# \[December\] UPDATED: Jump Fuel and Jump Fatigue Cap changes **URL:** \ **Category:** Upcoming Features & Changes\ **Created:** [November 16, 2017, 2:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710 "2017-11-16T14:33:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Crash\_888](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/crash_888/32/357008_2.png) [@Crash\_888](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Crash_888)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/370 "2017-11-16T20:14:04Z")
inb4 increase gets dialed down “in response to your feedback” to the amount it was originally intended to be anyway and nerds calm down ---
**Author:** ![Querns](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/querns/32/157529_2.png) [@Querns](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Querns)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 8:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/371 "2017-11-16T20:15:18Z")
> [@theRaptor](#): > > The savings is they are producing enough of the local goo and by-products to combine with some imported goo to make T2. And obviously have all the characters with the skills required to do those chains efficiently. I wish we had the organizational capacity that everyone seems to ascribe to us. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale\_Pirannha](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dinsdale_pirannha/32/254927_2.png) [@Dinsdale\_Pirannha](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dinsdale_Pirannha)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 8:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/372 "2017-11-16T20:15:24Z")
So, CCP is now dramatically reducing the biggest nerf that the null sec cartels whined about. Distances per fuel bay are going way way up, just like the cartels want. Nice job CCP. ---
**Author:** ![Bulky\_Tree](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bulky_tree/32/38594_2.png) [@Bulky\_Tree](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bulky_Tree)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 8:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/373 "2017-11-16T20:17:24Z")
3 hours in, theRaptor and Querns still going at it:) theRaptor. No change will hit big groups as much as small groups. You know why? Because big groups are big groups just to ensure that no changes will hit them equally hard. It´s the basis of society man. CCP cannot make changes based on the “little guy”. That person/entity simply doesn´t have the power to break the game. These changes can rather be seen as import/export barriers to promote regional advancement. CCP is imo doing something very interesting here. But will the “little guy” get hurt. Surely. They are ants under the feet of elephants. Not much will change that honestly. ---
**Author:** ![theRaptor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/theraptor/32/240185_2.png) [@theRaptor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/theRaptor)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 8:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/374 "2017-11-16T20:18:42Z")
You’ve completely missed my point. My concern, apart from the increased cost of major capital moves which rarely happen anyway, is that changes like this punish small null groups. Yet CCP keep making other negative changes which they say are to benefit small null groups. What’s the point of a ■■■■ sov system “to benefit small groups” if everyone is squeezed into major groups through economics anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Querns](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/querns/32/157529_2.png) [@Querns](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Querns)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 8:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/375 "2017-11-16T20:21:07Z")
> [@theRaptor](#): > > You’ve completely missed my point. My concern, apart from the increased cost of major capital moves which rarely happen anyway, is that changes like this punish small null groups. Yet CCP keep making other negative changes which they say are to benefit small null groups. This is your chance to affect positive change. What could CCP do to make small groups thrive in nullsec? ---
**Author:** ![theRaptor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/theraptor/32/240185_2.png) [@theRaptor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/theRaptor)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 8:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/376 "2017-11-16T20:23:17Z")
> [@Bulky\_Tree](#): > > No change will hit big groups as much as small groups. You know why? Because big groups are big groups just to ensure that no changes will hit them equally hard. It´s the basis of society man. I know. And I’ve replied to this exact sentiment many times. But CCP try and justify changes because of small groups while making them economically nonviable > [@Bulky\_Tree](#): > > CCP cannot make changes based on the “little guy”. That person/entity simply doesn´t have the power to break the game. These changes can rather be seen as import/export barriers to promote regional advancement. CCP is imo doing something very interesting here. Well one of the explicit design goals of the current sov system was to stop the map being divided between two major blocs and give space for smaller groups to prosper. That has pretty much been a complete failure as the map is largely divided between the two major blocs and their bluetrals. The nonaligned groups that are currently holding sov are almost all PVP alliances that only hold sov for a few months before being pushed out to make room for renters. ---
**Author:** ![Sakido\_Cain](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sakido_cain/32/38139_2.png) [@Sakido\_Cain](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sakido_Cain)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 8:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/377 "2017-11-16T20:23:53Z")
> [@theRaptor](#): > > The end result will be that almost everyone who isn’t entirely PVP focused will end up joining one of the mega-coalitions. You realize that a large amount of both The Imperium and PanFam are purely PvP players. Most of your big bloc players have hardcore PvPers that enjoy the fruits of cheap items, safe harbor and good logistic support. ---
**Author:** ![Querns](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/querns/32/157529_2.png) [@Querns](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Querns)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 8:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/378 "2017-11-16T20:24:26Z")
> [@theRaptor](#): > > That has pretty much been a complete failure as the map is largely divided between the two major blocs and their bluetrals. We own four regions, so I am forced to conclude that you consider the remaining nullsec regions in a single bloc. That seems like y’all’s problem, not ours. ---
