# Dev blog: Upwell 2.0 - Structures Changes Coming On February 13th! **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** official, devblog\ **Created:** [January 18, 2018, 5:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885 "2018-01-18T17:34:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 33
**Author:** ![Iggy\_Park](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iggy_park/32/424086_2.png) [@Iggy\_Park](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iggy_Park)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2018, 7:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/649 "2018-02-08T19:20:46Z")
> [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](#): > > Wow, WH groups get shafted on the reinforce times hugely, especially since we have no asset safety. Why exactly should our defence be made even more difficult? Another example of CCP pandering to the Mafioso groups in the game i.e CSM. CCP only works to benefit the “destroyers” of the game and not the “builders”. If these structures are being nerfed so much why have them/invest in them in the first place? Why not increase the structure bonuses/rigs benefits while at the same time nerfing the defenses? And here is the kicker, removing the ability to take out rigs after an attack LOL. Might as well say that CSM can make final decisions on how the game works for everyone. Once again CCP disappoints. ---
**Author:** ![Amarisen\_Gream](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/amarisen_gream/32/296747_2.png) [@Amarisen\_Gream](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Amarisen_Gream)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2018, 7:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/650 "2018-02-08T19:55:34Z")
> [@Circumstantial\_Evidence](#): > > CCP has a tough balancing act, between the interests of large groups that always have a fleet running, who may say a temporary point is just fine, and small operators with few resources. Amen. Which makes me wonder if CCP is balancing the wrong/right aspects of the game. ---
**Author:** ![Smart\_Sister](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/smart_sister/32/24553_2.png) [@Smart\_Sister](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Smart_Sister)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2018, 9:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/651 "2018-02-08T21:02:43Z")
AS they dont even bother to reply here, you can imagine how much they actually care. ---
**Author:** ![Dario\_Kaelenter](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dario_kaelenter/32/383143_2.png) [@Dario\_Kaelenter](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dario_Kaelenter)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2018, 12:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/652 "2018-02-09T00:17:05Z")
> [@Basil\_Vulpine](#): > > Structure Fighters : No ability to pre-build replacement fighters means there’s going to be a vulnerability window during which most structures will have no fighters. Can you please retain the ability to use normal fighters with their current stats? Even if it’s just for a month or two of transition that would be really helpful. Ideally these BPOs would’ve been seeded in advance but I appreciate that timescales are short. Yes!! This is a VERY good point as not everyone will be able to go buy new BPOs and build a whole new set of fighters as soon as the patch is launched. This created a Meta-game window where defences are really compromised. Surely it would be possible to simply have a window of a month where exiting and new fighters can be loaded and used to give people time to catch up (not everyone is a professional Eve player that can log in and play Everyday !) Also with the Shield now being able to be attacked 24/7 like the old POS - Least the POS was able to shoot back and occasionally managed to get some kills . Citadels in lo sec and null sec also should present some risk when approaching if you aren’t set to positive standings. That was people would have some risk when approaching to hack or scout. Seems TOTALLY RIDICULOUS in the sense of game lore and technology that these massive structures with huge populations on them (non player) wouldn’t have one person given the ability and responsibility to be able to activates automated defences is a potential target turned up. Maybe not all weapons would work automatically though from the very outset CCP was trying to transition the roles and abilities of POSes tho seems like things have fallen short in ways. Citadels have way fewer defences than a POS did and the invulnerability periods were designed to make up for the loss of automated defences though now of cause you’re also taking that away which really brings back the S\*\*\* Metagame Time Zone war games that were another thing people hated with POSes. Even if this was just another advantage that came with having a full powered citadel that would add more to the game in getting some bang for ya buck when buying a citadel and fitting it (These things cost way more than a POS used to also !!) and adding to the excitement. At least with the present system the times and dates for attacked were clear to everyone and if someone really wanted to attack a structure for strategic or economic reasons then they had to plan in advance and there are fewer issues with having to decide if people needed to schedule real life stuff around a game to save everything they may own! ---
