# \[December\] UPDATED: Jump Fuel and Jump Fatigue Cap changes **URL:** \ **Category:** Upcoming Features & Changes\ **Created:** [November 16, 2017, 2:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710 "2017-11-16T14:33:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Bulky\_Tree](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bulky_tree/32/38594_2.png) [@Bulky\_Tree](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bulky_Tree)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 7:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/329 "2017-11-16T19:05:02Z")
True. But it can´t be argued that Delve doesn´t export. No matter the numbers. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 7:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/330 "2017-11-16T19:05:46Z")
It can be argued that Delve doesn’t export in any really meaningful quantity, though. ---
**Author:** ![Alex\_Eltax](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alex_eltax/32/18530_2.png) [@Alex\_Eltax](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alex_Eltax)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 7:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/332 "2017-11-16T19:08:37Z")
Not my original idea, but was banded about as a counter to multibox more when CCP nerfed the excavators. Again. Could also provide variety over fighter choice (eg faster drones but with less mined amount, slower drones with more minerals mined etc) ---
**Author:** ![Igras\_Saisima](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/igras_saisima/32/38667_2.png) [@Igras\_Saisima](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Igras_Saisima)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 7:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/333 "2017-11-16T19:08:46Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > MMmmno, it was more like ‘the leadership of both groups’ (and yes, PL is a decentralized ‘every man a king’ state, but I promise, when Elise and Grath put their feet down, they get their way, period). The fact that those corps are in alliances shows that even though they do have a fundamental problem with the idea of blues, they’re willing to grit their teeth and piss and moan while they do it in order to maintain a level of military parity. > > But, you know, perspective like that comes from consistent exposure over time. 🤓 ---
**Author:** ![theRaptor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/theraptor/32/240185_2.png) [@theRaptor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/theRaptor)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 7:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/334 "2017-11-16T19:08:50Z")
> [@Querns](#): > > I mean, I’m not wrong. Everything we’ve built in Delve is not some unique anomaly – it can be recreated virtually anywhere in Eve with the application of effort and logging in. Uh huh, now if you go back to where you first broke out “durr log in” you’ll see the comments had nothing to do with me wanting to build another Delve. > [@Querns](#): > > Since no one has bothered, I can naturally assume that the logging in portion is the problem. See anyone else who had some introspection might instead question whether their assumption was true. I certainly see plenty of people pretty much no-life-ing this game so I doubt your assumption is true. > [@Querns](#): > > Delve certainly isn’t a thing due to a reserve of talent or intellect on our part – everyone knows that Goonswarm Federation is the least-capable alliance in Eve. Goons need to get over this whole “we pretend we are ■■■■ so it doesn’t hurt when people call us ■■■■” defensive mechanism. > [@Querns](#): > > Also, you’re the one who brought up PL. I’m not really sure why. No you bought them up, just not by name. But everyone knows who you were referring to. ---
**Author:** ![Igras\_Saisima](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/igras_saisima/32/38667_2.png) [@Igras\_Saisima](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Igras_Saisima)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 7:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/335 "2017-11-16T19:09:24Z")
> [@Querns](#): > > I mean, I’m not wrong. Everything we’ve built in Delve is not some unique anomaly – it can be recreated virtually anywhere in Eve with the application of effort and logging in. Since no one has bothered, I can naturally assume that the logging in portion is the problem. Delve certainly isn’t a thing due to a reserve of talent or intellect on our part – everyone knows that Goonswarm Federation is the least-capable alliance in Eve. > > Also, you’re the one who brought up PL. I’m not really sure why. 🤓 ---
**Author:** ![Haplo\_Shannow](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/haplo_shannow/32/272309_2.png) [@Haplo\_Shannow](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Haplo_Shannow)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 7:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/336 "2017-11-16T19:10:45Z")
You can actually measure salt on reddit. ---
**Author:** ![StainGuy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stainguy/32/21896_2.png) [@StainGuy](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/StainGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 7:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/337 "2017-11-16T19:14:58Z")
Like seriously work on the relationship with the players. Instead of trying to get players behind the CCP and the game - each change of this type makes more and more players angry. You don’t play game to be angry on it, you play to have fun. Like seriously work on the fun part of the game as this game is going in a very bad direction. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 7:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/338 "2017-11-16T19:16:41Z")
Reddit will only let you measure the salt _on reddit_. It will not actually give you an accurate measure of the entire playerbase. Many of us prefer to talk to our CSMs and address our concerns via other avenues (like 6k+ word editorials) rather than using a site where the validity of concerns being drowned out by the ‘who is /r/eve pissed at _today_?’ downvoting and mob mentality is amplified further by demonstrably biased moderators. ---
**Author:** ![theRaptor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/theraptor/32/240185_2.png) [@theRaptor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/theRaptor)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 7:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/339 "2017-11-16T19:18:23Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Many of us prefer to talk to our CSMs There are dozens of you! ---
**Author:** ![Bulky\_Tree](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bulky_tree/32/38594_2.png) [@Bulky\_Tree](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bulky_Tree)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 7:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/340 "2017-11-16T19:18:36Z")
A net export graph says nothing about the real values of import/export. It´s a weighted graph, thereby being useless for precision regarding imports and exports. Now, a graph of “real” values doesn´t say much either because of the argument you made earlier. The above is technical and doesn´t say much about the real facts. Goons export alot I´m sure, hitting with a logistical nerf is a way to “nerf” Delve. Amongst other things, I find the potential changes to be interesting overall. But we will have to wait until they play out. ---
