# Dev blog: Introducing the Mining Ledger - New tools for miners in EVE Online **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** lifeblood, devblog\ **Created:** [October 16, 2017, 2:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-introducing-the-mining-ledger-new-tools-for-miners-in-eve-online/31910 "2017-10-16T14:35:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Warlord\_Balrog](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/warlord_balrog/32/330437_2.png) [@Warlord\_Balrog](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Warlord_Balrog)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2017, 2:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-introducing-the-mining-ledger-new-tools-for-miners-in-eve-online/31910/41 "2017-10-17T02:00:30Z")
It seems to me the tracking is easily avoided by simply creating multiple expendable characters in the same fashion as hunters do. One could simply create ThiefOneTwoThree and hit a couple structure belts, biomass after transferring and by then you have another character ready to go. If this is the route CCP and CSM is willing to take, rather than quelling all of the complaints thus far (which case I do agree somewhat) then the counter-play seems quite simple. If the ledger accumulated the knowledge AFTER the next belt is formed, which would be at least 10 days, the knowledge of who would still bear an impact but not nearly as much. However if 24 hours is enough safety until you are caught, as mentioned above this creates a problem. With that said, if you have a problem with it, simply be ready to cycle two week-long venture pilots in NPC corps to avoid The Man sticking it to you. Good day pilots o7 ---
**Author:** ![Kon\_Kre8r](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kon_kre8r/32/12087_2.png) [@Kon\_Kre8r](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kon_Kre8r)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2017, 2:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-introducing-the-mining-ledger-new-tools-for-miners-in-eve-online/31910/42 "2017-10-17T02:01:33Z")
Just like we have abbreviations for all the states that everyone is supposed to have as general knowledge. ---
**Author:** ![Alessienne\_Ellecon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alessienne_ellecon/32/13081_2.png) [@Alessienne\_Ellecon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alessienne_Ellecon)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2017, 2:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-introducing-the-mining-ledger-new-tools-for-miners-in-eve-online/31910/43 "2017-10-17T02:16:42Z")
> [@Dom\_Arkaral](#): > > But too many ledgers and we start playing Ledgers Online heh We already play Spreadsheets Online, I don’t see much of a difference. ---
**Author:** ![Penance\_Toralen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/penance_toralen/32/244089_2.png) [@Penance\_Toralen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Penance_Toralen)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2017, 2:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-introducing-the-mining-ledger-new-tools-for-miners-in-eve-online/31910/44 "2017-10-17T02:32:40Z")
Being Delayed is irrelevant. You know who did and when. - If I rat in your space - If loot wrecks in your space - Steal from a can - If I re-enforce structures in your space You do not get the intel of the player. But if I mine in your space?! If you cannot be active in guarding a space asset, then it can be stolen - welcome to Eve. Historically theft in space has not given away the thief, if the player does not directly observe it. This includes syphons - if you had to see it in space to know whom. Anonymity is the first line of defense. (just ask that guy in a mask). > [@Jin\_taan](#): > > I genuinely am struggling to see your outrage here at people operating in a completely optional and consensual relationship here. What option or consent? I did not give you my identity. I did not provide you with the time I was active. Or the ores I elect to mine. Where is the opt out choice? The watchlist requires consent, this does not. > [@Jin\_taan](#): > > Look at this from the NRDS perspective I operate from - I’d like to leave my moons open to be mined by anyone and then have them pay a tax, and to do that I need information on who’s been mining my moons so that I can contact them. So, in essence pork barreling through CSM. Good to know. Yet another reason this body long since passed a used-by date and should be discontinued. There should be a candidate next year “no confidence” - they’d be worth voting for. ---
**Author:** ![KenFlorian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kenflorian/32/449998_2.png) [@KenFlorian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/KenFlorian)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2017, 2:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-introducing-the-mining-ledger-new-tools-for-miners-in-eve-online/31910/45 "2017-10-17T02:37:08Z")
I heart this post 957 times. …changed my mind…make that 1 googleplex worth oh hearts. ---
