# Dev blog: Upwell 2.0 - Structures Changes Coming On February 13th! **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** official, devblog\ **Created:** [January 18, 2018, 5:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885 "2018-01-18T17:34:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![CCP\_Falcon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ccp_falcon/32/143229_2.png) [@CCP\_Falcon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/CCP_Falcon)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 5:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/1 "2018-01-18T17:34:25Z")
As we move forward toward the February Release, and the coming of Upwell Structures 2.0, there’ll be lots of changes appearing on Singularity over the course of the next few days. Team Five-0 have been hard at work putting together a long list of changes based on community and CSM feedback, so here’s a Dev blog to explain what’s coming. Be sure to leave your feedback in this thread! [Check out all the changes in the latest Dev blog from Team Five-0.](https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/upwell-2.0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/) ---
**Author:** ![CCP\_Falcon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ccp_falcon/32/143229_2.png) [@CCP\_Falcon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/CCP_Falcon)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 5:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/2 "2018-01-18T17:34:34Z")
FAQ: **January 20th:** > [@CCP\_Fozzie](#): > > Hey folks. Thanks for reading the blog and for the replies so far! > I’ve replied to several of the questions in the thread so far, but there are three issues that we’re seeing raised a repeatedly in the thread that we wanted to give special attention: > > **The Standup GTFO** > Big thanks to everyone who has been giving us feedback on this module so far. We’re hearing you loud and clear and spent some time discussing the concerns raised by the community as a team internally and with the CSM today. What I can say with confidence right now is that we will definitely be making major changes to this part of the plan based on your feedback so far. We are seriously considering a few options right now including fully removing the Standup GTFO from the plan, or limiting it to highec only (where fights tend to be a bit smaller and where AoE weapon options are much more limited for structure owners). Keep passing along your feedback and we’ll update you all on the plan as it develops next week. > > **5 minute fitting period** > We’re seeing plenty of concern that this period makes deploying structures too easy. We definitely consider those concerns valid. This mode was added to the plan largely because we were seeing both in feedback and metrics that there was too much of an “all or nothing” element to structure anchoring where the survival rate of anchoring structures in their onlining vulnerability was quite low while the survival rate of structures that made it past that phase was too high. The goal here is to make this distinction less severe by increasing the survivability in that initial repair timer while reducing it for the rest of the structure lifetime through vulnerability and combat changes. We will be taking a look at how the combat changes shake out on the test server and evaluating with that feedback over the coming weeks before deployment. > > **TiDi and repair timers** > We’ve been seeing quite a few requests about dilation of repair timers since the recent Cloud Ring fight where a titan distraction allowed a keepstar to repair. We won’t rule out changing the relationship between the repair timer and TiDi at some point, but I can definitely say that changes of that nature are non-trivial. > The repair timers were originally set to use “wall-clock” rather than “sim-clock” time, both because of their relatively long duration compared to most sim-clock features and because under the current system more than one server node must keep track of the structure state changes and sim-clock timers are always limited to a single server node. We took a look at the code to see how reasonable it would be to change and came away determining that it would be far from a quick or simple change. > To be completely honest we’re also a bit concerned that dilating that timer would actually cause more complaints (150 minute repair timers can feel pretty rough) rather than less. Like most decisions relating to server performance in very heavy fights this is a matter of tradeoffs and a bunch of difficult choices with no easy/good answers. > > Thanks again for the feedback everyone! I also want to just repeat the reminder from the Test Server forum thread that the stats of modules and structures on SISI right now are not even remotely close to final (especially the new stuff). Remember that there will also be a lot of bugs with early test server builds. We really appreciate everyone checking out the test server and submitting bug reports, they are extremely helpful. > Have a good night o/ **January 28th:** > [@CCP\_Fozzie](#): > > Hello again everyone! Thanks again for the continued discussion. I’ve finally caught up with the new posts in this thread and today I’m able to share with you all a few changes to the the plan that we’re making based on your feedback so far. > > We’re removing the Standup GTFO from the plan. We completely agree with the concerns raised about this module in high-load situations and since we haven’t been seeing much excitement or interest in using it in lower load fight either we’ve decided to simply drop it from the plan. > > We’re removing the 5 minute fitting period from the plan as well. We won’t rule out potentially re-adding it in the future if the meta has changed enough due to other changes that it becomes necessary or helpful, but we’re happy to leave it out of the initial release and see how things go. > > Doubling the final “last stand” hull repair timers for all Upwell Structures to 30m. This provides more time for attackers to get into position or to reposition, and should slightly mitigate some of the extra challenges in high-load fights. This doubling would not impact the initial deployment hull repair timers which would stay at 15m. We are investigating options around dilating repair timers, but we can’t make any promises in that direction as there are technical concerns that haven’t been fully estimated. > > Thanks again for the feedback and keep it coming! ---
**Author:** ![CCP\_Falcon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ccp_falcon/32/143229_2.png) [@CCP\_Falcon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/CCP_Falcon)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 5:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/3 "2018-01-18T17:34:50Z")
RESERVED FOR FAQ ---
