# Dev blog: Moon mining revamped - There’s Ore in Them Thar Moons **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** official, devblog\ **Created:** [July 19, 2017, 1:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-moon-mining-revamped-there-s-ore-in-them-thar-moons/10954 "2017-07-19T13:19:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![zieg\_miner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zieg_miner/32/9027_2.png) [@zieg\_miner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zieg_miner)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 7:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-moon-mining-revamped-there-s-ore-in-them-thar-moons/10954/361 "2017-07-21T19:45:20Z")
> [@Querns](#): > > Unfortunately for your argument, there is no inherent risk in any area of space. Players have to make that risk. In turn, the players who are being attacked are allowed to defend themselves. If you can’t overcome the defense, that’s Eve. That is the point supers can be killed and there is always risk when fielding them .Fact is risk versus reward should be equatable . Now if you think super bounty pay outs are too high . then adjust ratting to add gates that dont allow caps or supercaps . Change the mechanic but be prepared for the consequences. Ratting super deaths keep supply in demand and drive up mineral prices . ---
**Author:** ![Frostys\_Virpio](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/frostys_virpio/32/12703_2.png) [@Frostys\_Virpio](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Frostys_Virpio)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 7:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-moon-mining-revamped-there-s-ore-in-them-thar-moons/10954/362 "2017-07-21T19:46:26Z")
Is it supposed to be easy? ---
**Author:** ![Rivr\_Luzade](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rivr_luzade/32/311061_2.png) [@Rivr\_Luzade](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rivr_Luzade)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 7:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-moon-mining-revamped-there-s-ore-in-them-thar-moons/10954/363 "2017-07-21T19:48:03Z")
It is supposed to be feasible for everyone, not just a group of select few. The reality in EVE, however, is that this is not the case. ---
**Author:** ![zluq\_zabaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zluq_zabaa/32/19011_2.png) [@zluq\_zabaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zluq_zabaa)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 8:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-moon-mining-revamped-there-s-ore-in-them-thar-moons/10954/364 "2017-07-21T20:08:22Z")
> [@Querns](#): > > How are we “toxic?” That sounds like an opinion, not a fact. Pure hearsay, of Goons who were threatened to be kicked out after speaking up in Alliance chat that they are not happy with being forced to vote for GSF candidates in CSM elections. As far as I understood it, he was supposed to provide a screenshot of his vote to be controlled by Goon leadership. Also there are plenty of leaks that show how hazing is a normal part of Goon culture. Not to speak of your Alliance leader who was banned for telling people to haze a fellow Eve player so he will commit real life suicide. ---
**Author:** ![Jackie\_Cane](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jackie_cane/32/136156_2.png) [@Jackie\_Cane](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jackie_Cane)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 8:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-moon-mining-revamped-there-s-ore-in-them-thar-moons/10954/365 "2017-07-21T20:21:57Z")
The post doesn’t say anything about moon goo reactions. Will reactions still be done in POS’s after this change? ---
**Author:** ![zluq\_zabaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zluq_zabaa/32/19011_2.png) [@zluq\_zabaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zluq_zabaa)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 8:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-moon-mining-revamped-there-s-ore-in-them-thar-moons/10954/366 "2017-07-21T20:22:58Z")
No. There will be a Service Module for that. ---
**Author:** ![Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/corraidhin_farsaidh/32/10994_2.png) [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Corraidhin_Farsaidh)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 8:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-moon-mining-revamped-there-s-ore-in-them-thar-moons/10954/367 "2017-07-21T20:23:26Z")
I thought all reactions were moving to refineries, moon and gas. Could do with this being clarified though ---
**Author:** ![Querns](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/querns/32/157529_2.png) [@Querns](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Querns)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 8:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-moon-mining-revamped-there-s-ore-in-them-thar-moons/10954/368 "2017-07-21T20:24:05Z")
> [@zieg\_miner](#): > > That is the point supers can be killed and there is always risk when fielding them .Fact is risk versus reward should be equatable . Now if you think super bounty pay outs are too high . then adjust ratting to add gates that dont allow caps or supercaps . Change the mechanic but be prepared for the consequences. Ratting super deaths keep supply in demand and drive up mineral prices . The people who say “add a gate to anomalies” are funny, because they don’t realize that sites that are behind acceleration gates are an order of magnitude easier to safeguard than an open anomaly. ---
**Author:** ![Querns](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/querns/32/157529_2.png) [@Querns](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Querns)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 8:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-moon-mining-revamped-there-s-ore-in-them-thar-moons/10954/369 "2017-07-21T20:25:45Z")
> [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > Pure hearsay, of Goons who were threatened to be kicked out after speaking up in Alliance chat that they are not happy with being forced to vote for GSF candidates in CSM elections. As far as I understood it, he was supposed to provide a screenshot of his vote to be controlled by Goon leadership. Also there are plenty of leaks that show how hazing is a normal part of Goon culture. Not to speak of your Alliance leader who was banned for telling people to haze a fellow Eve player so he will commit real life suicide. Wow, the game of telephone is real. So let’s say that ridiculous thing you typed is true. How is the story of one group indicative of how all “large blocs” are? ---
