# \[December\] UPDATED: Jump Fuel and Jump Fatigue Cap changes **URL:** \ **Category:** Upcoming Features & Changes\ **Created:** [November 16, 2017, 2:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710 "2017-11-16T14:33:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![Querns](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/querns/32/157529_2.png) [@Querns](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Querns)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 12:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/533 "2017-11-18T00:43:21Z")
> [@Tappits](#): > > Who said anything about waiting for goons to make 1st move? If you really think anyone but goons care what goons are doing you are mistaken No one at all wants to fight you it’s just a waste of time (because of the time needed to do it and the fact that you can just move and set up again nbd as shown over the last 2 years) I mean, it’s y’all’s own fault that you were too lazy to actually finish us off, so why are you complaining again? If you don’t like what we’re doing, you have an avenue of redress. However, we are under no obligation to make it fun for you. > [@Tappits](#): > > Maybe PanFam Legacy GOTG Provi and Vanguard can all blue up and live in a single region too and be like goons but 1: that would be terribly boring 2: very bad for the game 3: never going to happen. > > Just because you are doing something does not mean it’s what every one else wants The idea that you or anyone in this game actively sacrifices for “the good of the game” is fu​cking absurd. Anyone claiming that a player group needs to act in the “best interest” of the game automatically cannot be trusted to dress themselves, let alone be trusted to have an opinion even resembling valuable. You don’t need to be our size to make this sort of thing work. You do, however, need to actually engage in pursuits other than complaining on forums. I don’t want to give you a conniption, but it may require you to log in and actually play the game. ---
**Author:** ![Matthias\_Ancaladron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/matthias_ancaladron/32/128799_2.png) [@Matthias\_Ancaladron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Matthias_Ancaladron)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 1:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/534 "2017-11-18T01:03:59Z")
Idk about all caps but I feel dreads should out range carriers since dreads counter carriers. Why can carriers just zip across double the distance of a dread (almost double or 50% further iirc) the hunter should outrange the prey. I’d say double all jump distances regardless. ---
**Author:** ![Querns](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/querns/32/157529_2.png) [@Querns](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Querns)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 1:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/535 "2017-11-18T01:06:06Z")
> [@Matthias\_Ancaladron](#): > > Idk about all caps but I feel dreads should out range carriers since dreads counter carriers. Why can carriers just zip across double the distance of a dread (almost double or 50% further iirc) the hunter should outrange the prey. Hello, traveler from the past! In this timeline, dreads and carriers both have the same 7 LY jump range. ---
**Author:** ![Matthias\_Ancaladron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/matthias_ancaladron/32/128799_2.png) [@Matthias\_Ancaladron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Matthias_Ancaladron)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 1:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/536 "2017-11-18T01:12:39Z")
Since when? The update? I don’t remember reading about dreads ever getting a buff in the last change. I know jump and carriers got buffed. But dreads were like 3.5 au base last time I checked ---
**Author:** ![Querns](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/querns/32/157529_2.png) [@Querns](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Querns)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 1:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/537 "2017-11-18T01:13:25Z")
> [@Matthias\_Ancaladron](#): > > Since when? The update? I don’t remember reading about dreads ever getting a buff in the last change. I know jump and carriers got buffed. But dreads were like 3.5 au last time I checked. 7 LY is with JDC5. (No one undocks caps without JDC 5.) Both dreads and carriers have had equal jump range since Phoebe. ---
**Author:** ![Matthias\_Ancaladron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/matthias_ancaladron/32/128799_2.png) [@Matthias\_Ancaladron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Matthias_Ancaladron)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 1:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/538 "2017-11-18T01:14:22Z")
Screw calibration. That’s not base. It should be 7.5-10 base. ---
**Author:** ![Querns](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/querns/32/157529_2.png) [@Querns](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Querns)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 1:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/539 "2017-11-18T01:18:14Z")
> [@Matthias\_Ancaladron](#): > > Screw calibration. That’s not base. It should be 7.5-10 base. Nah. Current jump ranges are fine. They make geography a strategic concern. ---