**Author:** ![Vivianne\_Athonille](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vivianne_athonille/32/512723_2.png) [@Vivianne\_Athonille](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vivianne_Athonille)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 5:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/5 "2018-01-18T17:56:17Z")
So no courier dropbox? ---
**Author:** ![CCP\_Fozzie](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ccp_fozzie/32/476703_2.png) [@CCP\_Fozzie](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/CCP_Fozzie)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 5:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/6 "2018-01-18T17:57:45Z")
> [@Vivianne\_Athonille](#): > > So no courier dropbox? Courier dropbox is still something that we want to get implemented at some point but it wasn’t able to make it into this release. ---
**Author:** ![Rowells](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rowells/32/141343_2.png) [@Rowells](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rowells)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 5:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/7 "2018-01-18T17:59:29Z")
So just to confirm, if a structure is in low power mode, the armor hp will just go away? It’s not gonna come out and I have to shoot through armor then hull, correct? ---
**Author:** ![CCP\_Fozzie](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ccp_fozzie/32/476703_2.png) [@CCP\_Fozzie](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/CCP_Fozzie)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 6:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/8 "2018-01-18T18:01:14Z")
> [@Rowells](#): > > So just to confirm, if a structure is in low power mode, the armor hp will just go away? It’s not gonna come out and I have to shoot through armor then hull, correct? If a structure is in low power mode at the time that it is initially reinforced then yes it will skip armor entirely and come out of reinforced in hull. If a structure is in full power mode when it is initially reinforced but then goes into low power mode while reinforced, it will continue to the regularly scheduled armor vulnerability with low armor resists. ---
**Author:** ![Querns](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/querns/32/157529_2.png) [@Querns](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Querns)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 6:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/9 "2018-01-18T18:02:46Z")
Wow, this is quite the change list. I’m still digesting. One question: regarding the overview change for structures and their accessibility status: ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/8/1/816d4d2f3ed67b36261550ea86d454411d626da0.jpg) Will we be able to filter overviews based on this information? For example, can I remove restricted structures from my overview? ---
**Author:** ![Insidious](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/insidious/32/171848_2.png) [@Insidious](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Insidious)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 6:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/10 "2018-01-18T18:05:55Z")
Tried my hardest to like something in this structure blog, as its quite important to the games development, and get that EVE feeling going. Nope, this just feels like pandering the capital meta and keep this new form of game-mode going. But this is a far-reaching blog. I hate everything about Citadels currently. Wake me up in 2020 p.s. even these forums are way more unlikable ---
**Author:** ![Fish\_Hunter](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/fish_hunter/32/248430_2.png) [@Fish\_Hunter](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Fish_Hunter)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 6:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/11 "2018-01-18T18:08:26Z")
So you’re saying that this Low Power Mode is visible to all without scanning? ---
**Author:** ![CCP\_Fozzie](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ccp_fozzie/32/476703_2.png) [@CCP\_Fozzie](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/CCP_Fozzie)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 6:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/12 "2018-01-18T18:09:31Z")
> [@Querns](#): > > One question: regarding the overview change for structures and their accessibility status: > Will we be able to filter overviews based on this information? For example, can I remove restricted structures from my overview? Not initially, and I can’t make any promises but it’s a good suggestion and I’ll ask our UI pro about it when she get back from vacation. ---
**Author:** ![CCP\_Fozzie](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ccp_fozzie/32/476703_2.png) [@CCP\_Fozzie](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/CCP_Fozzie)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 6:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/13 "2018-01-18T18:10:07Z")
> [@Fish\_Hunter](#): > > So you’re saying that this Low Power Mode is visible to all without scanning? Yup low power mode shows up to everyone with no hacking needed. ---
**Author:** ![Dirk\_Stetille](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dirk_stetille/32/416382_2.png) [@Dirk\_Stetille](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dirk_Stetille)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 6:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/14 "2018-01-18T18:10:55Z")
@CCP_Falcon @CCP_Fozzie Can you confirm whether the Standup Shadow BPCs will be exclusive to LP stores, or will it be included into incursion loot drop tables? ---
**Author:** ![Rowells](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rowells/32/141343_2.png) [@Rowells](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rowells)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 6:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/15 "2018-01-18T18:10:55Z")
> A new five minute “fitting invulnerable” state has been added to the Upwell structure deployment process. This new state falls after the 24 hour anchoring period but before the structure becomes vulnerable to attack for its onlining repair timer. During this five-minute period the structure is invulnerable and can be boarded and fitted, but it cannot activate any modules or launch fighters. The intent of this mode is to provide a more exciting engagement for the onlining repair timer as the structure itself will be able to participate in the fight. It also prevents a potentially frustrating situation of having your structure continuously attacked to prevent the fitting of modules at all. Ok, this I think is going to be problematic. It almost entirely defeats the purpose of leaving the structure vulnerable for that 15-minute period. This doesn’t leave the attacker (space defender?) with much as an advantage to prevent structure emplacement. We’ve already seen how annoying and painful multiple structure anchoring spam can be. With this, you won’t even be able to keep a structure paused long enough to deal with more than a few at a time, and that’s before considering the structure defenders. This is a huge advantage to groups with large resources and any groups performing an incursion in contested areas. ---
