# Denying lvl 4 (& lvl 5) missions to alpha's (March patch notes) is a very bad idea **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [March 8, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767 "2019-03-08T20:23:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2019, 2:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767/81 "2019-03-09T02:12:20Z")
> [@Lord\_Rolfski](#): > > I voted actually. It only convinced me that the CSM is a completely corrupted joke of a system that does nothing but diminishing the trust of the average Eve player because their interests are simply not being represented. I’m sorry you feel that way. I’ve been working pretty hard over the last year to try to change that perception, but I guess I’ll have to run again because I haven’t made a big enough dent. ---
**Author:** ![Rich\_Darine](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rich_darine/32/438327_2.png) [@Rich\_Darine](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rich_Darine)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2019, 2:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767/82 "2019-03-09T02:12:43Z")
Hey @Brisc_Rubal you ever get tired of arguing with these idiots 😆 ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2019, 2:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767/83 "2019-03-09T02:13:18Z")
I actually spent money on a campaign to do this. I’m brain damaged. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Rolfski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lord_rolfski/32/196163_2.png) [@Lord\_Rolfski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lord_Rolfski)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2019, 2:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767/84 "2019-03-09T02:13:25Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > If Solstice & I are on the same side of an argument, and you are on the other side, it’s a good sign you are wrong. I wouldn’t feel all that proud that much tbh to align myself with obvious trolls. I’m always open however to well-argumented counter-ideas 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Rich\_Darine](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rich_darine/32/438327_2.png) [@Rich\_Darine](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rich_Darine)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2019, 2:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767/85 "2019-03-09T02:14:03Z")
Love it man, thank you for what you do ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Rolfski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lord_rolfski/32/196163_2.png) [@Lord\_Rolfski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lord_Rolfski)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2019, 2:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767/86 "2019-03-09T02:15:06Z")
> [@Rich\_Darine](#): > > Nonsense. If you’re scrubbing it up as an alpha and doing level IV’s shame on you it’s time to sub lol You clearly have no idea whatsoever why CCP created alpha accounts ---
**Author:** ![Rich\_Darine](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rich_darine/32/438327_2.png) [@Rich\_Darine](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rich_Darine)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2019, 2:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767/87 "2019-03-09T02:15:48Z")
Please explain it to me then, I’m curious what you think ---
**Author:** ![safira\_jomita](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/safira_jomita/32/405219_2.png) [@safira\_jomita](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/safira_jomita)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2019, 2:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767/88 "2019-03-09T02:15:53Z")
Fine the difference in reward of lv 3 and 4 is veeeery high. Less reward = less money to pay for more bots = increased cost to maintain bots. Not the final solution but it’s a step ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Rolfski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lord_rolfski/32/196163_2.png) [@Lord\_Rolfski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lord_Rolfski)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2019, 2:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767/89 "2019-03-09T02:18:20Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > If it was economical for them to plex and bot that way they already would be doing it. > If they aren’t doing it, they make more isk being an alpha. With lvl 4s restricted to omegas, CCP might just have given them a reason now to actually plex their bot accounts ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Rolfski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lord_rolfski/32/196163_2.png) [@Lord\_Rolfski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lord_Rolfski)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2019, 2:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767/90 "2019-03-09T02:19:53Z")
> [@Herzog\_Wolfhammer](#): > > Give me reasons to believe what you just told me. I gave you reasons, I don’t expect you to agree to them. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2019, 2:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767/91 "2019-03-09T02:22:25Z")
You clearly dont listen to well reasoned arguments because you ignored the second half of that. And also ignored how little solstice and I do agree on, therefore how rare it is for the two of us to agree and what that actually means. Anyway… If they would make more isk from plexxed accounts, they would already be plexxed. If they could run more bots, they already would. Ergo if there are alpha bots running lvl 4s which we have to assume there are… they lose money, probably significant money by this change. ---
**Author:** ![Herzog\_Wolfhammer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/herzog_wolfhammer/32/452132_2.png) [@Herzog\_Wolfhammer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Herzog_Wolfhammer)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2019, 2:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767/92 "2019-03-09T02:24:53Z")
Good. You should expect me to think you are a botter then. ---