**Author:** ![Sgt\_Ocker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sgt_ocker/32/270881_2.png) [@Sgt\_Ocker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sgt_Ocker)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2017, 3:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-introducing-the-mining-ledger-new-tools-for-miners-in-eve-online/31910/46 "2017-10-17T03:01:23Z")
Interesting - The line between NRDS or not is very thin. You’re offering to allow anyone to mine a moon you have a structure on - As long as they pay you for the privilege of doing so. The difference between syphons and the mining ledger are obvious - Syphons never told you what time to be there to catch the person who placed it. So you mean by not having the players exact name and details of when and where, you can’t catch a ninja miner? Ninja mining, like spying and a few other activities is something very private - If I were to tell you the names of every spy in your group just how effective would they be? Dumbing down the game to make it easier to hunt individuals is not a good way to go. Watch lists were removed for just this reason… Scenario; The group I belong to is not a heavy weight as coalitions go. What happens if I find moons I can ninja mine due to lax defences on the owners part and they due to having my name corp and alliance decide to take their revenge on my alliance. You’ve already said you’ll hunt anyone who doesn’t pay you for the privilege of mining your moons - What’s to stop some giant alliance/coalition doing the same on a larger scale - Should the small guy (group) not be able to engage in ninja mining due to the risk of having their alliance targeted by someone they can’t possibly fight? When it comes to “free intel” Eve has a history of using it to the extreme. I wonder - What it would take to turn the mining tracker/ledger into a player tracker. We’ve already got the ability to modify it to track normal mining activities that have nothing to do with moon mining, what more would be required to turn it into a player tracker. EG; A moon in NPC nul is owned by X corp and there are a lot of asteroid belts in the system so they get hold of a mining tracker - Then get free intel on anyone else who might be mining in the system, names, corps, times they mine… It’s like, mining is so safe you don’t have to worry about every man and his dog knowing you are there at a particular time… ---
**Author:** ![Pestilen\_Ratte](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pestilen_ratte/32/42087_2.png) [@Pestilen\_Ratte](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Pestilen_Ratte)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2017, 3:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-introducing-the-mining-ledger-new-tools-for-miners-in-eve-online/31910/47 "2017-10-17T03:46:29Z")
If moon mining turns out to be as much fun as this thread, I guess CCP are going to think about how they are going to spend all the money from new subscriptions. Why, just the other day I was talking to someone outside the clinic, and they were telling me how you just can’t get a complex mining simulator designed for the owners of huge online groups of corporate employees. And I was like, “Sometime you have to see suffering in order to appreciate what is good in your life.” And he was like “That was a Abyssian King who said that.” And I was like “No it wasn’t.” And he was like “And he died in great pain, after losing a war he should have won.” And I was like “No he didn’t.” Some people are so stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Markus\_Jameson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/markus_jameson/32/12581_2.png) [@Markus\_Jameson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Markus_Jameson)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2017, 5:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-introducing-the-mining-ledger-new-tools-for-miners-in-eve-online/31910/48 "2017-10-17T05:18:43Z")
> [@Sgt\_Ocker](#): > > Syphons There’s a thought, or rather a question, are siphons still going to have a use / still be in the game? ---
