# Denying lvl 4 (& lvl 5) missions to alpha's (March patch notes) is a very bad idea **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [March 8, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767 "2019-03-08T20:23:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Ronnie\_Rose](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ronnie_rose/32/446230_2.png) [@Ronnie\_Rose](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ronnie_Rose)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767/246 "2019-03-10T20:23:20Z")
Nice. I read your statement as “Alpha players are a cancer.” BTW I never said Alpha’s should have the same as Omega’s, and they don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 8:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767/247 "2019-03-10T20:27:11Z")
> [@Ronnie\_Rose](#): > > Nice. I read your statement as “Alpha players are a cancer.” Well if you think you are an idiot that much I can’t help you. > [@Ronnie\_Rose](#): > > BTW I never said Alpha’s should have the same as Omega’s, and they don’t. Well that’s what most people who claim alpha should have access to something actually reserved to omega actually suggest. I don’t remember what’s your point, so if you did not claim that “alpha should also have this thing” then you’re not concerned. My post was more a joke about what is toxic for one, is a cure for another. ---
**Author:** ![DireTurnick](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/direturnick/32/185249_2.png) [@DireTurnick](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DireTurnick)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 8:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767/248 "2019-03-10T20:44:41Z")
guess you need to get a vni and go to nullsec and make 10x more afk havens like every other smartt alpha 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 9:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767/249 "2019-03-10T21:21:06Z")
Does this guy really think all his whining about how he is losing his RMT income is going to help him? After reading too many of his posts, it seems rather obvious that he’s crying solely because it affects his real life. Reminds me of the afk cloaking thread. The ones who benefit the most of removal of afk cloaking are RMTers. The ones hurt most by this change here are RMTers. The connection is endless whining about something that is not going to change and the unwillingness to accept it. Only someone desperate would behave like this. ---
**Author:** ![Aomame\_Sato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aomame_sato/32/123189_2.png) [@Aomame\_Sato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aomame_Sato)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 9:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767/250 "2019-03-10T21:26:06Z")
> [@Solstice\_Projekt](#): > > The ones hurt most by this change here are RMTers If you’re talking about the afk cloakers, still, no, it will hurt me bad. When I’m sitting in a 700m tengu with at least that in cargo, and it’s down to waiting them out for nine hours, which I have done a few times, yes, afk while I went to work, it hurts me, directly. Like I said, before, you outnumber me, you outgun me, and you definitely out-experience me, in pvp. My sole defense against unwanted pvp is that cloak. If you can penetrate it, I’m dead. It’s enough. You have EVERYTHING but the ability to force me to be stupid. That ship, and all that loot, yeah, I can wait. You can’t. I’ll afk for a week if I have to, to get out of your bubbled little sanctuary. I won’t have to, though, because despite all your bravado, none of you have even maintained the bubbles for nine hours. ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 9:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767/251 "2019-03-10T21:28:19Z")
I wasn’t talking to, or about you. ---
**Author:** ![Aomame\_Sato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aomame_sato/32/123189_2.png) [@Aomame\_Sato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aomame_Sato)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 9:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767/252 "2019-03-10T21:29:55Z")
I asked if that sentence referred to afk cloakers. It was a simple question, and english being what it is, the proximity and previous subject implies that it might. The ones hurt most by the change… What change? If it was in relation to what you just mentioned, there will be real victims, not just RMTers. ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 9:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767/253 "2019-03-10T21:40:34Z")
And still… I am not talking to, or about you. Victim? No one is a victim here. You do a disservice to all actual victims suffering from ■■■■ in their lives and you should be ashamed of yourself for calling people, who can’t do certain ■■■■ for free anymore, _real_ victims. Why do you even need to ask “what change” i am talking about? How is it not obvious? You know what this thread is about, right? You can see the title up there, right? ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 9:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767/254 "2019-03-10T21:44:09Z")
To the OP and others: Keep in mind that Anderson Geten and Solstice Projekt pretty much do nothing on forums but make insulting, inflammatory comments. Although Anderson at least occasionally makes useful posts with decent facts and figures, I’ve yet to see Solstice do the same. And while Anderson has proven to be a capable PVPer, Solstice is pretty much limited to ganking pods in high sec with disposable ships. Consider the source when debating points. Generally, I find that arguing points with trolls only makes the trolls happy. ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 9:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767/255 "2019-03-10T21:45:39Z")
