# \[December\] UPDATED: Jump Fuel and Jump Fatigue Cap changes **URL:** \ **Category:** Upcoming Features & Changes\ **Created:** [November 16, 2017, 2:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710 "2017-11-16T14:33:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Betrayer\_of\_Hope](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/betrayer_of_hope/32/145972_2.png) [@Betrayer\_of\_Hope](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Betrayer_of_Hope)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 5:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/229 "2017-11-16T17:56:12Z")
> [@Ersio\_Heleneto](#): > > This is better but still doesn’t address the issue of these changes making everything in nullsec more expensive due to jf costs. Even if you are producing locally the cost of importing the materials increases. So unless you can buy everything you need locally you are screwed. Changes that hinder smaller groups (and larger ones to an extent) wanting to live in null is not a change we need. This right here. I’m sure many people appreciate larger fuel bays and smaller fuel volumes. But my concern is the dramatic increase in the cost of fuel. Haven’t you considered the repercussions this will have across new eden @CCP_Fozzie? ---
**Author:** ![Querns](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/querns/32/157529_2.png) [@Querns](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Querns)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 5:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/230 "2017-11-16T17:56:40Z")
> [@theRaptor](#): > > We were talking about PVP mate. Don’t go saying dumb ■■■■ like “hurr login more” to someone who logs in nearly every day to PVP. Incorrect, we were talking about local production. I get that it’s difficult to conceive of any other pursuit in this game other than 1 Hz Molasses Submarine Jousting, but do try to stay on the same page. ---
**Author:** ![Sakido\_Cain](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sakido_cain/32/38139_2.png) [@Sakido\_Cain](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sakido_Cain)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 5:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/231 "2017-11-16T17:56:45Z")
@Arrendis you are failing to see that would mean they have to put work into the game, rather than grueling everyday to pay some overlord rental fees. Some pilots just can’t be bothered to think for themselves and want to be spoon fed. ---
**Author:** ![theRaptor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/theraptor/32/240185_2.png) [@theRaptor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/theRaptor)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 5:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/232 "2017-11-16T17:57:02Z")
> [@Bulky\_Tree](#): > > Ahh now I get it. > > But Horde is still part of a mega-coalition right? A bad one but that´s another issue entirely:p Yep, and nothing I can do as part of a member of Horde is going to make another massive titan brawl happen. Except maybe ■■■■ post so hard that Goons invade the North with supercaps. > [@Bulky\_Tree](#): > > I am. And I am grateful for it since it´s great here. U should come join the glory:) No thanks, I enjoy winning wars. ---
**Author:** ![Querns](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/querns/32/157529_2.png) [@Querns](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Querns)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 5:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/233 "2017-11-16T17:57:49Z")
> [@theRaptor](#): > > Yep, and nothing I can do as part of a member of Horde is going to make another massive titan brawl happen. Not with that attitude, you won’t. Perhaps put forth some effort? ---
**Author:** ![Sakido\_Cain](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sakido_cain/32/38139_2.png) [@Sakido\_Cain](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sakido_Cain)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 5:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/234 "2017-11-16T17:58:33Z")
> [@theRaptor](#): > > Why are people going to join the small null alliances outside colations and pay a significant markup over joining one of the mega-coalitions and getting cheap ■■■■? Haha, cheap. If only you knew what cheap prices are!!! ---
**Author:** ![Alex\_Eltax](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alex_eltax/32/18530_2.png) [@Alex\_Eltax](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alex_Eltax)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 5:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/235 "2017-11-16T17:58:50Z")
> [@theRaptor](#): > > Goons, who are the ultimate blob, will feel nearly zero impact from JF nerfs as they can probably actually manage local production for nearly everything at below Jita costs. Hitting the nail on the head here, if CCP want null sec groups to be more self sufficient they need to make sure the tools are there to achieve it. Sadly that isn’t the case For example the rorqual is still in a sorry state a year after the rebalance so that now its either an isk making machine on a grand scale (looking at you Goons) or an expensive loot pinata (practically everyone else). Just look at the MER data to see what I mean. Perhaps fixing existing problems before introducing unwanted changes would be ideal? ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 5:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/236 "2017-11-16T17:58:55Z")
> [@gonoree](#): > > most of the times it’s a problem finding someone that wants to bring one/can fly one on those ops. This, like the problems some groups have in finding fleet logistics[1] pilots, seems to stem from social engineering problems: You need to get people who aren’t just there to pad their own killboards and e-peen, but primarily want to _contribute to the group_. They’re out there. And they want to be helpful. You just need to find them. 1. And holy CRAP, @CCP_Fozzie @CCP_Lebowski can we maybe change ‘Logistics Cruisers/Frigates’ to ‘Engineering Cruisers/Frigates’ or ‘Fleet Tenders/Light Tenders’ or something because what we do is in no way _logistics_ ---
**Author:** ![theRaptor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/theraptor/32/240185_2.png) [@theRaptor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/theRaptor)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 5:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/237 "2017-11-16T17:59:19Z")
> [@Querns](#): > > Not with that attitude, you won’t. Perhaps put forth some effort? I admire your devotion to low effort concern trolling. P.S. I still login more than you. ---
