# Dev blog: Moon mining revamped - There’s Ore in Them Thar Moons **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** official, devblog\ **Created:** [July 19, 2017, 1:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-moon-mining-revamped-there-s-ore-in-them-thar-moons/10954 "2017-07-19T13:19:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Virtuozzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/virtuozzo/32/9013_2.png) [@Virtuozzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Virtuozzo)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 2:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-moon-mining-revamped-there-s-ore-in-them-thar-moons/10954/61 "2017-07-19T14:34:09Z")
As a small to medium group you get to become a new type of pet. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale\_Pirannha](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dinsdale_pirannha/32/254927_2.png) [@Dinsdale\_Pirannha](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dinsdale_Pirannha)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 2:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-moon-mining-revamped-there-s-ore-in-them-thar-moons/10954/62 "2017-07-19T14:35:13Z")
Great, so your concept of “random” means that the null sec cartels will still have the same, if not MORE, economic resources within their existing domains? Define, precisely, what your parameters and restrictions that will be applied, please. ---
**Author:** ![SIEGE\_RED](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/siege_red/32/25316_2.png) [@SIEGE\_RED](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/SIEGE_RED)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 2:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-moon-mining-revamped-there-s-ore-in-them-thar-moons/10954/63 "2017-07-19T14:38:36Z")
No, within those domains, and outside of them. Spheres of economic influence. New Eden has already seen several types of this since the introduction of structures, for example the trade hub drama wars. Maybe it’s clear now why those spots are not just for the broker fees, but for logistical & asset zoning. High sec as an example is carved up in this way already, it’s just low sec which isn’t yet. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale\_Pirannha](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dinsdale_pirannha/32/254927_2.png) [@Dinsdale\_Pirannha](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dinsdale_Pirannha)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 2:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-moon-mining-revamped-there-s-ore-in-them-thar-moons/10954/64 "2017-07-19T14:41:48Z")
> [@Virtuozzo](#): > > > [@Querns](#): > > > > This is almost true, but it’s missing a key point – the locust effect. > > > > What we’ll do is fully denude a constellation/region of its resources, and move to the next. No one will want the area we’ve left behind, because it’s barren. This provides no room for the “lucky smaller entity” to find anything at all. Conversely, the design as mentioned keeps us confined to our area – there’s no need to go further out. The manpower requirement also puts a hard cap on the amount of moongoo we can mine, so we can’t just go out and slam down refineries everywhere without it costing us money for no reason. > > > > And CCP can think of briliant concepts for compensatory mechanisms, player triggers, equivalents of friggin irrigation. Bloody hell, this is the very kind of thing to revitalise EVE and make it ■■■■■■■ grow again. Plus stupid amounts of connector options for marketing and real world hookups. > > > > I won’t pretend like it’s going to be some sort of small group renaissance, but it’s sure as hell a better deal than any macro-level empire tool has given a small group in some time. > > Which is a GOOD thing. > > Why? Because it triggers people to deal with ■■■■. Their own choices, the consequences of it. It triggers them to notice pressure elsewhere, the kind of pressure the violates gentleman’s accords. It stimulates people to experiment with different organisational models. > > Jeezis tittifucking christ, there was a time where we had frigging wannabee miners with pitchforks roleplaying a democracy out in nullsec complete with everything that it entailed. We had trailer trash roaming like locusts being the elite of the elite predators. We had the equivalent of roman ■■■■■■■ legions complete with internal punishments of decimation. I can go on for hours like this. > > Static resource models by their very definition enforce behavioural effects of both greed AND perverse effect types for every human organisational model while simultaneously enforcing an adaptation path towards optimal routines of least energy consumption. > > Andys, if anyone points this out, seriously. EVE ain’t a set of mechanical interactions, it’s a pixel village of every type of human concept tossed into a pressure vat. There is absolutely nothing which still generates pressure other than the bling divide lines. CCP should know its customers by now, we do anything to enforce status quo unless we are triggered in such a way that differences and change as a constant rewards different behaviour. > > Holy ■■■■, what am I doing again in this place :psyccp: Also, how the hell did that emoji make it from Failheap to here 🙂 Bingo. You nailed it. In a nutshell, running a huge organization that now has to have some element of nomadic operations is a logistical nightmare. The goon propaganda artist can lie all he likes about how the goons would become like that locust race in Independence Day (I just retched in my mouth thinking about that movie), but the fact is that no organization, especially the big ones, can migrate from place to place constantly. It wears out players too much. Randomized resources does not work well for hegemonic groups like goons. Smaller, more mobile groups benefit. ---
