# \[December\] UPDATED: Jump Fuel and Jump Fatigue Cap changes **URL:** \ **Category:** Upcoming Features & Changes\ **Created:** [November 16, 2017, 2:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710 "2017-11-16T14:33:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![theRaptor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/theraptor/32/240185_2.png) [@theRaptor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/theRaptor)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 5:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/209 "2017-11-16T17:28:54Z")
> [@Querns](#): > > I mean, if you want a massive titan brawl, go start one? Why do you always offer such dumb advice? I’m not a supercapital alliance mildir. > [@Querns](#): > > Why is the peanut gallery so invested in PVP action that they have no stake in? Well I’m in Horde so if we did have another apocalyptic titan brawl I’d be in it. > [@Querns](#): > > Also, you can have local production without being part of a mega-coalition. Maybe of a few items, but a small group simply won’t be able to gather all the resources and produce all the items. > [@Querns](#): > > I understand that this will require you to log in, however, so I can see where the disconnect lies. Pretty funny coming from a guy whose last PVP activity on his main was in August. ---
**Author:** ![Fafer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/fafer/32/487124_2.png) [@Fafer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Fafer)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 5:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/210 "2017-11-16T17:29:51Z")
Touching JFs is not good idea at this time. Regarding capital deployments, every big group has already capital caches around the universe, so they do not deploy capitals, they clonejump, or in worste case travel with inties or via wh. Supers are also not deployed much as they guard the home regions. ---
**Author:** ![Aiwha](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiwha/32/154714_2.png) [@Aiwha](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiwha)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 5:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/211 "2017-11-16T17:30:09Z")
We’d have been at two months when your changes dropped in december. But it looks like we were listened too and we got more fuel space and smaller fuel m3. ---
**Author:** ![Bulky\_Tree](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bulky_tree/32/38594_2.png) [@Bulky\_Tree](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bulky_Tree)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 5:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/212 "2017-11-16T17:31:33Z")
I have played WoW and “new content” isn´t the word I would use. Making a new map and new raids based on over a decade long mechanic system isn´t “new content”. It´s repackaging. EVE introduces new mechanics all the time and as a developer you should know the difference in time requried between those. And regarding balancing. WoW is never balanced, EVER! It´s probably the single hardest thing to do in a MMO. CCP manages pretty well imo. It is entitlement when you are disregarding the fact that they simply don´t have the resources to make it happen. I would agree with you if nothing else had changed during this time but they have launched several expansions since then right? So they have been working on the game, well needed changes, but they haven´t gotten around to fix that issue. Which I agree on is an issue. But they haven´t been slacking off and just lived lavishly off our subcription fees. I like the fact that we are moving away from caps. They shouldn´t be used as throwaways. 25billion…? Come to Delve, we got cheaper JFs:stuck\_out\_tongue: ---
**Author:** ![Querns](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/querns/32/157529_2.png) [@Querns](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Querns)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 5:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/213 "2017-11-16T17:31:55Z")
> [@theRaptor](#): > > Pretty funny coming from a guy whose last PVP activity on his main was in August. ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/c/3/c3cdac2438506fd2a69461081c8f3cd50eacb981.png) The killboard shaming. I’ve been had! There’s more to logging in than PVP. Hell, I take it as a point of pride that I _don’t_ show up on zkb very much. It means I’m good at what I do. You, in fact, need to log in quite a bit to make one’s own Delve. Try it, perhaps? ---
**Author:** ![Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugh_crow-slave/32/441552_2.png) [@Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugh_Crow-Slave)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 5:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/214 "2017-11-16T17:32:21Z")
doesn’t help the extra pain of bridging blops fleets though 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Bulky\_Tree](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bulky_tree/32/38594_2.png) [@Bulky\_Tree](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bulky_Tree)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 5:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/215 "2017-11-16T17:37:34Z")
