# CSM Vote Result confusion **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [June 14, 2020, 12:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954 "2020-06-14T12:53:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2020, 2:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/179 "2020-06-18T14:32:41Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > How do you know? What if one person plays one account, pays their sub and buys 7430 plex a month and spends it on skins, MCT, etc while the other has 10 accounts, uses 5000 plex a month but pays nothing else and only logs in to farm SP? How is the guy paying CCP contributing less to CCPs bottom like than the guy farming SP and thus allowed one tenth of the voting power? The likelihood of somebody spending that much on the game and only having a single account is almost nil. In the end, in the vast majority of cases, the person with the most Omegas is going to end up spending more money and creating more content for CCP than someone with fewer. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Except that the financial backing allows them to win more voters, and denies the same finance to their rivals. They can then use misinformation and marketing tactics to convince people to vote however they need them to vote, whether it’s in the constituents’ best interests or not. There are dozens and dozens of examples of the candidates with more money losing to underfunded, more popular candidates. I can think of a half dozen off the top of my head. There’s always more money out there, and there’s always a big donor on both sides of any issue. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Not really, that’s just you being condescending. Not being a politician doesn’t mean we know nothing about politics or the tactics used by politicians to win over votes. Meanwhile, you have every reason to be defensive of politicians regardless of the facts while there’s no benefit to us bending the truth. No, it’s me being realistic. There’s almost nobody here, and certainly nobody in this thread, who has the education, training, and real world experience that I do on this topic. I have no reason to lie to you guys - you don’t live here and you’ll never vote or donate to me. Instead of taking advantage of someone being willing to be honest because there’s no downside (or upside to lying), you’d rather just throw mud. It’s sad. ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2020, 2:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/180 "2020-06-18T14:34:14Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > I have no reason to lie to you guys Maybe not, but you do have an inherent bias because politics is how you earn a crust. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2020, 2:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/181 "2020-06-18T14:36:05Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > Yeah Ill raise an army and besiege parliment while Im at it. One person can make a difference. > [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > “Why do you want to be poor” > > is basically what you said. Not what I said at all. What I said was why aren’t you out there trying to hold these folks accountable if you want them to be held accountable? This is a self-fulfilling prophecy. It’s why people don’t get involved, don’t vote, don’t run for office, and then sit around complaining about why everything sucks. You expect somebody else to do the work for you, because you’re too cynical to go do it yourself. That’s not how anything has ever gotten fixed. > [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > Im sorry to trouble you with this, Your Lordship, us peasants need to mind our place and learn to love those who stand on our backs. > > (NOte: The three I mentioned are historical examples long dead. The thirty are serving now. I notice how he ignores those) It’s easy to believe that people in the past were better than the folks we have now. I would also note that you didn’t say anything about those folks being long dead in your comment, lol. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2020, 2:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/182 "2020-06-18T14:38:00Z")
> [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](#): > > Maybe not, but you do have an inherent bias because politics is how you earn a crust. The money I earn still spends, regardless of what you think about it. Whether I’m biased or not doesn’t mean I’m going to lie or make things up - there’s no reason to do that. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2020, 2:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/183 "2020-06-18T14:40:19Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > One person can make a difference. Really? Pray tell how I have the PM deposed for gross misconduct? Pray tell how I deal with local politicians shady land deals? Without money or power, one person can do exactly jack squat because thats how the system is designed. > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > It’s why people don’t get involved, don’t vote, don’t run for office, and then sit around complaining about why everything sucks. You expect somebody else to do the work for you, because you’re too cynical to go do it yourself. See, you accuse us of making assumptions, then you do it yourself. Youve no basis to make that statement, and if you feel I have no basis to accuse Politicians of being corrupt lying sellouts, then at the very least that makes both our positions mean exactly nothing over the other. > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > It’s easy to believe that people in the past were better than the folks we have now. Just look up Mo Mowlam. The fact she is dead now doesnt change what I said one bit. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2020, 2:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/184 "2020-06-18T14:44:16Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > Really? Pray tell how I have the PM deposed for gross misconduct? Pray tell how I deal with local politicians shady land deals? You run against them. > [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > Without money or power, one person can do exactly jack squat because thats how the system is designed. You get a bunch of people together. Everybody gives a little, and soon you’ve got a group with money and power. It’s called organizing. It’s also called grassroots politics. > [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > See, you accuse us of making assumptions, then you do it yourself. Youve no basis to make that satement, and if you feel I have no basis to accuse Politicians of being corrupt lying sellouts, then at the very least that makes both our positions mean exactly nothign over the other. If you’ve tried and failed, than I at least give you credit for having tried. But all I’ve seen here is you complaining. You’ve not said you’ve done anything about the stuff you’re complaining about and you’ve had ample opportunity to do so, but you didn’t, so I felt like it was a safe assumption to make. If I’m wrong, then feel free to correct me. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2020, 2:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/185 "2020-06-18T14:46:50Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > You get a bunch of people together. Everybody gives a little, and soon you’ve got a group with money and power. It’s called organizing. It’s also called grassroots politics. No, then you have one person who has the money and power, and if they do get far enough, there’s nothing stopping them from breaking their promises and fitting in with all the other businessmen er I mean politicians. This is not possible to do without breaking the law, and once I advocate that, you will just take the moral high ground, ofc. > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > all I’ve seen here is you complaining. You’ve not said you’ve done anything about the stuff you’re complaining about and you’ve had ample opportunity to do so, but you didn’t, so I felt like it was a safe assumption to make. If I’m wrong, then feel free to correct me. And you havent proven any good that your or your cronies have allegedly done, so we are at a bit of an empass, arent we? ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2020, 2:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/187 "2020-06-18T14:51:18Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > This is not possible to do without breaking the law, and once I advocate that, you will just take the moral high ground, ofc. Of COURSE it’s possible to do without breaking the law. It happens all the time, at least in America. The small guy beating the big, well funded incumbent has been happening left and right, in both parties, over here for the last decade. It’s becoming so common it’s not even big news when it happens anymore. > [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > And you havent proven any good that your or your cronies have allegedly done, so we are at a bit of an empass, arent we? The definition of what is “good” and what is “bad” is subjective - there’s no point in my providing examples of politicians doing good things, because then you’ll just argue that what they did wasn’t actually good because our politics are different. And it’s also far beyond the point I’m trying to make in getting you guys to judge people are people, not as their profession. You’ve already admitted that there are politicians who you think are good (or may have been good), and I think that’s probably the closest I’m going to get to getting you to stop with the group prejudice. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2020, 2:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/188 "2020-06-18T14:52:29Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > So now you’re sterotyping? I thought you didn’t do that. > > Bear in mind that one person who has one account and plays it all year round is paying more than someone who has 10 accounts that they enable just for the one month voting period. There’s many ways to slice it where people with less accounts will contribute more than the people with the voting power. Not a stereotype. We’re talking about hypotheticals. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2020, 2:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/189 "2020-06-18T14:55:22Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > Of COURSE it’s possible to do without breaking the law. It happens all the time, at least in America. The small guy beating the big, well funded incumbent has been happening left and right, in both parties, over here for the last decade. It’s becoming so common it’s not even big news when it happens anymore. Sure. Guess thats why the bi-partisan system doesnt exist anymore. But Im sure you are waiting for me to say that and youve got some big (not cited) response to it. > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > You’ve already admitted that there are politicians who you think are good (or may have been good), and I think that’s probably the closest I’m going to get to getting you to stop with the group prejudice. There are people who are good IN SPITE of being in politics, not because of it. But by far the majority have PROVEN themselves to be untrustworthy selfish business types interested only in stuffingtheir pockets and stamping down those they dont like. Which you ignore in favour of a tiny minorty of good-doers THAT I HAD TO BRING UP BECAUSE YOU WOULDNT/COULDNT. Just because you choose to ignore this, even if you do think of yourself as a good person, doesnt mean anything other than it suits you. > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > The definition of what is “good” and what is “bad” is subjective And thats what seperates poiliticians from every other career, job, class, calling WHATEVER you want to call it. You know, I really feel that Im talking to a preacher now. And I hate religion even more than politics. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2020, 2:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/190 "2020-06-18T14:57:05Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > I’m not arguing black is white. I’m providing you with my experience, which is a direct one that very few people have actual access to. Wait. So you don’t think many of your fellow politicians are scumbags? No need to answer that, since you are on record. Interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2020, 2:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/192 "2020-06-18T14:59:10Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > And I hate religion even more than politics. I have pithy things to say about both, none of them are complimentary and all of them would probably incur the wrath of our lords and masters the ISD team. Edit, there’s something wrong in this thread; in a rare occurrence @Lucas_Kell and @Foggy_Bernstein are on the same page as myself and @Ramona_McCandless. Unlikely bedfellows indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2020, 3:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/193 "2020-06-18T15:10:43Z")
Maybe we should… no… the universe isnt ready for _that_ quite yet ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2020, 3:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/194 "2020-06-18T15:11:26Z")
I’m not sure that I’m ready for it either, whatever it is. ---
**Author:** ![Buoytender\_Bob](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/buoytender_bob/32/374377_2.png) [@Buoytender\_Bob](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Buoytender_Bob)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2020, 3:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/195 "2020-06-18T15:28:11Z")
People do love to paint with the broadest of brushes. While there have been plenty of past and current politicians who have left much to be desired in regards to honesty and self sacrifice, there also been plenty of exceptions to the stereotype many people have. Former Senator Paul Simon from my state was so honest he used to declare gifts like baked goods, hand made handkerchiefs, and other nick-nacks his constituents would send him on his income tax forms. Current Senator Tammy Duckworth had both legs blown off while flying helicopters in wartime, yet still wants to serve her country the best she can. There are honest and self sacrificing people in politics. Are they perfect? Who is? However, don’t let the most egregious cases color your opinion. Focus on the honest ones with a track record of service to the community, especially to people or groups outside their immediate demography. Yeah, the politician “class” has some major problems in general, but let us not fall into the general use of negatively stereotyping all of any one class no matter how many negative experiences we each have. The current CSM model is NOT perfect, but CCP has yet to offer a better one to us. Let’s try to use what little we have to make a better game. ---
**Author:** ![Magnus\_Carta](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/magnus_carta/32/210653_2.png) [@Magnus\_Carta](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Magnus_Carta)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2020, 3:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/196 "2020-06-18T15:29:41Z")
> [@Buoytender\_Bob](#): > > but CCP has yet to offer a better one to us There is, no CSM. It’s not needed. ---
**Author:** ![Mkikaden\_Tiragen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mkikaden_tiragen/32/243913_2.png) [@Mkikaden\_Tiragen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mkikaden_Tiragen)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2020, 3:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/197 "2020-06-18T15:38:08Z")
CCP isn’t offering is that option. ---
**Author:** ![Foggy\_Bernstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/foggy_bernstein/32/407887_2.png) [@Foggy\_Bernstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Foggy_Bernstein)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2020, 3:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/198 "2020-06-18T15:39:30Z")
> [@Buoytender\_Bob](#): > > Focus on the honest ones with a track record of service to the community, especially to people or groups outside their immediate demography. A person that sees something that people want done, gets elected on that issue, fixes it, and then doesn’t run again is an honest politician. A person groomed to make a career in politics, getting elected based on poll tested lies, collecting corporate bribes, parking his corrupt ass in the senate for 30 years, and then retiring into a cushy consulting job for the very corporations that kept him in power is not an honest politician. Which one do you think is 99% more common? ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2020, 3:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/199 "2020-06-18T15:54:50Z")
Some politician was reading the snake and woman fable once publicly. In my life I have seen a lot of hypocrisy tho, cant ever be sure with them… Even devil can read you a bible. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2020, 4:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954/200 "2020-06-18T16:00:16Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > And thats what seperates poiliticians from every other career, job, class, calling WHATEVER you want to call it. Of course it doesn’t. You don’t think that there are millions of people working right now who think they’re doing a good job and their manager doesn’t? Or they think their manager is doing a shitty job and they could do it better while she thinks she’s doing just fine? To think your political opinions are “good” and everybody else’s are “bad,” is kind of goofy. I’ve known some bad people in politics, including a number who went to jail. I’ve known a lot more good people who are working hard to do the right thing, even if that’s not always easy to define. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954.md?page=8) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-vote-result-confusion/248954.md?page=10)