**Author:** ![Circumstantial\_Evidence](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/circumstantial_evidence/32/399551_2.png) [@Circumstantial\_Evidence](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Circumstantial_Evidence)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2017, 5:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-introducing-the-mining-ledger-new-tools-for-miners-in-eve-online/31910/49 "2017-10-17T05:23:34Z")
> [@Markus\_Jameson](#): > > are siphons still going to have a use / still be in the game? POS siphons require a POS with a moon miner, which go inactive on Oct 24. I imagine CCP will issue a buy back offer or something to compensate players with soon-to-be useless relics. > [@Sgt\_Ocker](#): > > they get hold of a mining tracker - Then get free intel on anyone else … who signs in to one of the public not-moon mining activity trackers and agrees to share that data. For these reasons, the idea of public-facing not-moon mining activity boasting sites may be DOA. The Nosy Gamer has [written about some of these concerns](http://nosygamer.blogspot.com/2017/10/the-agency-do-no-harm.html). I can’t imagine many corps will be publicly exposing their _moon mining_ data, especially in an “API Verified” form that might include their own member’s activity. The developer comment on the watchlist said it had to go because the data was instantaneous and had no counter play. If I end up in someone’s moon ledger, I can bow to threats and stop, or pick some other moon some other time, if that’s what I really want to do that day. If everyone ends up nibbling at everyone else’s moons, the chaos of ledger entries will be challenging to navigate. I imagine most of the “violations” will be opportunistic, and probably the “leftover” bits, since only the owner/operator knows exactly when the moon chunk will be open for business. I think CVA diplos are in for a world of work if they want to add every not-blue violator in the ledgers to the KOS list. I imagine just to preserve sanity, KOS will be reserved for “repeat offenders,” lol. ---
**Author:** ![Markus\_Jameson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/markus_jameson/32/12581_2.png) [@Markus\_Jameson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Markus_Jameson)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2017, 5:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-introducing-the-mining-ledger-new-tools-for-miners-in-eve-online/31910/50 "2017-10-17T05:37:20Z")
> [@Circumstantial\_Evidence](#): > > POS siphons require a POS with a moon miner, which go inactive on Oct 24. True, was sort of hoping they’d be usable somehow with the new system, mostly because I’ve never got around to trying one yet 😄 > [@Circumstantial\_Evidence](#): > > I imagine CCP will issue a buy back offer or something to compensate players with soon-to-be useless relics That’s not how it usually seems to go in this game (is it?), I thought most of the useless stuff was just left behind as “collectibles”, especially when most probably had full purchase value from it already & (the change) is signaled far enough ahead that newer entrants into the activity who haven’t had time to do that only have themselves to blame if they lose ISK on it? ---
**Author:** ![Circumstantial\_Evidence](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/circumstantial_evidence/32/399551_2.png) [@Circumstantial\_Evidence](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Circumstantial_Evidence)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2017, 7:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-introducing-the-mining-ledger-new-tools-for-miners-in-eve-online/31910/51 "2017-10-17T07:19:31Z")
Siphons are perhaps a “missed opportunity,” someone posted[an F&I wondering if they could be changed to steal fuel](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/resuscitation-of-the-small-mobile-siphon-unit/30035), but it wasn’t too popular. You are right about no compensation for certain obsoleted items, and for the reasons you state. But POS gear specifically [has been mentioned in past dev blogs.](https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/the-next-steps-in-structure-transition/) > …disabling of Starbase Moon Mining Arrays and Starbase Reactors when Refineries are released, as well as eventually removing the types associated with obsolete Starbase functions completely and distributing appropriate compensation to their owners. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2017, 9:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-introducing-the-mining-ledger-new-tools-for-miners-in-eve-online/31910/52 "2017-10-17T09:48:24Z")
> [@Sgt\_Ocker](#): > > The bottom level does all the work while the upper levels get the benefits. Time for the Trade Unions to form then. 👌 ---
**Author:** ![Jin\_taan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jin_taan/32/381307_2.png) [@Jin\_taan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jin_taan)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2017, 11:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-introducing-the-mining-ledger-new-tools-for-miners-in-eve-online/31910/53 "2017-10-17T11:47:26Z")
> [@Penance\_Toralen](#): > > You know who did and when. No, you know who. That is it. ---
**Author:** ![Jin\_taan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jin_taan/32/381307_2.png) [@Jin\_taan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jin_taan)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2017, 11:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-introducing-the-mining-ledger-new-tools-for-miners-in-eve-online/31910/54 "2017-10-17T11:51:44Z")
> [@Penance\_Toralen](#): > > But if I mine in your space?! Only if you mine on a structure that someone has put up - this doesn’t apply to any other form of mining in the system. ---