**Author:** ![Matthias\_Ancaladron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/matthias_ancaladron/32/128799_2.png) [@Matthias\_Ancaladron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Matthias_Ancaladron)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 1:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/540 "2017-11-18T01:19:07Z")
Nah. It takes to long to move around. It should be increased. ---
**Author:** ![Querns](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/querns/32/157529_2.png) [@Querns](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Querns)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 1:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/541 "2017-11-18T01:30:25Z")
> [@Matthias\_Ancaladron](#): > > Nah. It takes to long to move around. It should be increased. Moving around is for deployments. Commit to an area of space. ---
**Author:** ![Matthias\_Ancaladron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/matthias_ancaladron/32/128799_2.png) [@Matthias\_Ancaladron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Matthias_Ancaladron)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 1:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/542 "2017-11-18T01:34:07Z")
Nah. People should be able to go where they want when they want. You shouldn’t be locked into one area. That’s why the game stagnates cause people huddle up in clusters. You get more conflict with constant ebb and flow ---
**Author:** ![Querns](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/querns/32/157529_2.png) [@Querns](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Querns)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 1:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/543 "2017-11-18T01:37:43Z")
> [@Matthias\_Ancaladron](#): > > Nah. People should be able to go where they want when they want. You shouldn’t be locked into one area. That’s why the game stagnates cause people huddle up in clusters. You get more conflict with constant ebb and flow You mean the wonderful period of “ebb and flow” when two groups owned all of nullsec, because there was no fatigue and double the jump range? Yeah, no. People can continue to go wherever they want now, anyways – it’s not like fatigue or jump ranges prevent you from going anywhere, period. ---
**Author:** ![Spc\_One](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/spc_one/32/399501_2.png) [@Spc\_One](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Spc_One)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 3:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/544 "2017-11-18T03:22:57Z")
> [@ll\_Kuray\_ll](#): > > How? You’ve ripped the arse out of capital ship deployment by introducing jump fatigue followed the recent cap changes. I remember it was CCP Greyscale that introduced jump fatigue. ---
**Author:** ![Monasucks](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/monasucks/32/249693_2.png) [@Monasucks](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Monasucks)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 2:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/545 "2017-11-18T14:27:06Z")
What if, in order to get people to use capitals more often, we make using capitals more expensive and shitty? ---
**Author:** ![Sakido\_Cain](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sakido_cain/32/38139_2.png) [@Sakido\_Cain](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sakido_Cain)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 2:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/546 "2017-11-18T14:30:26Z")
> [@Querns](#): > > You don’t need 40k people to make a Delve. You just need a couple dozen who are willing to log in. It’s not like all 40k of our guys are simultaneously logged in, each with a nyx and twelve apostles on standby in 1DQ1-A. Oh no, we only have 200 guys, and that can’t compete with Goons, what shall we do? Here is a thought, do the same thing Goons are doing, just on a smaller scale. If you can’t fill a region full of active dudes, scale down to a decent constellation, get a few more friends, join a small alliance/coalition. You don’t have to make massive blue donuts, but can make a small force that fills a smaller amount of space. Then do this simple thing called working as a team, organize based on skills and desires, set up protection fleets for your miners, maintain defenses on factories and citadels, then prosper. If you do it right, you can have 9-10 groups living in a single region, most being neutral to each other and fighting among yourselves all day long. Don’t think this is so, look at Querious, it might be controlled by Goons, but the fight club isn’t a blue donut, but it does come together when outside forces attack it. You don’t have to have an overlord to do it yourself, just man up, use your diplos and build a home that can be successful. ---
**Author:** ![Gaius\_Clabbacus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gaius_clabbacus/32/131897_2.png) [@Gaius\_Clabbacus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gaius_Clabbacus)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 2:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/547 "2017-11-18T14:33:34Z")
Going through this thread there are only a few posters complaining about fuel costs, and others are mostly ranting on other issues. The logical conclusion is that the fuel costs themselves are not a big issue. I appreciate the larger fuel bay capacity. It is quite ridiculous to assume that people will stop using carriers and dreads in PvP just because there may be an additional 10-15m in jump fuel costs. JF pilots may be impacted but can always adjust their hauling prices (and if they jump a lot for personal business they are rich f\*ckers and should not complain). ---