I don´t get how you are making Delve into an inevitability. These mechanics you talk about are not that gamebreaking. Except for the Rorq. Delve has a huge population which makes the numbers possible. And getting to those numbers after the relocation is pushing a boulder up a hill. Honestly, the problem with Delve is the problem with the Imperium. That is a playerbase mistake. Pretty much everyone ganged up on them but didn´t finish them off. So the Imperium became determined to not let that happen again. New Eden created the behemoth, not CCP. ---
**Author:** ![Sexy\_Toddler](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sexy_toddler/32/38627_2.png) [@Sexy\_Toddler](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sexy_Toddler)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 5:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/216 "2017-11-16T17:38:09Z")
Whatever it is you’re smoking, I hope you brought enough for the rest of the class. ---
**Author:** ![Juvir\_Shadowborne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/juvir_shadowborne/32/23841_2.png) [@Juvir\_Shadowborne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Juvir_Shadowborne)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 5:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/217 "2017-11-16T17:38:11Z")
> [@CCP\_Fozzie](#): > > :Edit: The additional changes here have been added since encouraging people to refuel more often is not a primary goal of these changes so we are fine with preserving the post-Lifeblood jumps/fuelbay for JFs and keeping most of that benefit for other capitals as well. Additional reductions in isotope volume actually help with continued progress towards the overall nullsec trade goals of trade in lower volume items and local production of higher volume items. > > The end result combined with the isotope volume reduction last month is that most jump-capable ships will be able to jump 66% farther a fuel bay as they could pre-Lifeblood, Jump Freighters will be able to jump 100% farther on a fuel bay as they could pre-Lifeblood (the same distance as current post-Lifeblood TQ) and Black Ops will be able to jump ~114% father than pre-Lifeblood (~7% father than current TQ) This is still 34% reduced jump range per fuel bay from current for capitals that aren’t jump freighters. This isn’t an increase or a buff, it’s a nerf. Wording it to seem different doesn’t change that. The 1 day change to fatigue cap for pvp capitals doesn’t really balance this, because pvp capitals won’t be caught dead usually with a blue timer over 24 hours. We get (not everybody likes, but understands) why the fatigue system is in place, but the primary complaint has always been that the fuel bays were never large enough with the new jump ranges. We finally got that fix with the Isotope size reduction. Now you want to nerf it? What gives CCP? PvP capitals have been dumped on with nerf after nerf over the past year. We finally thought we were going to get a “little” love, something we’ve been asking for for years. Only to have some of it taken back from us? ---
**Author:** ![Matthew\_Reddy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/matthew_reddy/32/436807_2.png) [@Matthew\_Reddy](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Matthew_Reddy)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 5:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/218 "2017-11-16T17:40:08Z")
I think i worked out what is wrong at CCP, They keep trying to fix things. Pack it in and sell to EA already. ---
**Author:** ![theRaptor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/theraptor/32/240185_2.png) [@theRaptor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/theRaptor)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 5:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/219 "2017-11-16T17:40:53Z")
> [@Querns](#): > > There’s more to logging in than PVP. We were talking about PVP mate. Don’t go saying dumb ■■■■ like “hurr login more” to someone who logs in nearly every day to PVP. > [@Querns](#): > > Hell, I take it as a point of pride that I don’t show up on zkb very much. I mean personally I just try to keep the red down and green up. It’s not hard. > [@Querns](#): > > You, in fact, need to log in quite a bit to make one’s own Delve. Try it, perhaps? I bet I login to the game more than you do mate. It’s rare I miss a day to login and do logistics, recon, PVP, or teach newbies how to play this game because CCP can’t. Maybe save that lame insult for the bittervets who don’t have any active accounts. ---
**Author:** ![Nogik](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nogik/32/387132_2.png) [@Nogik](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nogik)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 5:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/220 "2017-11-16T17:41:56Z")
Фоззи, ты лучший! Ты знаешь как из конфетки сделать… ---
**Author:** ![Bulky\_Tree](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bulky_tree/32/38594_2.png) [@Bulky\_Tree](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bulky_Tree)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 5:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/221 "2017-11-16T17:43:38Z")
So wait, you are not in a supercapital alliance yet you are in Horde which isn´t part of a mega-coalition? I am very confused here man. Also I dont´t even wanna think about the time Querns put into this game. Thank you Querns for putting in the work to make Delve Delve. ---