**Author:** ![Querns](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/querns/32/157529_2.png) [@Querns](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Querns)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 2:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-moon-mining-revamped-there-s-ore-in-them-thar-moons/10954/65 "2017-07-19T14:43:21Z")
> [@Dinsdale\_Pirannha](#): > > Randomized resources does not work well for hegemonic groups like goons. Smaller, more mobile groups benefit. So, how is the smaller group supposed to out-scan us, when we have several orders of magnitude more manpower? ---
**Author:** ![Rivr\_Luzade](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rivr_luzade/32/311061_2.png) [@Rivr\_Luzade](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rivr_Luzade)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 2:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-moon-mining-revamped-there-s-ore-in-them-thar-moons/10954/66 "2017-07-19T14:52:57Z")
This is nonsense. This change will do nothing to help smaller groups. For the simple reason that they now cannot mine the materials at all. At the moment, they can drop a tower and maybe bigger people don’t care because tower shooting is annoying. Then, they may be able to drop their MEdium Refinery but mining the actual belt will be impossible because anyone knows that it’s mining and potentially even exactly when the time for the asteroid belt spawn comes. In other words: scheduled perfect drop targets for those who now cannot hold big moon empires any more and a waste of massive funds for smaller groups. Great work. ---
**Author:** ![Querns](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/querns/32/157529_2.png) [@Querns](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Querns)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 2:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-moon-mining-revamped-there-s-ore-in-them-thar-moons/10954/67 "2017-07-19T14:59:22Z")
> [@Rivr\_Luzade](#): > > This is nonsense. This change will do nothing to help smaller groups. For the simple reason that they now cannot mine the materials at all. At the moment, they can drop a tower and maybe bigger people don’t care because tower shooting is annoying. Then, they may be able to drop their MEdium Refinery but mining the actual belt will be impossible because anyone knows that it’s mining and potentially even exactly when the time for the asteroid belt spawn comes. > > In other words: scheduled perfect drop targets for those who now cannot hold big moon empires any more and a waste of massive funds for smaller groups. Great work. So, are you volunteering to scout every medium refinery in Eve to look for drop targets? This may be the case for some areas, but it’s not going to be universal. I never said that this is going to be a small-group renaissance, but some chance is better than the contemporary situation of “absolutely no chance whatsoever, uninstall and go play PUBG.” ---
**Author:** ![Tribal\_Trogdor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tribal_trogdor/32/215753_2.png) [@Tribal\_Trogdor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tribal_Trogdor)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 3:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-moon-mining-revamped-there-s-ore-in-them-thar-moons/10954/68 "2017-07-19T15:01:23Z")
I am in a smaller group. I am in a smaller group that currently has 32 towers. I am in a smaller group that will be mining these new moons. I am in a smaller group that will be pvp’ing people who come looking for miner kills. Please stop crying that smaller groups can do nothing, its untrue. A “good” small group can do plenty. If your small group can’t, find a new one. Or work with several other small groups until you can. ---
**Author:** ![Andre\_Vauban](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/andre_vauban/32/170796_2.png) [@Andre\_Vauban](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Andre_Vauban)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 3:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-moon-mining-revamped-there-s-ore-in-them-thar-moons/10954/69 "2017-07-19T15:06:20Z")
Any update you can share with how the issue of having multiple refineries on a moon will work (ie which one gets to mine it)? Also, will the NPC mining fleets deplete these new asteroid fields? ---