**Author:** ![Maekchu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/maekchu/32/178692_2.png) [@Maekchu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Maekchu)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2019, 2:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767/93 "2019-03-09T02:25:24Z")
Just some interesting quotes from the original devblog on [clone states](https://www.eveonline.com/article/introducing-clone-states-and-the-future-of-access-to-eve-online). > The clone state prevents access to powerful skills like Cynosural Field Theory and Cloaking, and **limits farming through skills that control scaling and efficiency**. > **Q:** Why are Alpha skills limited to Cruisers and lower? > _ **A:** We think this set of ships gives you the chance to have a meaningful impact on almost every activity and environment in the game without causing any problems in the ecosystem. **Bigger and more advanced ships could easily lead to various forms of farming and abuse that would harm the experience for subscribed EVE players.** That said, we expect to make changes based on feedback and on activity once the feature is released._ I think it is safe to say, that the original intent of Alpha clones was never for them to have the ability to efficiently farm ISK. So honestly, the current changes only support the original intent. One can argue, that CCP have taken way too long to actually balance the Alpha clone and thus Alpha’s have grown accustomed to the “luxurious” life of lvl4 income. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Rolfski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lord_rolfski/32/196163_2.png) [@Lord\_Rolfski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lord_Rolfski)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2019, 2:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767/94 "2019-03-09T02:26:35Z")
> [@Maekchu](#): > > If you didn’t pay the sub, you didn’t support anything to begin with. Just saying… Here’s how proper f2p works. The majority will never support the game but that’s fine because they will still provide content, The revenue comes from the 20^% that actually supports it. That doesn’t make the other 80% less important though: 20% is supporting the game because the other 80% is giving them content. ---
**Author:** ![Maekchu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/maekchu/32/178692_2.png) [@Maekchu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Maekchu)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2019, 2:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767/95 "2019-03-09T02:30:25Z")
You just forget, that eve is not implemented as a F2P game. The alpha is basically a glorified trial. If CCP actually implemented proper F2P systems, then I could agree with you. Basically, your misconception is that you think eve is a F2P game. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Rolfski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lord_rolfski/32/196163_2.png) [@Lord\_Rolfski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lord_Rolfski)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2019, 2:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767/96 "2019-03-09T02:34:19Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > I’m sorry you feel that way. I’ve been working pretty hard over the last year to try to change that perception, but I guess I’ll have to run again because I haven’t made a big enough dent. You simply can’t fix what is broken by design. Player election just doesn’t work in this game. When an alliance prescribes you who to vote for and in what order, resulting in a complete joke of a block representation, then you just know this whole current CSM system is just rotten at its core. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2019, 2:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767/97 "2019-03-09T02:36:56Z")
> [@Lord\_Rolfski](#): > > . Player election just doesn’t work in this game. When an alliance prescribes you who to vote for and in what order, resulting in a complete joke of a block representation, then you just know this whole current CSM system is just rotten at its core. How is that any different from how elections work in real life? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Rolfski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lord_rolfski/32/196163_2.png) [@Lord\_Rolfski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lord_Rolfski)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2019, 2:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767/98 "2019-03-09T02:38:35Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > You clearly dont listen to well reasoned arguments because you ignored the second half of that. And also ignored how little solstice and I do agree on, therefore how rare it is for the two of us to agree and what that actually means. > > Anyway… > If they would make more isk from plexxed accounts, they would already be plexxed. > If they could run more bots, they already would. > > Ergo if there are alpha bots running lvl 4s which we have to assume there are… they lose money, probably significant money by this change. Botters up till now didn’t have reason to plex. But now this change might actually give them a reason to do so. Which will only increase the bot problem. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Rolfski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lord_rolfski/32/196163_2.png) [@Lord\_Rolfski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lord_Rolfski)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2019, 2:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767/99 "2019-03-09T02:39:47Z")
> [@Herzog\_Wolfhammer](#): > > Good. You should expect me to think you are a botter then. In that case , you clearly didn’t listen to my arguments ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2019, 2:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767/100 "2019-03-09T02:49:21Z")
If plexxing makes them more isk, they already would. Therefore even if they plex to do so they lose isk. Explain how botters getting less isk for more work makes for a larger problem. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767.md?page=4) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767.md?page=6)