# Dev blog: Upwell 2.0 - Structures Changes Coming On February 13th! **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** official, devblog\ **Created:** [January 18, 2018, 5:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885 "2018-01-18T17:34:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![Zenrol](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zenrol/32/120414_2.png) [@Zenrol](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zenrol)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 1:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/466 "2018-01-27T13:29:39Z")
“Another issue that the CSM raised at our recent summit meeting was the removal of structure rigs before destruction to deny satisfaction to the attackers. To solve this issue, destruction of fitted rigs will no longer be possible while a structure is damaged. **Rigs will essentially follow the same rules as modules**.” So you can remove/change rigs without rigs beeing destroyed ? ( like in a Tengu ) ---
**Author:** ![Moac\_Tor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/moac_tor/32/137663_2.png) [@Moac\_Tor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Moac_Tor)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 3:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/467 "2018-01-27T15:02:40Z")
> [@CCP\_Falcon](#): > > > **5 minute fitting period** > > We’re seeing plenty of concern that this period makes deploying structures too easy. We definitely consider those concerns valid. This mode was added to the plan largely because we were seeing both in feedback and metrics that there was too much of an “all or nothing” element to structure anchoring where the survival rate of anchoring structures in their onlining vulnerability was quite low while the survival rate of structures that made it past that phase was too high. The goal here is to make this distinction less severe by increasing the survivability in that initial repair timer while reducing it for the rest of the structure lifetime through vulnerability and combat changes. We will be taking a look at how the combat changes shake out on the test server and evaluating with that feedback over the coming weeks before deployment. The 5 minute fitting window is a really great change. I completely agree with the sentiment you mention behind the changes, if you are deploying a structure then it should be able to defend itself as otherwise is just bad gameplay for both the defender (who doesn’t get to use his structure in combat) and the attacker (who ends up bashing an undefended structure for 20+ minutes). Eve is about good fights and getting to use these structures in combat will encourage fights, rather than them simply becoming unrewarding structure bashes. ---
**Author:** ![Moac\_Tor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/moac_tor/32/137663_2.png) [@Moac\_Tor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Moac_Tor)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 3:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/468 "2018-01-27T15:09:02Z")
> [@Capqu](#): > > The invulnerable-fitting timer is also kinda shitty, it means there is no effective difference between catching an onlining citadel and showing up to its final timer which was determined to the second by the defender. The defenders of an anchoring citadel already have the exact timer advantage and the knowledge which the attackers have to discover - they shouldn’t also have a fully operational structure on their side. The difference is you get to kill a citadel in 1 timer rather than having to go through 3. ---
**Author:** ![Moac\_Tor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/moac_tor/32/137663_2.png) [@Moac\_Tor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Moac_Tor)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 3:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/469 "2018-01-27T15:16:18Z")
Any chance of increasing that timer, 30 seconds will make the scrambler pretty useless, it should be at least a couple of minutes. Also I don’t see any reason why the web needs to have a cooldown timer. They will become two of the most useless citadel modules given those changes. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 9:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/470 "2018-01-27T21:47:13Z")
> [@Zenrol](#): > > So you can remove/change rigs without rigs beeing destroyed ? ( like in a Tengu ) Other way around. Rigs won’t be able to be changed when the structure is damaged. Including removal. ---
**Author:** ![Warrior\_Xena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/warrior_xena/32/173536_2.png) [@Warrior\_Xena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Warrior_Xena)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2018, 7:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/471 "2018-01-28T07:32:48Z")
Yeah let’s make a fortizar easier to kill, 7 subcaps is too big a fleet. ---
**Author:** ![Warrior\_Xena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/warrior_xena/32/173536_2.png) [@Warrior\_Xena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Warrior_Xena)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2018, 7:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/472 "2018-01-28T07:42:05Z")
> [@Zoltan\_Lazar](#): > > The keepstar fight saw 1000x the cost in ships on field than the keepstar itself. A keepstar is worth 300 bil easily. What keepstar fight have you seen with 300 TRILLION isk worth of attacking ships ? > [@Zoltan\_Lazar](#): > > Even the most basic citadel killing fleet will cost several times the structure. At this time you can kill a fortizar with a small fleet of subcaps. Any defense you put on it is way weaker than the defense of a deathstar pos which is 5-6 times cheaper and supposedly replaceable with an astrahus. If you want to kill a citadel easier than you can kill a pos then you are missing the point of structures altogether. ---
**Author:** ![Warrior\_Xena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/warrior_xena/32/173536_2.png) [@Warrior\_Xena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Warrior_Xena)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2018, 9:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/473 "2018-01-28T09:24:58Z")
A couple questions about the coming changes 1. "To solve these issues, we plan to add a reactivation delay to the Standup warp scrambler and Standup stasis webifier modules that prevents them from being cycled constantly without breaks. The current plan is for them to activate for 30 seconds, and then need to wait one minute before activating again. Combined with these changes they would also be limited to a maximum of one copy each fitted to a structure. The intent would be for these modules to be used strategically to grab tackle long enough for an allied ship to get their own point, or in conjunction with the new AoE webs and bubbles. " The warp scrambler work for 30 seconds and needs one minute to reactivate, the new AOE bubble works for 40 seconds ( with a 20 seconds warm-up ) and needs another minute to reactivate. Does this mean that a structure only has 70 seconds to destroy (one) ship before that ship warps away no matter what ? How will this help in the most likely event that a structure is attacked by a blob of ships from 100km away ? The standup missiles alone need 20 seconds to travel that far. Forget the blob, what would be the chance of a structure against a single BS accompanied by a pair of logistics ? 1. “The largest change to modules in this release will be the addition of new T2 Standup modules. These will provide upgraded functionality to all the major combat modules for Upwell structures and introduce numerous new fitting options. Entirely new module categories will also be brought to Upwell structures, including capacitor power relays, capacitor batteries, armor reinforcers.” Will these modules be available on sisi before release ? Any plans to convert the existing POS modules to standup modules with similar functions ? ---