**Author:** ![SIEGE\_RED](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/siege_red/32/25316_2.png) [@SIEGE\_RED](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/SIEGE_RED)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 3:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-moon-mining-revamped-there-s-ore-in-them-thar-moons/10954/70 "2017-07-19T15:07:45Z")
> [@Querns](#): > > So, are you volunteering to scout every medium refinery in Eve to look for drop targets? > > This may be the case for some areas, but it’s not going to be universal. I never said that this is going to be a small-group renaissance, but some chance is better than the contemporary situation of “absolutely no chance whatsoever, uninstall and go play PUBG.” Organisational scale always works for deeper impact than absence of scale. Aside of that, rest assured people will be sharing, stealing, copying and collecting data - both within and outside of the big agreements. And most of the almost-top dogs have their own feeder groups who will be tasked. Mapping moons is going to take at most a week or two. After that comes people occupying them, using them, and then waking up to reality. Finding small groups using what where isn’t going to be a problem either. Give it time for the pressure on Crest elements to work. Also, map data, predictability of people, even just the simple use of throwing your weight around. Oh hi little neighbour, say you like that moon stuff? Good ain’t it? So yeah, we need that area done, you can handle that right? Wouldn’t want anything bad to happen between us. Ok cheers mate. Two weeks later. So yeah, we’re 20 times your size, and a few thousand of us are a bit bored, but some others need XYZ at say 20% retail value. We also have some close friends that live near ya with special needs. So how about it. The rest is optimisation, result is status quo enlarged and enforced. With just the same amount and type of rub as before, and that’s it. It will only look like there’s more niches and groups, which is nice to playing with statistics, whereas the actual state of affairs is again a lot less one of emergent behaviour. Anything but. But yey, statistics is so much fun. Nice charts, all looks awesome. ---
**Author:** ![Hendrink\_Collie](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hendrink_collie/32/51817_2.png) [@Hendrink\_Collie](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hendrink_Collie)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 3:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-moon-mining-revamped-there-s-ore-in-them-thar-moons/10954/71 "2017-07-19T15:07:48Z")
Admittedly when I first read the blog, I was a bit annoyed about the changes; however, after a little additional reading and thinking… it could work. I do like that the changes will give smaller groups the ability to break into the moon mining game while at the same time rewards groups that are organized and can scale operations. Currently the most expensive moons are mostly controlled by a few select elite blocs. These changes seem to allow smaller entities at least a taste of the goo game. That’s a good change. I am a bit worried about the possibility of lack of scarcity though. We have limited reason to invade new regions besides “hurr durr content” as it is. Be careful not to overload regions with resources. ---
**Author:** ![Rivr\_Luzade](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rivr_luzade/32/311061_2.png) [@Rivr\_Luzade](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rivr_Luzade)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 3:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-moon-mining-revamped-there-s-ore-in-them-thar-moons/10954/72 "2017-07-19T15:09:03Z")
That’s no big deal for a group with 30k members. It’s also not a big deal for a group with 3k members surrounded by smaller groups. It’s also not a big deal because after a short amount of time you know where the structures are and which are worthwhile. It’s also not hard to setup tools to monitor the timers. ---
**Author:** ![Querns](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/querns/32/157529_2.png) [@Querns](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Querns)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 3:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-moon-mining-revamped-there-s-ore-in-them-thar-moons/10954/73 "2017-07-19T15:10:02Z")
> [@Rivr\_Luzade](#): > > That’s no big deal for a group with 30k members. It’s also not a big deal for a group with 3k members surrounded by smaller groups. It’s also not a big deal because after a short amount of time you know where the structures are and which are worthwhile. It’s also not hard to setup tools to monitor the timers. All of this stuff requires manual scouting, and requires you to endure jump fatigue. ---
