# Denying lvl 4 (& lvl 5) missions to alpha's (March patch notes) is a very bad idea **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [March 8, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767 "2019-03-08T20:23:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2019, 6:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767/161 "2019-03-09T18:17:02Z")
> [@Lord\_Rolfski](#): > > From a F2P perspective (mind you, that’s how the far majority of new players enter this game) Eve is just a horrible experience. And exactly how this is negative? The pressure to spend money on EvE can’t be high enough. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Rolfski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lord_rolfski/32/196163_2.png) [@Lord\_Rolfski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lord_Rolfski)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2019, 6:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767/162 "2019-03-09T18:21:15Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Again, this merely demonstrates that CCP has not understood how F2P works or how to make it contribute to the game. They implemented it because they felt they had to, it has helped to solve the ‘declining player numbers’ issue that was pointed out for years; and now that that issue has lessened, they are apparently locked back into the mindset of ‘putting Alphas back into restricted trial mode’ rather than actually using them as a tool for further growth. I definitely agree that CCP has serious problems understanding how F2P really works and are having a difficult time in their transition to this model, resulting in some questionable decisions about alphas. They’re apparently blind to the fact that players simply don’t want to feel handicapped and forced into a subscription model when playing a game. That just a horrible and consumer-unfriendly way to engage with your players. On the other hand, there is no denying that CCP is kinda stuck between a rock and a hard place here. They acknowledge that the gaming industry is changing but on the other hand don’t want to alienate themselves too much from their hardcore player base, who typically hate to see any changes and generally fail to see the importance of “freeloaders” for the future of their game. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Rolfski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lord_rolfski/32/196163_2.png) [@Lord\_Rolfski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lord_Rolfski)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2019, 6:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767/163 "2019-03-09T18:32:15Z")
> [@Maekchu](#): > > If eve was a proper F2P game, there would be no limits to the free account. That is the whole point of F2P, to give you the whole game experience for free and monetizing it in a different way like micro transactions. > > This is why eve is not a F2P game and based on the original devblog, they never intended to switch eve to a F2P game with the clone states. > > As it is now, eve is a sub game with a microtransaction shop, the ability to buy game time with ingame currency and a generous trial. It can be argued, that CCP should do either business model and not do a shoddy version of both. Here I can actually agree with you. Eve atm is a half-assed F2P game which simply doesn’t work. If only for the fact that from a F2P perspective, it is just a horrible and way too limited player experience that simply fails to make players stick to the game. I’m afraid there is no turning back though for CCP to go back to the subscription-only model. ---
**Author:** ![3lla](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/3lla/32/121536_2.png) [@3lla](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/3lla)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2019, 6:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767/164 "2019-03-09T18:43:35Z")
> [@Lord\_Rolfski](#): > > I’m afraid there is no turning back though for CCP to go back to the subscription-only model. Would you pay that sub if it did roll back though ? ---
**Author:** ![Tater-nuts](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tater-nuts/32/189043_2.png) [@Tater-nuts](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tater-nuts)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2019, 6:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767/165 "2019-03-09T18:49:37Z")
> [@Lord\_Rolfski](#): > > Eve is just a horrible experience. Then why are you still here? Don’t let the door hit you on the way out. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Rolfski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lord_rolfski/32/196163_2.png) [@Lord\_Rolfski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lord_Rolfski)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2019, 7:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767/166 "2019-03-09T19:22:30Z")
> [@Tater-nuts](#): > > Then why are you still here? Don’t let the door hit you on the way out. Just because the F2P experience is generally bad for this game doesn’t mean there isn’t any fun to be had. ---
**Author:** ![3lla](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/3lla/32/121536_2.png) [@3lla](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/3lla)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2019, 7:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767/167 "2019-03-09T19:27:17Z")
> [@Lord\_Rolfski](#): > > Just because the F2P experience is generally bad for this game doesn’t mean there isn’t any fun to be had. Yet still not fun-worthy enough to flip the wallet for and support it seems. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Rolfski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lord_rolfski/32/196163_2.png) [@Lord\_Rolfski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lord_Rolfski)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2019, 8:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767/168 "2019-03-09T20:11:23Z")
> [@3lla](#): > > Yet still not fun-worthy enough to flip the wallet for and support it seems. I have actually supported this game more than once but that’s not the point. This whole idea of treating F2P players as second rate is just incredibly retarded and extremely bad game design. If you want to increase player retention you have to do the exact opposite. ---
**Author:** ![Pogmo\_Thon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pogmo_thon/32/106884_2.png) [@Pogmo\_Thon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Pogmo_Thon)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2019, 8:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767/169 "2019-03-09T20:17:04Z")
?It`s a good idea: what you don`t pay for… ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Rolfski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lord_rolfski/32/196163_2.png) [@Lord\_Rolfski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lord_Rolfski)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2019, 8:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767/170 "2019-03-09T20:24:11Z")