**Author:** ![theRaptor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/theraptor/32/240185_2.png) [@theRaptor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/theRaptor)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 8:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/379 "2017-11-16T20:26:30Z")
> [@Querns](#): > > This is your chance to affect positive change. What could CCP do to make small groups thrive in nullsec? I’m not even going to pretend to have the answers. I can only see problems with current mechanics. And the answers I do have would have other negative consequences (eg “compact the production skills and reduce gating mechanics like job slots to make it feasible to produce anything without needing an army of alts”, which impacts the gameplay of niche producers in large groups). ---
**Author:** ![Graabeerd\_Khagah](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/graabeerd_khagah/32/143697_2.png) [@Graabeerd\_Khagah](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Graabeerd_Khagah)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 8:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/380 "2017-11-16T20:26:38Z")
@CCP_Fozzie, I can not for the life of me see how Jump Fatique hasn’t been removed PERIOD, the last time using jump bridges costed ME 30 DAYS of game time wasted waiting on the timer to EXPIRE, What’s a poor broke pirate to do? :(:(☹ ---
**Author:** ![Fish\_Hunter](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/fish_hunter/32/248430_2.png) [@Fish\_Hunter](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Fish_Hunter)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 8:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/381 "2017-11-16T20:27:05Z")
Only meaningful thing that could be done is same reason why small groups proliferate wormholes. PVE content is limited at any given time per system (it doesn’t really matter if you can complete the pve in 10 min or 1 hour it is worth what it is) and travel routes are not constant. Laughable i know but SOV Nullsec is designed for large groups not for small probably what the raptor is ignoring. ---
**Author:** ![Luna\_TheMoonrider](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/luna_themoonrider/32/147647_2.png) [@Luna\_TheMoonrider](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Luna_TheMoonrider)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 8:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/382 "2017-11-16T20:27:12Z")
Use an industrial for jump bridge? ---
**Author:** ![Bulky\_Tree](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bulky_tree/32/38594_2.png) [@Bulky\_Tree](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bulky_Tree)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 8:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/383 "2017-11-16T20:28:25Z")
I don´t necessarily disagree with you here. But how can they do this differently? I mean how can they help the “little guy”? If you are a small corp in nullsec without an alliance to back you up then you will have a hard time yes. But there are ways for you to enter null without too much hassle, renting is one example. I get what you are saying but the problem is rooted in the playerbase, nothing CCP really does can affect that people want to do other stuff than just PVP all the time. I don´t. Perhaps it´s time to forget about how EVE used to be and adapt to what EVE is today? ---
**Author:** ![Querns](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/querns/32/157529_2.png) [@Querns](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Querns)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 8:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/384 "2017-11-16T20:28:45Z")
> [@Graabeerd\_Khagah](#): > > I can not for the life of me see how Jump Fatique hasn’t been removed PERIOD, the last time using jump bridges costed ME 30 DAYS of game time wasted waiting on the timer to EXPIRE, What’s a poor broke pirate to do? :(:(☹ Dear god, did you just log off in frustration a year ago or something? Fatigue has been capped at 5 days for a long time now. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 8:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/385 "2017-11-16T20:29:21Z")
To be fair, though, one of our CSMs is Aryth, and he does his best to make sure none of us want to talk to him. ---
**Author:** ![theRaptor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/theraptor/32/240185_2.png) [@theRaptor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/theRaptor)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 8:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/386 "2017-11-16T20:29:22Z")
> [@Querns](#): > > We own four regions, so I am forced to conclude that you consider the remaining nullsec regions in a single bloc. That seems like y’all’s problem, not ours. Except Panfam+bluetrals is a reaction to the Imperium and game mechanics. As Arrendis said most of PL/NC. would be happy to shed weight if they could achieve their military objectives without needing to be allied with tens of thousands of people. ---
**Author:** ![Querns](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/querns/32/157529_2.png) [@Querns](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Querns)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 8:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/387 "2017-11-16T20:30:37Z")
> [@theRaptor](#): > > Except Panfam+bluetrals is a reaction to the Imperium and game mechanics. As Arrendis said most of PL/NC. would be happy to shed weight if they could achieve their military objectives without needing to be allied with tens of thousands of people. How could this possibly be? We were effortlessly destroyed in 2016, and the two times we’ve tried to do military things outside of Delve have ended in spectacular failure. How could those groups possibly be afraid of us still? ---
**Author:** ![Bulky\_Tree](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bulky_tree/32/38594_2.png) [@Bulky\_Tree](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bulky_Tree)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 8:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/388 "2017-11-16T20:31:33Z")
Which is the basis of, yet again, society. Current Panfam is born out of necessity. This isn´t CCPs fault. Besides, irrc Panfam has always done this, not always out of need but wants. ---
**Author:** ![Bulky\_Tree](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bulky_tree/32/38594_2.png) [@Bulky\_Tree](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bulky_Tree)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 8:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/389 "2017-11-16T20:32:19Z")
I see what you did there Querns!! Well played! [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710.md?page=18) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710.md?page=20)