**Author:** ![Querns](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/querns/32/157529_2.png) [@Querns](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Querns)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 7:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/341 "2017-11-16T19:19:07Z")
> [@theRaptor](#): > > Uh huh, now if you go back to where you first broke out “durr log in” you’ll see the comments had nothing to do with me wanting to build another Delve. Sure they did – you claimed that being part of a mega-coalition was necessary to take advantage of local production. It’s not – you just need to log in and actually play the game. It’s not a hard concept to understand. > [@theRaptor](#): > > Goons need to get over this whole “we pretend we are ■■■■ so it doesn’t hurt when people call us ■■■■” defensive mechanism. Who’s pretending? Being aware of your own limitations is very important. Besides, if one thinks that they’re the best, how could they ever engage in improvement? > [@theRaptor](#): > > No you bought them up, just not by name. But everyone knows who you were referring to. You admitted you weren’t around for the period of time in question, so you can’t actually say with any certainty. It’s your assumption, and yours alone. ---
**Author:** ![John\_McCreedy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/john_mccreedy/32/379136_2.png) [@John\_McCreedy](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/John_McCreedy)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 7:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/342 "2017-11-16T19:22:16Z")
As someone who has played this game from it’s very beginning, and seen various generations of devs, I can tell you that the disconnect between you guys, the developers, and us, the players, has never been greater. Ham fisted approaches to problems, a hostile attutude towards certain segments of the player base, and a lack of wider communication is creating unnecessary discontent within the community. Rather than announcing a stream of unpopular changes, start asking what we think needs improvement and then go away and work on that. Start talking to players again, rather than antagonising them. ---
**Author:** ![Querns](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/querns/32/157529_2.png) [@Querns](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Querns)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 7:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/343 "2017-11-16T19:23:38Z")
> [@John\_McCreedy](#): > > Rather than announcing a stream of unpopular changes, start asking what we think needs improvement and then go away and work on that. Start talking to players again, rather than antagonising them. To be fair, this is a pretty difficult proposition. Most of the players in this game are ungrateful gits who cannot be trusted to dress themselves, much less have a valuable, objective opinion. ---
**Author:** ![theRaptor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/theraptor/32/240185_2.png) [@theRaptor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/theRaptor)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 7:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/344 "2017-11-16T19:24:48Z")
[Lol replied to the wrong comment, how do I delete the reply link?] > [@Querns](#): > > you claimed that being part of a mega-coalition was necessary to take advantage of local production. Nope. > [@Querns](#): > > Who’s pretending? Goons. > [@Querns](#): > > Being aware of your own limitations is very important. Uh huh, and Goons have some brilliant minds and very obviously have the best industrial system of that size in the game. > [@Querns](#): > > Besides, if one thinks that they’re the best, how could they ever engage in improvement? There is a difference between thinking you are the best and acting like you are the worst. > [@Querns](#): > > You admitted you weren’t around for the period of time in question, so you can’t actually say with any certainty. It’s your assumption, and yours alone. You have opened my eyes. I see now how the Moon landings might have been faked because I wasn’t around when they happened. > [@Querns](#): > > It’s your assumption, and yours alone. Arrendis backed it up and he seems like a cool dude. ---
**Author:** ![Bulky\_Tree](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bulky_tree/32/38594_2.png) [@Bulky\_Tree](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bulky_Tree)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 7:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/345 "2017-11-16T19:26:45Z")
Haven´t been around as long as you but I concur. However, that´s disregarding our behaviour in all of this. I don´t think CCP woke up one day and said “hey lets talk to the players a lot less”. It´s because of this thread, because of reddit. There are ways to talk to CCP I´m sure, but chanting \*\*\*\* Fozzie and things like that won´t bring about changes. Not the ones we want anyways. It´s just going to make the devs listen less and unfortunately good ideas being neglected. All in all, you are right. But we as a playerbase kinda have it coming. ---
**Author:** ![Querns](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/querns/32/157529_2.png) [@Querns](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Querns)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 7:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/346 "2017-11-16T19:29:57Z")
> [@theRaptor](#): > > Nope. > [@theRaptor](#): > > It’s people pointing out that all these changes do is punish those who aren’t part of a mega-coalition. If that’s the case let’s just remove jump fatigue and go back to two groups owning all of null as that is effectively what “local production” will achieve. At leas then we might get a massive titan brawl occasionally. ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/4/6/46c6f41b93e9025768582317dd2a6004e48452db.gif) ---
**Author:** ![theRaptor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/theraptor/32/240185_2.png) [@theRaptor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/theRaptor)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 7:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/347 "2017-11-16T19:33:34Z")
Okay now read what you quoted and tell me how you got “being part of a mega-coalition was necessary to take advantage of local production” out of it. Hint: I already explained to Arrendis that I was talking about JF costs compounding the undesirableness of small groups who would need to import goods due to inability to be self-sufficient in local production. ---
**Author:** ![Tiber\_Galient](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tiber_galient/32/154838_2.png) [@Tiber\_Galient](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tiber_Galient)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 7:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/348 "2017-11-16T19:33:41Z")
@CCP_Fozzie why did you asume out of all our post get that giving us the reduced range per full fuel bay was the main issue. It just nerfed it to prelifeblood. Don’t take me wrong, i like some extra fuel cargo space, but it doesn’t inpact my costs. Even people who do alliance logistics, ur still always going back too a fuel point. ---
**Author:** ![Querns](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/querns/32/157529_2.png) [@Querns](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Querns)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 7:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/349 "2017-11-16T19:35:24Z")
> [@theRaptor](#): > > Hint: I already explained to Arrendis that I was talking about JF costs compounding the undesirableness of small groups who would need to import goods due to inability to be self-sufficient in local production. Talk about a Sisyphean pursuit. You do know that you can’t actually be self-sufficient in nullsec, right? Everything T2 and T3 requires some importing. Delve itself is a net importer. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710.md?page=16) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710.md?page=18)