> [@3lla](#): > > Would you pay that sub if it did roll back though ? I definitely wouldn’t but then again, I’m generally not a fan of subscription models and rather prefer to pay a fixed price for a game. And I’m pretty sure I’m not the only one. Which has become a problem for CCP of course and has lead to the alpha program. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Rolfski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lord_rolfski/32/196163_2.png) [@Lord\_Rolfski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lord_Rolfski)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2019, 8:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767/171 "2019-03-09T20:29:19Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > > Denying them Lvl 4 missions will only annoy the heck out of alphas, it will do nothing to bring them to Omega. > > That’s exactly what it’s going to do. > > > As I said, alphas are content, which is equally important for the future of this game. > > Are they? > > Mission runners in hi-sec aren’t known for going out and mixing it up. Send your alpha to fw or null. > > The pay is better and you can actually be content then. As I said before, this whole idea of alpha players being second rate is just incredibly retarded and a real problem for the future of this game. As is the idea that some play styles should valued second rate. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Rolfski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lord_rolfski/32/196163_2.png) [@Lord\_Rolfski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lord_Rolfski)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2019, 8:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767/172 "2019-03-09T20:32:41Z")
> [@Maekchu](#): > > > You obviously have no clue why CCP created alpha accounts. Hint: It was more than being just trial accounts. > > This is again a sentence, where you imply that CCP business plan somehow align with your own opinion. > > To make your argument legitimate, provide references where CCP explicitly state their intent with the creation of alpha accounts. In fact, CCP has been very clear about this. They acknowledge that not every player wants to sub. The example CCP is often using here is that of the returning vet. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Rolfski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lord_rolfski/32/196163_2.png) [@Lord\_Rolfski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lord_Rolfski)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2019, 8:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767/174 "2019-03-09T20:35:25Z")
> [@3lla](#): > > > And in this particular case, many alphas enjoy level 4 missioning to finance their other (PVP) activities in Eve. I’m one of them btw. > > Then dont freeload and support CCP to play the game you enjoy. This whole idea of alpha’s being “freeloaders” is typical short sightness of players that have no clue how a F2P model works. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Rolfski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lord_rolfski/32/196163_2.png) [@Lord\_Rolfski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lord_Rolfski)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2019, 8:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767/176 "2019-03-09T20:41:27Z")
> [@Anix\_Solette](#): > > [Lord\_Rolfski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/lord_rolfski) > as I wrote to the other guy in his other thread: > > you just got scammed by CCP using the old [Bait and Switch](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bait-and-switch) tactic - enjoy! > > and as the other commentators wrote, this is just a beginning! > > usually when a company pulls that thing, somebody posts this video: > [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpE\_xMRiCLE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpE_xMRiCLE) You can be 100% sure that this is not some deliberate scam tactic of CCP. What likely has happened here is that CCP felt a lot of pressure from this joke of a counsel called CSM to do SOMETHING against botting, Which prompted CCP to this very short-sighted change that in the end, will do nothing against botting but instead will only screw over alphas. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2019, 8:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767/179 "2019-03-09T20:47:29Z")
I just don’t get your issue concerning security missions. Alphas were not able to run burners efficiently. Most other L4 missions are actually worth LESS than blitzing L3s in a mach. Are you telling me that CCP should also remove L3S from alphas ? ---
**Author:** ![Maekchu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/maekchu/32/178692_2.png) [@Maekchu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Maekchu)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2019, 8:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767/180 "2019-03-09T20:50:08Z")
I’m just asking for a reference that supports your statement. Again _“In fact, CCP has been very clear about this”_ is not public accepted knowledge, at least not to me. So I’m asking for a reference, so I can evaluate your argument. I’m not saying you are wrong, I’m just saying, that I need something concrete in order to evaluate the argument. I am only trying to heighten the quality of debate here. If we are just throwing opinions at each other as if they are realities, then what is the point of the debate? Then the earth might as well be flat. ---
**Author:** ![Traco\_Miritu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/traco_miritu/32/130952_2.png) [@Traco\_Miritu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Traco_Miritu)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2019, 9:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767/181 "2019-03-09T21:04:04Z")
It’s really simple…get rid of all alphas and return to trials… Ftp will never be a solution of any kind…it just makes things worse. Getting rid of this crap and forcing people to sub after 4 weeks or so will create a steady income and you can STILL sell your precious skins… ---
**Author:** ![Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/geo_eclipse_oksaras/32/500781_2.png) [@Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Geo_Eclipse_Oksaras)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2019, 9:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767/182 "2019-03-09T21:04:23Z")
CCP didn’t wake up one morning and go “hmm we think EVE should be a f2p but a f’d up version of f2p” EVE was never meant to be f2p, it’s not advertised as such. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2019, 9:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767/183 "2019-03-09T21:16:40Z")
I support this decision. ---
**Author:** ![Traco\_Miritu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/traco_miritu/32/130952_2.png) [@Traco\_Miritu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Traco_Miritu)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2019, 9:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767/184 "2019-03-09T21:17:30Z")
Just let’s get rid of alphas and all ftp crap… [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767.md?page=8) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/denying-lvl-4-lvl-5-missions-to-alphas-march-patch-notes-is-a-very-bad-idea/144767.md?page=10)