**Author:** ![zieg\_miner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zieg_miner/32/9027_2.png) [@zieg\_miner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zieg_miner)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 8:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-moon-mining-revamped-there-s-ore-in-them-thar-moons/10954/370 "2017-07-21T20:26:35Z")
True you get additional warp out time . Same time you would not be able to make the same kind of isk and there is the obvious issue with the dwindle in demand foe supers and carriers that would acompny such a change. Still if you want to fix the isk printing of super ratting thats the only viable way i see how ---
**Author:** ![Querns](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/querns/32/157529_2.png) [@Querns](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Querns)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 8:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-moon-mining-revamped-there-s-ore-in-them-thar-moons/10954/371 "2017-07-21T20:29:12Z")
> [@Rivr\_Luzade](#): > > The only thing you do is refuse to accept the new realities how EVE plays. You refuse to accept that people would prevent any small entity with ease from mining their minerals although targeted and large scale Rorq hunting is already a reality. You refuse to accept that it is very easy to find out when and how asteroid fields are generated and with little effort figure out who and with what people will mine them to find lucrative targets. Connected to that you refuse to even consider that mining such a field in inadequate ships or having to warp in and out all the time because you cannot defend your small group from roaming around T3D, ceptor or other fast fleets actually prevents any not-sizeable group from being able to use “their” moons. > > You make it seem so easy to have these things and be able to actually use them as intended (I am not even talking about turning a profit), when in fact the reality in EVE is a completely different. That is why arguments with your participation turn in circles. Rorqual kills are common in Eve because of infinitely respawning anomalies and mass data gathering care of the in-game star map. I can pinpoint unerringly where mining is occurring in all areas of nullsec without error, because the star map tracks it. Similarly, there’s the potential for anomaly mining at all hours of the day, which drastically increases the surface area. Conversely, refineries require manual scouting. You can determine when a refinery is roughly going to pop its moon cherries, but doing so only gets you the information for one refinery. It is hardly equivalent to the always-available, mass surveillance ganking of rorquals in mining anomalies. The properties of refineries allow for significantly higher levels of subterfuge. ---
**Author:** ![Feilamya](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/feilamya/32/436018_2.png) [@Feilamya](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Feilamya)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 8:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-moon-mining-revamped-there-s-ore-in-them-thar-moons/10954/372 "2017-07-21T20:30:39Z")
I’m fine with that. If Eve was balanced, it would be as boring as all the other games out there… Worse, actually. EDIT: No sarcasm. ---
**Author:** ![zluq\_zabaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zluq_zabaa/32/19011_2.png) [@zluq\_zabaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zluq_zabaa)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 8:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-moon-mining-revamped-there-s-ore-in-them-thar-moons/10954/373 "2017-07-21T20:42:59Z")
> [@Querns](#): > > So let’s say that ridiculous thing you typed is true. How is the story of one group indicative of how all “large blocs” are? Yeah, let’s say it is true, because it is. The point is that a significant amount of players doesn’t like to organize themselves in the form of what you call “Empires”. Some of these people just got their income nerfed heavily. You say, they can choose to accept either that or that they should become “Empires” too. Ok, that is what CCP is pushing for. We will find out if it was a good decision or not by looking on numbers of active players later on. I’ll be happy if I find out I was wrong and this whole thing leads to more fights, more activity and more people online. I doubt it for the aforementioned reasons, but I would sincerely be happy to be proven wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Querns](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/querns/32/157529_2.png) [@Querns](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Querns)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 8:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-moon-mining-revamped-there-s-ore-in-them-thar-moons/10954/374 "2017-07-21T20:45:08Z")
> [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > Yeah, let’s say it is true, because it is. The point is that a significant amount of players doesn’t like to organize themselves in the form of what you call “Empires”. Some of these people just got their income nerfed heavily. You say, they can choose to accept either that or that they should become “Empires” too. Ok, that is what CCP is pushing for. We will find out if it was a good decision or not by looking on numbers of active players later on. I’ll be happy if I find out I was wrong and this whole thing leads to more fights, more activity and more people online. I doubt it for the aforementioned reasons, but I would sincerely be happy to be proven wrong. There we go again, trying to draw conclusions about everyone based on your own biases. This works about as well as your ability to know what the hell you’re talking about when you’re referring to us; which is to say, it doesn’t and you don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Querns](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/querns/32/157529_2.png) [@Querns](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Querns)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 8:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-moon-mining-revamped-there-s-ore-in-them-thar-moons/10954/375 "2017-07-21T20:49:29Z")