**Author:** ![Dario\_Kaelenter](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dario_kaelenter/32/383143_2.png) [@Dario\_Kaelenter](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dario_Kaelenter)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2018, 1:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/653 "2018-02-09T01:44:52Z")
> [@CCP\_Falcon](#): > > Asset safety is a major part of Upwell structures, but we have heard from many players that it provides a bit too much absolute safety in some circumstances. We are making a few tweaks to the asset safety costs to help address these concerns: > > The formula for calculating asset safety values will now provide a more accurate estimate of the item value, and will be much less likely to value an item at 0isk > A new minimum asset safety recovery cost has been set at 0.5% of item value. This cost will be required to recover items from asset safety even if the recovery takes place in the same solar system > We are currently investigating adding asset safety costs to the killmails for structures so that attackers would be able to clearly see how much damage they inflicted. This will not be ready in time for Upwell 2.0 and we cannot guarantee it at this time, but we are hopeful that it will be possible in the future. On the Update Asset safety is mentioned tho no mention here in tho. 😉 One really great addition would be a notification or mail when a structure that you have stuff in gets attacked. It’s kinda frustrating when things end up in Asset Safety without you even knowing. Unless asset management and checking on things every day or 2 becomes required gameplay 🙄 In cases If I knew a structure I sometimes use was under attack I maybe willing to lend a hand with defences. ---
**Author:** ![Fish\_Hunter](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/fish_hunter/32/248430_2.png) [@Fish\_Hunter](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Fish_Hunter)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2018, 2:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/654 "2018-02-09T02:31:22Z")
This is kind of the crux of the whole system and why asset safety has to remain unless something else gives. There is no notification outside the owning corps members with certain roles that the station is attacked. Unless everyone with stuff in a station gets a notification we need to have asset safety for qol reasons. Its kinda like the clone bays at first it seemed a great deal to put jump clones in citadels , it was a little cheaper and you can switch in station. Then players read the fine print that their clone goes by by if someone just offlines the service, nobody uses clone service other than trusted structures now. ---
**Author:** ![Smart\_Sister](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/smart_sister/32/24553_2.png) [@Smart\_Sister](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Smart_Sister)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2018, 10:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/655 "2018-02-09T22:35:01Z")
CCP ANY CHANCE TO STOP IGNORING US ? ---
**Author:** ![Devon\_Stone](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/devon_stone/32/385010_2.png) [@Devon\_Stone](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Devon_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2018, 11:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/656 "2018-02-09T23:43:39Z")
So nothing to do with the upwell spam? I mean looks like everyone has one even if it’s not used for anything. I might have to put one up so I can be one of the kool kidz. ---
**Author:** ![Katrina\_Harkonnen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/katrina_harkonnen/32/174975_2.png) [@Katrina\_Harkonnen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Katrina_Harkonnen)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 12:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/657 "2018-02-10T12:18:29Z")
“_On patch day existing fighters will need to be upgraded to Standup variants in order to be launched from Upwell structures_.” The minimum I expect is, that the upgrade is done automatically! On patch day the mechanics changes, but I don’t have operational fighters? Sounds extremely unfair. “_Standup Void Guided bombs and their blueprints will be converted automatically to Standup AS Guided bombs and their blueprints_.” I lose what I have invested in? How about changing these to the AOE weapons? Maybe the mechanics was in favor of the defenders, but why do you overreact now, and nerf the defenses to the extreme now? Loosing the ability to effectively tackle the enemy, Corps without massive fleet support can now never get a shot on the attackers. Why not introduce changes incrementally and review their effect for each single step? I do not understand your approach to problem solving. It is like destroying a street and buld from scratch, only because it has some holes. ---
**Author:** ![Smart\_Sister](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/smart_sister/32/24553_2.png) [@Smart\_Sister](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Smart_Sister)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 12:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/658 "2018-02-10T12:52:04Z")
they really dont care. Another example of ccp mocking the content creators. I myself am taking everything out of the w-space where our corp resides and unsubbing accounts until they come back to their senses. ---