**Author:** ![Sakido\_Cain](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sakido_cain/32/38139_2.png) [@Sakido\_Cain](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sakido_Cain)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 2:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/548 "2017-11-18T14:47:32Z")
> [@Matthias\_Ancaladron](#): > > Nah. It takes to long to move around. It should be increased. I feel you are correct and the time it takes to move needs to be fixed, but jump ranges are basically fine as is. Reduction in jump fatigue is what we need, rather than range. ---
**Author:** ![Sakido\_Cain](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sakido_cain/32/38139_2.png) [@Sakido\_Cain](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sakido_Cain)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 2:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/549 "2017-11-18T14:51:57Z")
> [@Gaius\_Clabbacus](#): > > It is quite ridiculous to assume that people will stop using carriers and dreads in PvP just because there may be an additional 10-15m in jump fuel costs. I don’t know, that extra 15m is just to much for me to handle, I mean my fully faction/t2 carrier, with deadspace hardeners and t2 fighters just can’t deal with anymore costs. I mean I am risking near on 4b in hull and mods, 15m is just asking for too damn much. ---
**Author:** ![Matthias\_Ancaladron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/matthias_ancaladron/32/128799_2.png) [@Matthias\_Ancaladron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Matthias_Ancaladron)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2017, 9:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/550 "2017-11-19T09:55:38Z")
I’m really fine with either. I’d like more range for my buck personally that’s all. But fatigue is fine too if they want to cut that in half. Apart from that I don’t really have any issues from caps in my somewhat limited experience with them. I dont like the guristas dread having fighters cause it’s out right op. Maybe a general dread buff for pve activities so you don’t have to use carriers if you wanna go big. But those are a different discussion. Just dumb having to wait an hour to only go a few systems over. I think a jump capable ship should have more oomph. Main issue with cynos and jumping is alts. It reduces teamwork and makes those ships useless for people who can’t dual box. ---
**Author:** ![Hamfish\_Shades](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hamfish_shades/32/381174_2.png) [@Hamfish\_Shades](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hamfish_Shades)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2017, 11:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/551 "2017-11-20T11:15:04Z")
Is this aimed to hurt the little guy? Seriously CCP please don’t pass this. This isn’t going to hurt big deployments of large alliances like Goonswarm but it will tie both hands behind the backs of even medium-sized alliances who need the members to seed markets and it ain’t as easy as sticking the Rorq out for 5mins for your high sec JF import trip because these alliances can’t defend these Rorqs, so you use the smaller stuff sink 10x the amount of time into it get the same amount. Also, remember that moon ore stuff you just changed? doesn’t compress, doesn’t move in mass easily and the markets have already inflated with those changes, now you are costing people more to get the moon ore to high sec markets which are already incredibly unstable due to your last changes. ---
**Author:** ![Juvir\_Shadowborne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/juvir_shadowborne/32/23841_2.png) [@Juvir\_Shadowborne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Juvir_Shadowborne)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2017, 12:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710/552 "2017-11-20T12:09:26Z")
> [@Sakido\_Cain](#): > > Simply not going to happen. In 2015 town halls, CCP was pretty adamant that the current system of accumulation, and amount, is what they wanted. It won’t be reduced, we won’t get skills/boosters to reduce it. Because of power projection during a TiDi fight. > > And yet, CCP as admitted over time, many times now, that it is not only unliked by the masses, but has reduced conflict. None of which is good for the game and they know it. They are just unwilling to make the changes they need to because they rarely like to back down when they make massive changes. And yet, it still hasn’t changed the accumulation of jump fatigue. We’re not going back to the days of no-jump fatigue (no matter how much some bitter vets would love to see that), and we’re not going to get a break on how it accumulates. The only break we’ve gotten and are going to get, is in the max cap (anyone else remember it used to be 30 days?). People also don’t like the fozziesov system, and it has reduced sov conflict, but you don’t see that changing. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710.md?page=26) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/december-updated-jump-fuel-and-jump-fatigue-cap-changes/39710.md?page=28)