**Author:** ![yellow\_parasol](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yellow_parasol/32/10455_2.png) [@yellow\_parasol](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/yellow_parasol)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2017, 1:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-introducing-the-mining-ledger-new-tools-for-miners-in-eve-online/31910/55 "2017-10-17T13:40:12Z")
i too wish they morphite to shorts. that’d be gneiss. ---
**Author:** ![Tasman\_Cabrillo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tasman_cabrillo/32/427088_2.png) [@Tasman\_Cabrillo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tasman_Cabrillo)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2017, 4:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-introducing-the-mining-ledger-new-tools-for-miners-in-eve-online/31910/56 "2017-10-17T16:33:21Z")
I bet you also thought that the moon siphon should be cloaked, un-scannable and no info on the pilot available, even after the kill. sorry pal, but that stuff just won’t fly. if we have to shell out uncounted billions for the platform and rigs, we get the right to manage what happens in that field. deal with it. ---
**Author:** ![Tasman\_Cabrillo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tasman_cabrillo/32/427088_2.png) [@Tasman\_Cabrillo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tasman_Cabrillo)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2017, 4:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-introducing-the-mining-ledger-new-tools-for-miners-in-eve-online/31910/57 "2017-10-17T16:40:04Z")
are you also looking to have dcsan and combat probing removed too so no one anywhere anytime can know who you are and what you are doing? get real. like with PI you have to move your materials through a poco, this is what they’ve decided to do. you can’t move moon goo without being registered in the mining ledger and being taxed, just deal with it. ---
**Author:** ![Sophie\_Mcgalien\_Hoeeg](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sophie_mcgalien_hoeeg/32/22063_2.png) [@Sophie\_Mcgalien\_Hoeeg](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sophie_Mcgalien_Hoeeg)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2017, 5:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-introducing-the-mining-ledger-new-tools-for-miners-in-eve-online/31910/58 "2017-10-17T17:18:43Z")
Can we also have a fleet mining ledger for fleet ops in reguler belts? So as soon you enter a fleet a fleet mining ledger gets added to the mining ledger UI. This will make it much easier to do fleet mining ops. since the fleet history is worthless. Right now we do it based on time spent mining modified by ship used for mining. And then have someone to keep track of all miners. ---
**Author:** ![Markus\_Jameson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/markus_jameson/32/12581_2.png) [@Markus\_Jameson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Markus_Jameson)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2017, 5:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-introducing-the-mining-ledger-new-tools-for-miners-in-eve-online/31910/59 "2017-10-17T17:45:18Z")
For small fleets I’ve been in one or two where each member is asked to choose one ore (not already chosen by another fleet member) only mine that & jet can it for the FC’s MTU to scoop… which works OK when there’s only a few of you. a ledger would be a very nice option though. ---
**Author:** ![Sophie\_Mcgalien\_Hoeeg](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sophie_mcgalien_hoeeg/32/22063_2.png) [@Sophie\_Mcgalien\_Hoeeg](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sophie_Mcgalien_Hoeeg)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2017, 5:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-introducing-the-mining-ledger-new-tools-for-miners-in-eve-online/31910/60 "2017-10-17T17:52:02Z")
> [@Markus\_Jameson](#): > > For small fleets I’ve been in one or two where each member is asked to choose one ore (not already chosen by another fleet member) only mine that & jet can it for the FC’s MTU to scoop… which works OK when there’s only a few of you. a ledger would be a very nice option though. I agree but usually, we have 10-20 people. A fleet mining ledger would show exactly what people mined. Thus we can give people isk based on what they mined instead of arbitrary values. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-introducing-the-mining-ledger-new-tools-for-miners-in-eve-online/31910.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-introducing-the-mining-ledger-new-tools-for-miners-in-eve-online/31910.md?page=4)