone feels that way, which is unfortunate. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2020, 2:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/164 "2020-06-18T14:13:13Z")
> [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](#): > > I think you’ll find that people outside of the US know just as much, if not more, about US politics than most US citizens do; because when you sneeze we all catch a cold. That may be true. At the same time, I’m not “most US citizens.” ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2020, 2:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/165 "2020-06-18T14:13:46Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > I prefer to judge people by how the act Yet you are arguing black is white BECAUSE you are in the… profession? Is that a better way to talk about the “job” of politician than Class? Way to cherry pick emotive words. Oh wait thats another thing you need to do to be a politician. WE _ARE_ JUDGING POLITICIANS BY HOW THEY ACT. AND HOW THEY HAVE ACTED FOR 200+ YEARS ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2020, 2:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/166 "2020-06-18T14:14:24Z")
Indeed, you’re not most US citizens. You’re on the inside looking out, whereas most of us are on the outside looking in; what you see as normal is seen by others as reprehensible. On a personal level I have no problem with you, on a general level I do have a problem with politicians; it may well be stereotyping but politicians have earned that stereotype over many centuries. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2020, 2:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/167 "2020-06-18T14:16:33Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > And thats the lie Im leaving this on. What a total snake oil salesman. > > And not a very good one. Not a lie. How often do you find politicians doing things that they know will alienate a majority of the people who elect them? Almost never. Because that’s the quickest way to getting thrown out of office, and that’s the thing they want least of all. I feel like I’m saying basic, obvious things. I can’t speak for other systems, but our system is a popularity contest, and you don’t win by doing things people don’t like. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2020, 2:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/168 "2020-06-18T14:17:50Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > How often do you find politicians doing things that they know will alienate a majority of the people who elect them? For fear of being silenced for mentioning real world politics, constantly. ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/d/7/d753f7cfbff98ee80e0fb2602e01c79e8179ae7c.jpeg) They do it because they know nothing will be done to either stop them or punish them. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2020, 2:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/169 "2020-06-18T14:19:30Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > Yet you are arguing black is white BECAUSE you are in the… profession? Is that a better way to talk about the “job” of politician than Class? Way to cherry pick emotive words. > > Oh wait thats another thing you need to do to be a politician. > > WE _ARE_ JUDGING POLITICIANS BY HOW THEY ACT. AND HOW THEY HAVE ACTED FOR 200+ YEARS I’m not arguing black is white. I’m providing you with my experience, which is a direct one that very few people have actual access to. It’s the difference between talking to a lawyer about the law and watching Law and Order with your girlfriend and talking to her about it. You’re judging a group of people based on the behavior of a few. It’s no different than saying one race of person is all bad because this person was bad, or all people from this country have this characteristic. Don’t do that. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2020, 2:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/170 "2020-06-18T14:20:40Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > They do it because they know nothing will be done to either stop them or punish them. So why aren’t you out there organizing against this? If you want these people to be stopped or punished, go do it. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2020, 2:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/172 "2020-06-18T14:21:14Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > You’re judging a group of people based on the behavior of a few. It’s no different than saying one race of person is all bad because this person was bad, or all people from this country have this characteristic. Don’t do that. I can name three politicians (maybe) that did good. I can name three dozen right now serving that are objectively doing harm. Its real REAL handy that because you are also one in RL that you cant actually provide any evidence to support your position. Typical. Politics. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2020, 2:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/173 "2020-06-18T14:21:21Z")
> [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](#): > > On a personal level I have no problem with you, on a general level I do have a problem with politicians; it may well be stereotyping but politicians have earned that stereotype over many centuries. Nobody deserves to be judged on things they haven’t done. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2020, 2:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/174 "2020-06-18T14:22:01Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > I can name three politicians (maybe) that did good. I can name three dozen right now serving that are objectively doing harm. > > Its real REAL handy that because you are also one in RL that you cant actually provide any evidence to support your position. > > Typical. Politics. So there are three people you are willing to judge based on their actions directly. That’s a good first step. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2020, 2:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/175 "2020-06-18T14:22:28Z")
Yeah Ill raise an army and besiege parliment while Im at it. “Why do you want to be poor” is basically what you said. Right, Im actually going to stop here. Im sorry to trouble you with this, Your Lordship, us peasants need to mind our place and learn to love those who stand on our backs. (NOte: The three I mentioned are historical examples long dead. The thirty are serving now. I notice how he ignores those) ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2020, 2:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/176 "2020-06-18T14:22:43Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > So why aren’t you out there organizing against this? If you want these people to be stopped or punished, go do it. Voter apathy; it doesn’t matter who you vote for, a politician always wins. > [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > us peasants need to mind our place Hush, or we’ll bring Oliver Cromwell back from the dead and put a hex on your potato crop. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954.md?page=7) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954.md?page=9)