**Author:** ![Warrior\_Xena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/warrior_xena/32/173536_2.png) [@Warrior\_Xena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Warrior_Xena)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2018, 9:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/474 "2018-01-28T09:46:28Z")
A pos can protect itself against a pretty good fleet. ---
**Author:** ![Anton\_Kring](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anton_kring/32/67410_2.png) [@Anton\_Kring](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anton_Kring)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2018, 11:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/475 "2018-01-28T11:03:27Z")
Great job CCP. Lots of change. I like this. ---
**Author:** ![Wander\_Prian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wander_prian/32/394208_2.png) [@Wander\_Prian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wander_Prian)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2018, 11:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/476 "2018-01-28T11:23:17Z")
Until you defang it, which you cannot do to upwell structures. ---
**Author:** ![CCP\_Fozzie](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ccp_fozzie/32/476703_2.png) [@CCP\_Fozzie](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/CCP_Fozzie)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2018, 4:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/477 "2018-01-28T16:14:55Z")
Hello again everyone! Thanks again for the continued discussion. I’ve finally caught up with the new posts in this thread and today I’m able to share with you all a few changes to the the plan that we’re making based on your feedback so far. - **We’re removing the Standup GTFO from the plan.** We completely agree with the concerns raised about this module in high-load situations and since we haven’t been seeing much excitement or interest in using it in lower load fight either we’ve decided to simply drop it from the plan. - **We’re removing the 5 minute fitting period from the plan as well.** We won’t rule out potentially re-adding it in the future if the meta has changed enough due to other changes that it becomes necessary or helpful, but we’re happy to leave it out of the initial release and see how things go. - **Doubling the final “last stand” hull repair timers for all Upwell Structures to 30m.** This provides more time for attackers to get into position or to reposition, and should slightly mitigate some of the extra challenges in high-load fights. This doubling would not impact the initial deployment hull repair timers which would stay at 15m. We are investigating options around dilating repair timers, but we can’t make any promises in that direction as there are technical concerns that haven’t been fully estimated. Thanks again for the feedback and keep it coming! ---
**Author:** ![Capqu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/capqu/32/257465_2.png) [@Capqu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Capqu)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2018, 4:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/478 "2018-01-28T16:30:30Z")
Nice 🌞 ---
**Author:** ![Kalaratiri](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kalaratiri/32/477189_2.png) [@Kalaratiri](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kalaratiri)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2018, 4:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/479 "2018-01-28T16:31:12Z")
Solid changes 👍 ---
**Author:** ![Thead\_Enco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/thead_enco/32/48497_2.png) [@Thead\_Enco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Thead_Enco)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2018, 4:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/480 "2018-01-28T16:31:32Z")
How about instead of “magical wizard repair timers” and damage caps people actually undock to rep their structures like with Dominion mechanics? ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Mittani](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/le_mittani/32/20483_2.png) [@Le\_Mittani](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Le_Mittani)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2018, 4:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/481 "2018-01-28T16:31:56Z")
Thanks for listening, all of these are good ideas. ---
**Author:** ![Svara\_Eir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/svara_eir/32/51617_2.png) [@Svara\_Eir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Svara_Eir)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2018, 4:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/482 "2018-01-28T16:33:13Z")
based, thank you for advocating ---
**Author:** ![lij\_Kurvora](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lij_kurvora/32/45791_2.png) [@lij\_Kurvora](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/lij_Kurvora)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2018, 4:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/483 "2018-01-28T16:35:20Z")
haha citadel genocide best day of my life ---
**Author:** ![Thead\_Enco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/thead_enco/32/48497_2.png) [@Thead\_Enco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Thead_Enco)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2018, 4:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/484 "2018-01-28T16:38:08Z")
“Doubling the final “last stand” hull repair timers for all Upwell Structures to 30m. This provides more time for attackers to get into position or to reposition, and should slightly mitigate some of the extra challenges in high-load fights. This doubling would not impact the initial deployment hull repair timers which would stay at 15m. We are investigating options around dilating repair timers, but we can’t make any promises in that direction as there are technical concerns that haven’t been fully estimated.” This does nothing at 10% tidi when your fighter tubes are taking 2 hrs to reload up after the last 3 squadrons were destroyed. ---
**Author:** ![Evelgrivion](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/evelgrivion/32/207760_2.png) [@Evelgrivion](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Evelgrivion)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2018, 4:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/485 "2018-01-28T16:45:59Z")
> This does nothing at 10% tidi when your fighter tubes are taking 2 hrs to reload up after the last 3 squadrons were destroyed. That’s life in extremely degraded server conditions. The only choices you have there are whether or not you show up, and what you choose to show up in. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885.md?page=23) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885.md?page=25)