# Dev blog: Upwell 2.0 - Structures Changes Coming On February 13th! **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** official, devblog\ **Created:** [January 18, 2018, 5:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885 "2018-01-18T17:34:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![Kalani\_the\_Dealer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kalani_the_dealer/32/51797_2.png) [@Kalani\_the\_Dealer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kalani_the_Dealer)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 5:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/548 "2018-01-29T17:29:04Z")
“I shouldn’t have to do this” dude… go outside. You’re right. You put this pressure on yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Agfro\_Er](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/agfro_er/32/196685_2.png) [@Agfro\_Er](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Agfro_Er)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 5:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/549 "2018-01-29T17:56:03Z")
It seems that with the new 24/7 vulnerability medium and large structures no longer have any perks for small groups. Before 2.0 small groups with smaller structures would have the benefit of shorter vulnerability windows. It would be nice to see some type of perk for the smaller groups / structures. Maybe consider having medium structures keep the 15min repair window and make large structures have a 30min armor/structure repair timer and XL structures have a 1 hour repair timer. Or maybe for all the small corps out there, let the CEO designate one structure per corp as their home base to receive some type of defense bonus. Will reprocessing structures in worm hole and 0.5 space have their rigs unattached so corps can reposition them for moon mining? ---
**Author:** ![Kalani\_the\_Dealer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kalani_the_dealer/32/51797_2.png) [@Kalani\_the\_Dealer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kalani_the_Dealer)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 6:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/550 "2018-01-29T18:24:09Z")
Wow… Hard to imagine how you handle the tough stuff in life with that kind of attitude mate. GTFO module never should have existed - your little sand castle should not exist if you can’t defend it for a pitiful handful of hours - your cries are delicious. Oh… and you’re welcome, heathen. That advice was free. ---
**Author:** ![Onslaughtor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/onslaughtor/32/298273_2.png) [@Onslaughtor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Onslaughtor)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 7:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/551 "2018-01-29T19:20:56Z")
So from pretty much everything I have read up till this point puts the real problem at being too much anti capital damage from the structure itself. @CCP_Fozzie could we instead of scraping fun and useful things, just change the dps and neuts for Anti cap weapons down so that a Astrohus cant beat a dread by itself? ---
**Author:** ![Supreme\_Raholan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/supreme_raholan/32/139419_2.png) [@Supreme\_Raholan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Supreme_Raholan)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 7:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/552 "2018-01-29T19:30:00Z")
Check this guys maybe someone can answer me 😉 ttps://forums.eveonline.com/t/singularity-server-moon-mining-on-high-sec-rigs/54114 ---
**Author:** ![Zoltan\_Lazar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zoltan_lazar/32/46685_2.png) [@Zoltan\_Lazar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zoltan_Lazar)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 7:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/553 "2018-01-29T19:31:15Z")
It’s currently possible for the defender alone to bring enough people to cause massive tidi. You can’t simply choose to not have tidi. The 5 minute fitting window only benefits attackers. It would have made anchoring a forward staging citadel far too easy. It’s hard enough to defend when the enemy has to cyno in, much less if they can just undock. GTFO module was stupid overpowered and doesn’t work well with the piloting mechanics present in game. The timer changes make things easier to understand and give actual choices for the attacker and defender. It doesn’t really change much in the attacker/defender balance but is a slight benefit to smaller groups. The new T2 weapons and standup fighters are a benefit to the defender. Low power mode benefits people clearing AFK/abandoned citadels, which doesn’t really count. And people with spies. So tell me, what exactly does this patch do wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 7:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/554 "2018-01-29T19:33:01Z")
> [@Lantean](#): > > do me a favour and just unanchor all my structures for me and take them at this rate. You’re in an NPC Corp. You have none already, so it’s all good. However, what you are complaining about isn’t the history that has brought about the changes to structures. They’ve been broken since they were introduced, in a way that discouraged conflict. So this balance pass does favour attackers, simply because the original design favoured defenders too much. It’s nothing about a single keepstar. But the GTFO and the 5 minute fitting window never existed, so nothing material is lost by not introducing them now. Even without them before, Upwell structures have been spammed in many places. That’s not going to change. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Deveron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_deveron/32/245870_2.png) [@Max\_Deveron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Deveron)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 8:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/555 "2018-01-29T20:29:56Z")