Changes nothing about the high probability of OP being an RMTer whining about how he is losing income. ---
**Author:** ![Aomame\_Sato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aomame_sato/32/123189_2.png) [@Aomame\_Sato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aomame_Sato)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 9:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767/256 "2019-03-10T21:45:48Z")
> [@Solstice\_Projekt](#): > > Why do you even need to ask “what change” i am talking about? > [@Solstice\_Projekt](#): > > Reminds me of the afk cloaking thread. The ones who benefit the most of removal of afk cloaking are RMTers. The ones hurt most by this change here are RMTers. ‘This change here’ caused me some confusion, referencing previous sentences, finding the object of what ‘this’ change here, meant. I see what you were saying, now. Please accept my apologies. Sorry if I offended you. ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 9:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767/257 "2019-03-10T21:46:12Z")
You didn’t. Happens to all of us. What do you think how likely it is that OP is an RMTer? Sorry if you talked about that before, but reading through all posts is too much. ---
**Author:** ![Aomame\_Sato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aomame_sato/32/123189_2.png) [@Aomame\_Sato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aomame_Sato)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 9:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767/258 "2019-03-10T21:52:17Z")
> [@Solstice\_Projekt](#): > > What do you think how likely it is that OP is an RMTer 50/50. He either is or he isn’t. I don’t really have access to any information that would allow me to skew it one way or the other, either. ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 10:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767/259 "2019-03-10T22:06:52Z")
You have plenty. - OP uses ludicrous arguments. - OP uses “think of the children”. - The ones benefitting from lvl4 access the most are RMTers. It is not unlikely that he has an army of alphas botting lvl4s. - OP appears to be desperate. - Someone has to be actually affected by this change to keep on keeping on like the OP does. The combination is what shifts likelihood upwards. Of course there’s no certainty, though, but “innocent until proven guilty” gets us nowhere when there is no way of actually proving guilt and this is not a court room. IMO the biggest shift in probability comes from his obvious desperation. The fact that gaining ISK for RMT is better done in nullsec is only a loose argument one can bring up, because there can be reasons why he can not do it there. Like: It would cost him significant time, effort and isk moving his operation to null when he is fully set up in highsec, or maybe he fears that afk cloakers would hurt his RMT income too much. PS: Yes, I shouldn’t use “likelihood” and “probability” like this, but the message gets through anyway and it’s not much of a problem. Most likely don’t know the difference. ---
**Author:** ![Aomame\_Sato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aomame_sato/32/123189_2.png) [@Aomame\_Sato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aomame_Sato)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 10:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767/260 "2019-03-10T22:12:05Z")
Your reasoning appears sound, yes. It could, also, though, just be an alpha that’s irritated about being spurned? Anger, also, can lead one to take actions very similar to what you dub ‘desperation.’ But on the whole, yes, your analysis does appear to be at least tenable. I was a hell of a lot more concerned about losing my cloak than L4 missions. I’m omega, I’m not losing them… ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 10:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767/261 "2019-03-10T22:14:53Z")
> [@Aomame\_Sato](#): > > I was a hell of a lot more concerned about losing my cloak than L4 missions. I don’t understand this part. Why were you concerned about that? ---
**Author:** ![Aomame\_Sato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aomame_sato/32/123189_2.png) [@Aomame\_Sato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aomame_Sato)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 10:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767/262 "2019-03-10T22:16:11Z")
The afk cloaking angst is significant, and if I lose my cloak, or they can penetrate it while I’m clearly, obviously, admittedly, afk at work, then I lose. I feel they have all the advantages, already, and they should not have the further one of being able to force me out into combat. ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 10:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767/263 "2019-03-10T22:16:56Z")
Wait… you’re an afk cloaker in null? ---
**Author:** ![Aomame\_Sato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aomame_sato/32/123189_2.png) [@Aomame\_Sato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aomame_Sato)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 10:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767/264 "2019-03-10T22:17:32Z")
Yes, when I don’t have a wormhole out of the system, and all the gates are bubbled, and I have no desire to lose my relic loot. Hell yeah. ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 10:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767/265 "2019-03-10T22:18:04Z")
Ah… nice! Keep up the good work! [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767.md?page=12) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767.md?page=14)