**Author:** ![Gordonzero](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gordonzero/32/35083_2.png) [@Gordonzero](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gordonzero)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 5:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/222 "2017-11-16T17:43:44Z")
At the very least give us the ability to Upgrade the ice belts in Nullsec. but ya know … that would take forethought something Eve has never had. ---
**Author:** ![NEUNAN\_VIMES](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/neunan_vimes/32/238810_2.png) [@NEUNAN\_VIMES](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/NEUNAN_VIMES)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 5:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/223 "2017-11-16T17:45:46Z")
STOP THE MADNESS, The incremental roll back of Phoebe changes is too slow. Just do it already and give us our lives and our time back. Pre-Phoebe ranges and no stupid artificial timer will revitalize the ice market you are so worried about. ---
**Author:** ![theRaptor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/theraptor/32/240185_2.png) [@theRaptor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/theRaptor)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 5:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/224 "2017-11-16T17:48:56Z")
> [@Bulky\_Tree](#): > > So wait, you are not in a supercapital alliance yet you are in Horde which isn´t part of a mega-coalition? > > I am very confused here man. Well the confusion is because your reading skills aren’t very good. I said I wasn’t a supercapital alliance military director. The implication being that no matter how much I login I can’t just go start a supercap brawl. > [@Bulky\_Tree](#): > > Also I dont´t even wanna think about the time Querns put into this game. Thank you Querns for putting in the work to make Delve Delve. Oh you are a goon? That explains your posting. ---
**Author:** ![Ersio\_Heleneto](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ersio_heleneto/32/38544_2.png) [@Ersio\_Heleneto](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ersio_Heleneto)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 5:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/225 "2017-11-16T17:50:30Z")
This is better but still doesn’t address the issue of these changes making everything in nullsec more expensive due to jf costs. Even if you are producing locally the cost of importing the materials increases. So unless you can buy everything you need locally you are screwed. Changes that hinder smaller groups (and larger ones to an extent) wanting to live in null is not a change we need. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 5:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/226 "2017-11-16T17:51:55Z")
> [@theRaptor](#): > > There is a difference between bigger groups being quicker to optimise and mechanics that reward bigger groups but punish smaller groups. There really isn’t. There’s nothing in this change that’s inherently different if you’re in a 4-man corp or a 40,000 player alliance. You still need twice the topes to go the same distance. Economies of scale come into play with _economies_, ie: it’s easier for us to absorb this, in theory, because we have more JFs available (which actually means we’re just using _even more_ topes) and have a larger raw number of our people mining ice. But all of that is on the ‘optimized behaviors’ side of the ledger, not the ‘this mechanic includes a modifier based on alliance size’ side (if that even were a thing, but it’s not). ---
**Author:** ![Bulky\_Tree](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bulky_tree/32/38594_2.png) [@Bulky\_Tree](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bulky_Tree)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 5:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/227 "2017-11-16T17:53:55Z")
Ahh now I get it. But Horde is still part of a mega-coalition right? A bad one but that´s another issue entirely:p I am. And I am grateful for it since it´s great here. U should come join the glory:) ---
**Author:** ![theRaptor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/theraptor/32/240185_2.png) [@theRaptor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/theRaptor)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 5:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/228 "2017-11-16T17:55:34Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > There’s nothing in this change that’s inherently different if you’re in a 4-man corp or a 40,000 player alliance. Uh apart from the fact that the average 4-man corp would not have enough alts to gather all the resources and produce all the items needed for “local production” so now get to eat increased JF fuel costs. Why are people going to join the small null alliances outside colations and pay a significant markup over joining one of the mega-coalitions and getting cheap ■■■■? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710.md?page=10) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710.md?page=12)