Maybe some of us are talking about Highsec dumbass. There is no cyno in highsec, And t2 weapons wont matter much, the GTFO could of added something finally useful to Highsec structures. Some of us dont care about nullsec or its problems. Since you guys cant learn to do anything but Blob warfare, why dont you HTFU and try some different tactics to includ IDK, maybe actually spending the attrition to do something useful instead of whining like a freaking carebear. ---
**Author:** ![Zoltan\_Lazar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zoltan_lazar/32/46685_2.png) [@Zoltan\_Lazar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zoltan_Lazar)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 8:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/556 "2018-01-29T20:55:21Z")
If you’re going to try to bait be a little less obvious. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Deveron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_deveron/32/245870_2.png) [@Max\_Deveron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Deveron)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 9:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/557 "2018-01-29T21:09:01Z")
not baiting I call a spade when i see a spade ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_CaaaveMaaann](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/captain_caaavemaaann/32/51833_2.png) [@Captain\_CaaaveMaaann](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Captain_CaaaveMaaann)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 9:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/558 "2018-01-29T21:27:47Z")
+1 vote for re-adding the 5 minute fitting timer. I would like to see Citadel’s go down swinging. ---
**Author:** ![Luigi\_mon-de-sound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/luigi_mon-de-sound/32/422750_2.png) [@Luigi\_mon-de-sound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Luigi_mon-de-sound)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 11:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/559 "2018-01-29T23:48:57Z")
+1 to the GTFO mod as well, it benefits both high and W-SPACE. Nothing is more cancerous than 5-6 basiis tanking like a Titan. ---
**Author:** ![Petrified](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/petrified/32/243936_2.png) [@Petrified](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Petrified)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 12:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/560 "2018-01-30T00:45:55Z")
@CCP_Fozzie > [@CCP\_Fozzie](#): > > We’re removing the Standup GTFO from the plan… > > We’re removing the 5 minute fitting period from the plan as well… > > Doubling the final “last stand” hull repair timers for all Upwell Structures to 30m… Well that is disappointing. Not many of the upcoming structure fights will be in high load TiDi situations. I know a number of people were looking forward to using the GTFO on Large and XL structures to manipulate the field of battle while the fitting timer at least helped make the structure not completely useless in the initial vulnerability. Please reconsider keeping those elements as again: not everyone fighting at a Structure is going to number in the thousands let alone hundreds. Also, quite important: please introduce the BPOs for the new structure fighters now, prior to release so we can have them ready to swap into the structures immediately. Its a key aspect of a Citadels defense. ---
**Author:** ![Lantean](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lantean/32/267234_2.png) [@Lantean](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lantean)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 1:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/561 "2018-01-30T01:22:36Z")
We have gone over this multiple times Zoltan, these changes favour the attackers dramatically so. And your point only goes to prove that, I’m referring to small groups of people. And as somebody has already referenced up there about a few measely hours to get online, sorry but some people do have lives and work and family’s that don’t have the time to get online in order to defend, whether that be on the first timer or second… but that means we shouldn’t have them right?.. I don’t much care for a five minute window either way, it would have been handy to have, but telling us something is going to be introduced - then some big groups say no… there goes that feature being introduced… same with GTFO. These changes favour people in scenarios where tidi occurs or large alliances are going at it. Some people don’t want to be in blobs and roaming 0.0 and attacking structures day in and day out. Fine if you do want that but small groups want to atleast be able to have a fighting chance. Sure I could just go live in an NPC station… but I actually prefer citadels. I avail of bonuses and benefits of choosing taxes and refine rates etc, bit because I’m giving off about how this benefits all you big alliances it’s considered heresy. And yes @Scipio_Artelius I am in an NPC corp… or rather this character