You know that a person has run out of arguments when they bring up the “this group is toxic, therefore what they have to say is wrong” bit, FYI. Probably a good time to pack it in. ---
**Author:** ![zluq\_zabaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zluq_zabaa/32/19011_2.png) [@zluq\_zabaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zluq_zabaa)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 8:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-moon-mining-revamped-there-s-ore-in-them-thar-moons/10954/376 "2017-07-21T20:53:02Z")
> [@Querns](#): > > You know that a person has run out of arguments when they bring up the “this group is toxic, therefore what they have to say is wrong” bit, FYI. Probably a good time to pack it in. Never said this is the reason you are wrong. I provided arguments for a) why Ninja-mining won’t be a thing, b) why small-time guys won’t profit from this change and c) why Lowsec is nerfed and d) Nullsec is not. You talked so overly proud about “your” Alliance that I had to remember line-members telling me about the toxic atmosphere. It was to remind you that you are speaking about your perspective from inside the leadership, not the line-member. You didn’t present any argument, why the specific new mechanics will be good for anyone other than yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Querns](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/querns/32/157529_2.png) [@Querns](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Querns)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 8:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-moon-mining-revamped-there-s-ore-in-them-thar-moons/10954/377 "2017-07-21T20:53:49Z")
> [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > You talked so overly proud about “your” Alliance that I had to remember line-members telling me about the toxic atmosphere. It was to remind you that you are speaking about your perspective from inside the leadership, not the line-member. BTW, I’m not in GSF leadership. I’m a line member. It helps to actually have a clue what you’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![zluq\_zabaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zluq_zabaa/32/19011_2.png) [@zluq\_zabaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zluq_zabaa)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 8:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-moon-mining-revamped-there-s-ore-in-them-thar-moons/10954/378 "2017-07-21T20:56:28Z")
> [@Querns](#): > > BTW, I’m not in GSF leadership. I’m a line member. And yet you go a long way explaining everyone how you tailored Alliance level income for past years. Btw, stating that you are so completely independent from moongoo while being extremely active in every forum thread around this topic, makes what you say sound a hush dishonest. ---
**Author:** ![Querns](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/querns/32/157529_2.png) [@Querns](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Querns)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 9:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-moon-mining-revamped-there-s-ore-in-them-thar-moons/10954/379 "2017-07-21T21:00:18Z")
> [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > And yet you go a long way explaining everyone how you tailored Alliance level income for past years. > > Btw, stating that you are so completely independent from moongoo while being extremely active in every forum thread around this topic, makes what you say sound a hush dishonest. I said “we,” as in “my alliance.” If I’d done it personally, I would have said “I.” Pronouns are hard. You’re conflating alliance-level income with the feature. Even if the whole thing ends up being a dud, we’re still going to do it for our guys, because they like to mine. The only reason to even bring up the finances bit was to illustrate that moongoo isn’t the sole source of alliance income, if you’re willing to think about the problem for more than a moment before giving up. ---
**Author:** ![zluq\_zabaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zluq_zabaa/32/19011_2.png) [@zluq\_zabaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zluq_zabaa)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 9:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-moon-mining-revamped-there-s-ore-in-them-thar-moons/10954/380 "2017-07-21T21:12:38Z")
> [@Querns](#): > > You’re conflating alliance-level income with the feature. Even if the whole thing ends up being a dud, we’re still going to do it for our guys, because they like to mine. The only reason to even bring up the finances bit was to illustrate that moongoo isn’t the sole source of alliance income, if you’re willing to think about the problem for more than a moment before giving up. Why should I overly care for wether or not GSF is having other forms in income. The information you provide are just like the attempts of provocation: meaningless and shallow. You are saying nothing besides playing fanboy for a change that you (as in your Alliance) will profit from. Ok, I got that and that’s not a bad thing. But you fail to provide any argument why your group and the way it is organized should be mechanically finding advantages that others don’t. You try to convince people who have no idea about moon mining that they will have a chance to make dank isk - to try make them not see how they exactly won’t profit from it, but still become fanboys to support you making profits. Also understandable, why wouldn’t you. You don’t care about the good of the game as a whole, but only about your temporary advantage in it. Well… yeah… we are discussing on two completely different levels here man. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-moon-mining-revamped-there-s-ore-in-them-thar-moons/10954.md?page=18) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-moon-mining-revamped-there-s-ore-in-them-thar-moons/10954.md?page=20)