**Author:** ![Qualzon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/qualzon/32/264080_2.png) [@Qualzon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Qualzon)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 5:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/659 "2018-02-10T17:22:44Z")
Unfortunately, this is going to be a deal breaker for me. I realize the need to clear out all the space junk that clutters our overview in nearly every system, but for a player like myself, I have a life outside of Eve which only allows me to play 1-2 days per week. Currently, I plan my Eve nights around my wormhole vulnerability windows which allows me to take action should I get attacked. This would now require me to log in nearly every day as well as spend the days I do play hauling in fuel to protect my assets. CCP - I realize you have to make difficult decisions when it comes to balancing the game, but part-time players pay just as much per month as everyday players do. Unless you’re willing to invest in this game full-time your stuck running missions for peanuts, mining which gets old or scanning out WH’s or low sec for the occasional noob or AFKer. Good luck on your future patches, Eve’s a great game, unfortunately, its changed in a direction I can no longer enjoy. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 5:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/660 "2018-02-10T17:48:32Z")
> [@Katrina\_Harkonnen](#): > > “Standup Void Guided bombs and their blueprints will be converted automatically to Standup AS Guided bombs and their blueprints.” > > I lose what I have invested in? How about changing these to the AOE weapons? You are proposing changing AMMO to a weapon. It’s not comparable hence why they are changing to different Ammo. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 5:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/661 "2018-02-10T17:49:20Z")
> [@Qualzon](#): > > Unfortunately, this is going to be a deal breaker for me. I realize the need to clear out all the space junk that clutters our overview in nearly every system, but for a player like myself, I have a life outside of Eve which only allows me to play 1-2 days per week. Currently, I plan my Eve nights around my wormhole vulnerability windows which allows me to take action should I get attacked. This would now require me to log in nearly every day as well as spend the days I do play hauling in fuel to protect my assets. No it doesn’t. You can log in to your once a week hull timer and defend your structure then. Yes it’s not ideal, but there is only one time a week someone can destroy your structure. ---
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 6:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/662 "2018-02-10T18:48:48Z")
Not in wormholes. But CCP made it clear multiple times, join a corp or get out - as statistics show that solo players won’t stay anyway, there is no need to support this play style. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 6:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/663 "2018-02-10T18:51:33Z")
> [@Tipa\_Riot](#): > > Not in wormholes. Even in wormholes the Hull timer is always at your preferred time, +/- the 2 hours obviously. Worrmholes just have less time between the first timer and the last than anywhere else, but it doesn’t override the last timer. ---
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 6:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/664 "2018-02-10T18:52:07Z")
Sure, but you can have multiple finals per week. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 6:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/665 "2018-02-10T18:53:09Z")
> [@Tipa\_Riot](#): > > Sure, but you can have multiple finals per week. Not with the new system you can’t. There is a single time/day you pick now. There is no more ‘Pick 6 hours spread over however you split it’. It’s pick a time & day, your hull timer will always be within 2 hours of that exact time & day. ---
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 6:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/666 "2018-02-10T18:58:52Z")
You are right, I was too focused on the minimum days between armor and hull, it’s still only one day and time per week. ---
**Author:** ![Smart\_Sister](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/smart_sister/32/24553_2.png) [@Smart\_Sister](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Smart_Sister)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 7:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/667 "2018-02-10T19:30:28Z")
It makes no difference if you dont have a fleet to protect your citadel. The defenses now makes it impossible for a corp of 3-4 players to protect it even against a small roaming gang that would not have had a chance against a POS. ---
**Author:** ![Sgt\_Ocker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sgt_ocker/32/270881_2.png) [@Sgt\_Ocker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sgt_Ocker)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 9:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/668 "2018-02-10T21:27:39Z")
Enjoy your Eve retirement. I don’t want your stuff but be sure NOT to put it in an upwell structure - The mechanics favour it not being there when/if you return to the game. NB; CCP isn’t changing its development plan - Ask for feedback then ignore everything, has been CCP’s way of doing things for way too long to change it now. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885.md?page=32) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885.md?page=34)