is… congrats for looking. My main is not. Citadels have been spammed, those that are afk will now be ripped down more easily thanks to this new patch, I’m all for that… buy of those changes that are coming… tech 2 weapons… useless. Fighters… ok? Lack dps and speed which will need fixed… how is my athanors or astra defending itself or using those modules while I’m at work? Great in theory but not well thought out… I’m still pushing for automatic firing of weapons and wanting the scram and web mods to stay as they are… this cool down crap is stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Lantean](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lantean/32/267234_2.png) [@Lantean](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lantean)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 1:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/562 "2018-01-30T01:27:45Z")
Why did you reply to my post twice.? If you have been paying attention to this thread at all you would have read all my reasons. Work, family and RL keeping me from playing eve to its fullest… but still wanting to actually play and not login one day to find all my assets in safety and a few loss mails. Your welcome for the tears buddy, dispensing since 2005. Extra salty. ---
**Author:** ![Gene\_Rodderick](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gene_rodderick/32/51918_2.png) [@Gene\_Rodderick](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gene_Rodderick)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 7:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/563 "2018-01-30T07:12:34Z")
I suggest just changing the way the repair timer pauses, and having the mechanics changed to simulate the damage being done as if it were real time. I mean, every weapon and drone has a dps already calculated, just run a quick addition to see if there is enough stuff being shot at the citadel that the repair timer would be paused if the battle were going at real time speed. You can stop adding stuff together once you hit the normal repair pause amount… ---
**Author:** ![Warrior\_Xena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/warrior_xena/32/173536_2.png) [@Warrior\_Xena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Warrior_Xena)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 7:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/564 "2018-01-30T07:34:13Z")
Please review the scrambler/stasis functionality. There was no scrambler/stasis time limit on the corresponding POS modules. The citadels already have really low dps and especially compared to a POS which is way cheaper ( and which is supposed to be replaced by one ). Why do you remove the possibility for a structure to keep a ship in place enough time to have a chance to kill it ? Only because there are a few people whining on this thread about having to bash a citadel for more than 20 minutes ? Citadels were created for, and are claimed to be force multipliers. Can you tell me what is that multiple now ? Because an astrahus owned by a 3 chars corp can be destroyed by a fleet of 5 ships. ---
**Author:** ![Tex\_Bloodhunter](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tex_bloodhunter/32/18992_2.png) [@Tex\_Bloodhunter](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tex_Bloodhunter)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 4:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/566 "2018-01-30T16:07:39Z")
Nice! Please make it happen. Deploying a temporary base, jumping out of your capital ship and using other ships you have brought with you do to stuff is simply a cool thing to do. It’s like going on a camping trip and makes you think about what you want to bring along with you. The preparation and consideration of logistics for that trip is pure entertainment in itsself. ---
**Author:** ![kunoichira](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kunoichira/32/20960_2.png) [@kunoichira](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/kunoichira)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 7:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/567 "2018-01-30T19:47:04Z")
Please review the scrambler/stasis functionality. There was no scrambler/stasis time limit on the corresponding POS modules. The citadels already have really low dps and especially compared to a POS which is way cheaper ( and which is supposed to be replaced by one ). Why do you remove the possibility for a structure to keep a ship in place enough time to have a chance to kill it ? Only because there are a few people whining on this thread about having to bash a citadel for more than 20 minutes ? ---
**Author:** ![TKCANGEL](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tkcangel/32/444986_2.png) [@TKCANGEL](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/TKCANGEL)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 7:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/568 "2018-01-30T19:50:28Z")
Please review the scrambler/stasis functionality. There was no scrambler/stasis time limit on the corresponding POS modules. The citadels already have really low dps and especially compared to a POS which is way cheaper ( and which is supposed to be replaced by one ). Why do you remove the possibility for a structure to keep a ship in place enough time to have a chance to kill it ? Only because there are a few people whining on this thread about having to bash a citadel for more than 20 minutes ? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885.md?page=27) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885.md?page=29)