**Author:** ![Capqu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/capqu/32/257465_2.png) [@Capqu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Capqu)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 6:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/16 "2018-01-18T18:12:23Z")
The 4 hour window is great, but I think it would be even better if it was 4 hours and also influenced by other factors - for example widening the window with every citadel in system, and decreasing the window with friendly strategic level. That way it can be influenced by defenders and attackers alike and lower priority citadels would be easier to kill, but higher priority ones harder - rather than every citadel being the same 4 hour gamble. I really don’t like the 490km lock range or the GTFO additions, the lock range makes an already powerful structure even more powerful and negates the only tactic we’ve seen used to attack an online Keepstar (Titans at edge of lock, with FAX just out of range, ready to engage defenders). The GTFO still hard tackles capitals for it’s duration which I don’t know if it will be the case for citadels, but I think it should be looked at if it is. Edit: Assumed GTFO would have 100km range, but on SISI it’s at 300km. That’s monumentally dumb, and a huge buff to citadel defenses when half the community complaint was how hard they are to engage in addition to a hostile fleet. The invulnerable-fitting timer is also kinda shitty, it means there is no effective difference between catching an onlining citadel and showing up to its final timer which was determined to the second by the defender. The defenders of an anchoring citadel already have the exact timer advantage and the knowledge which the attackers have to discover - they shouldn’t also have a fully operational structure on their side. Not being able to force a weekend timer is still a huge issue. TZ tanking is kind of addressed but TZ tanking combined with weekday tanking is still a major problem that Upwell structures have. ---
**Author:** ![Inquisitor\_Lucious](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/inquisitor_lucious/32/38566_2.png) [@Inquisitor\_Lucious](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Inquisitor_Lucious)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 6:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/17 "2018-01-18T18:13:28Z")
“To improve the balance around using carriers from within tether range of structures, launching fighters is now considered an aggressive action for the tethering system. This means that any carrier or supercarrier with fighters under its control will automatically break tether and remain untethered until it either recalls or abandons the fighters (or those fighters are destroyed in combat)” Maybe I’m being overly cynical here, but this change just seems to a direct response to a mechanic that has been picked up and used by the dreaded goonies, afterall the ability to launch fighters and fighter bombers with out breaking tether has been a part of the citadels since they were first introduced and only now is it being changed. What about drones though? Is launching drones not also an aggressive act? The only real difference from my point of view is scale. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Ronuken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/steve_ronuken/32/373894_2.png) [@Steve\_Ronuken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Steve_Ronuken)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 6:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/18 "2018-01-18T18:14:03Z")
It means you can take it down without going through 2 reinforcement cycles. ---
**Author:** ![Orontes\_Ovasi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/orontes_ovasi/32/439806_2.png) [@Orontes\_Ovasi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Orontes_Ovasi)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 6:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/19 "2018-01-18T18:22:39Z")
> After some productive discussions with the CSM at our recent summit meeting, we will also be increasing the locking range of Upwell structures significantly to better enable them to engage with targets at extreme ranges. Base lock range of Upwell Structures is planned to increase to 400km, with the ability to increase it further to a cap of 490km through the existing targeting speed rigs and modules which will be expanded to also provide targeting range bonuses in addition to their current benefits. i cannot wait to see the minutes to find out which mangos thought this was a good idea ---
**Author:** ![Rowells](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rowells/32/141343_2.png) [@Rowells](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rowells)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 6:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/20 "2018-01-18T18:24:02Z")
> A new icon has been added to structure brackets in the overview and space scene to indicate whether you currently have permission to dock in that structure. I’m glad this is coming, but when are we going to be able to color them in the overview like ships and POSes? Also, can we get a bit of a lock-speed buff for large and medium structures? It currently sounds like the 30-second scrambler activation is going to be shorter than many locktimes for these. Keepstars currently have that one rig that dramatically buffs lockspeed to a reasonable level, but all the other structures have a severe lack of flexibility when adapting their targets to any ongoing combat. ---
**Author:** ![Julien\_Brellier](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/julien_brellier/32/171562_2.png) [@Julien\_Brellier](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Julien_Brellier)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 6:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/21 "2018-01-18T18:25:20Z")
Well, this thread should be all kinds of fun ![popcorn_jon_stewart](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/b/1/b11a8c980c6ded44c88acdcff44b70289ac244f8.gif) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885.md?page=2)