**Author:** ![Bulky\_Tree](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bulky_tree/32/38594_2.png) [@Bulky\_Tree](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bulky_Tree)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 5:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/238 "2017-11-16T17:59:21Z")
Heheh. Good luck on that. We hope so too:) Hehe what wars? Kinda cute but let´s not descend into reddit quality here. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 6:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/239 "2017-11-16T18:00:19Z")
> [@Delta\_Flux](#): > > Does this change impact black ops & titan bridges? IIRC, Titan bridges use a fixed amount of stront, not a mass-dependent amount of topes. ---
**Author:** ![Querns](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/querns/32/157529_2.png) [@Querns](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Querns)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 6:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/240 "2017-11-16T18:00:25Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > And holy CRAP, @CCP_Fozzie @CCP_Lebowski can we maybe change ‘Logistics Cruisers/Frigates’ to ‘Engineering Cruisers/Frigates’ or ‘Fleet Tenders/Light Tenders’ or something because what we do is in no way logistics “Auxiliaries” is the proper word, here. “Engineering” might work, but a “tender” is specifically a refueling vessel. ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/1/8/1820d2d75d15567172ba2c4de99b05710db958c0.png) ---
**Author:** ![Querns](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/querns/32/157529_2.png) [@Querns](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Querns)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 6:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/241 "2017-11-16T18:01:06Z")
> [@theRaptor](#): > > P.S. I still login more than you. Given your complaints about how local production is impossible for any group other than middle-sized ones like Goonswarm Federation, I doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![Bulky\_Tree](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bulky_tree/32/38594_2.png) [@Bulky\_Tree](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bulky_Tree)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 6:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/242 "2017-11-16T18:01:21Z")
If null sec groups want to be more self sufficient they perhaps need to make it happen themselves? Rorqs can be defended with small groups mate. But it actually means that there has to be a group that is willing to put into that work. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 6:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/243 "2017-11-16T18:01:58Z")
> [@Keno\_Skir](#): > > This is normal, defender should have the advantage of easier logistics since they are defending their patch and the aggressor has to come to them. Then you should never complain about ‘blue donuts’ or ‘lack of content’, and argue vociferously when others do. ---
**Author:** ![Gordonzero](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gordonzero/32/35083_2.png) [@Gordonzero](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gordonzero)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 6:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/244 "2017-11-16T18:02:56Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > IIRC, Titan bridges use a fixed amount of stront, not a mass-dependent amount of topes. it uses both actually. so yes the cost to bridge a fleet will probably go up as well. ---
**Author:** ![Namii\_Chikyuu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/namii_chikyuu/32/18644_2.png) [@Namii\_Chikyuu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Namii_Chikyuu)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 6:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/245 "2017-11-16T18:04:16Z")
why is it so hard for CCP to just adjust ore compositions versus all these changes to ships from rorqual and up? I mean changing a ore comp not only adjusts the excess that effects the market etc but also the stockpiles the large market manipulators use to put margins and prices in general where they want it. I dunno simple adjustments seem like more of a logical thing than weird off the wall ones that could be manipulated to cause a different problem. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 6:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/246 "2017-11-16T18:04:56Z")
> [@theRaptor](#): > > It is pretty easy to just go measure the length of reddit/forum posts about changes and see that some changes generate much more anger. Heh. Using reddit as a measuring stick for anything. That’s funny right there. ---
**Author:** ![theRaptor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/theraptor/32/240185_2.png) [@theRaptor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/theRaptor)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 6:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/247 "2017-11-16T18:05:22Z")
> [@Querns](#): > > Given your complaints about how local production is impossible for any group other than middle-sized ones like Goonswarm Federation, I doubt it. This is your other tactic. Where you present a false version of what your opponent says. I said these mechanics punish people who aren’t part of a mega-coalition. Not that “local production” (at even small scale because I know you will try and weasel the definition) was impossible for them. Also lol “middle-sized”. Is this the game where you pretend The Imperium is a group of mildly friendly alliances and not a mega-coalition while all your enemies who have ever shot you in the past year are part of a fully integrated coalition? ---
**Author:** ![Makalu\_Zarya](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/makalu_zarya/32/154380_2.png) [@Makalu\_Zarya](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Makalu_Zarya)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 6:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/248 "2017-11-16T18:07:26Z")
another glorious Fozzie change, making Eve worse 1 patch at a time. Who comes up with these garbage changes? “hey you know what will be fun? lets make caps twice as expensive, and then give them a totally useless jump fatigue reduction that doesn’t do f\*ck all” great change 10/10 can we have a vote of no confidence in Fozzie? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710.md?page=11) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710.md?page=13)