**Author:** ![Querns](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/querns/32/157529_2.png) [@Querns](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Querns)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 3:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-moon-mining-revamped-there-s-ore-in-them-thar-moons/10954/74 "2017-07-19T15:10:50Z")
> [@SIEGE\_RED](#): > > Organisational scale always works for deeper impact than absence of scale. Aside of that, rest assured people will be sharing, stealing, copying and collecting data - both within and outside of the big agreements. And most of the almost-top dogs have their own feeder groups who will be tasked. > > Mapping moons is going to take at most a week or two. After that comes people occupying them, using them, and then waking up to reality. A quote from a man who has never done moon scanning, or participated meaningfully in moon affairs other than “sieged green and hit F1.” ---
**Author:** ![SIEGE\_RED](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/siege_red/32/25316_2.png) [@SIEGE\_RED](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/SIEGE_RED)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 3:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-moon-mining-revamped-there-s-ore-in-them-thar-moons/10954/75 "2017-07-19T15:11:35Z")
Alts’r’us. Pet mechanisms. Distributed control. The rest is affirmation of the traditional organisational doctrines. ---
**Author:** ![zieg\_miner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zieg_miner/32/9027_2.png) [@zieg\_miner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zieg_miner)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 3:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-moon-mining-revamped-there-s-ore-in-them-thar-moons/10954/76 "2017-07-19T15:12:03Z")
As far as i know ccp have already stated you can only anchor 1 refinery per moon that should negate the problem you mentioned ---
**Author:** ![Querns](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/querns/32/157529_2.png) [@Querns](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Querns)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 3:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-moon-mining-revamped-there-s-ore-in-them-thar-moons/10954/77 "2017-07-19T15:13:48Z")
> [@SIEGE\_RED](#): > > Alts’r’us. Pet mechanisms. Distributed control. The rest is affirmation of the traditional organisational doctrines. Verbally masturbating about a vignette with perfectly logical actors is about as productive as masturbating physically. You have no experience with the things you’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![blazigen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/blazigen/32/491485_2.png) [@blazigen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/blazigen)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 3:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-moon-mining-revamped-there-s-ore-in-them-thar-moons/10954/78 "2017-07-19T15:16:37Z")
CCP I sincerly hope you guys are working on a different defensive mechanics for these refineries else. You will almost have stifled any conflict in eve over resources in game in a single swell swoop. ---
**Author:** ![John\_McCreedy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/john_mccreedy/32/379136_2.png) [@John\_McCreedy](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/John_McCreedy)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 3:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-moon-mining-revamped-there-s-ore-in-them-thar-moons/10954/79 "2017-07-19T15:18:13Z")
“Moongooium Ore”. I like this name. I think this one should make it into the final release. ---
**Author:** ![SIEGE\_RED](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/siege_red/32/25316_2.png) [@SIEGE\_RED](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/SIEGE_RED)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 3:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-moon-mining-revamped-there-s-ore-in-them-thar-moons/10954/80 "2017-07-19T15:18:53Z")
> [@Querns](#): > > A quote from a man who has never done moon scanning, or participated meaningfully in moon affairs other than “sieged green and hit F1.” > [@Querns](#): > > Verbally masturbating about a vignette with perfectly logical actors is about as productive as masturbating physically. > > You have no experience with the things you’re talking about. Awww did someone catch you in a bad place? How smart to try and catch someone with frames while having absolutely zero clue on who / what / where past & present 😛 Look, it’s ok, I get it. But don’t confuse an avatar on a forum with an identity. Don’t make assumptions in general, alright? As for masturbating, please don’t take it the wrong way, but would you mind getting your own tissue? I’m not going to get it for you. I’ll have you know that when the first moon mining drama came, I did four regions on my own because back then people hadn’t learned organisational doctrine yet. Made a killing selling the data, both the correct and the tainted data. Then when the map changed, another race. Then when the distribution changed, once again. But let’s not get stuck in grandfather Thug’s tales of the past shall we? Now with that out of the way, you can either engage in more of the same, or be open for an actually constructive discussion. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-moon-mining-revamped-there-s-ore-in-them-thar-moons/10954.md?page=3) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-moon-mining-revamped-there-s-ore-in-them-thar-moons/10954.md?page=5)