# Dev blog: Upwell 2.0 - Structures Changes Coming On February 13th! **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** official, devblog\ **Created:** [January 18, 2018, 5:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885 "2018-01-18T17:34:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 36
**Author:** ![Major\_Laurentius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/major_laurentius/32/31368_2.png) [@Major\_Laurentius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Major_Laurentius)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 12:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/710 "2018-02-14T12:32:55Z")
After the update, you STILL need minimum fighter skills to launch fighters from Citadels. This is a confirmed bug that CCP have been working on fixing for more than a year! Any updates on how this bugfix is coming along? ---
**Author:** ![CCP\_Lebowski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ccp_lebowski/32/191402_2.png) [@CCP\_Lebowski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/CCP_Lebowski)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 5:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/711 "2018-02-14T17:14:27Z")
> [@Major\_Laurentius](#): > > After the update, you STILL need minimum fighter skills to launch fighters from Citadels. This is a confirmed bug that CCP have been working on fixing for more than a year! > > Any updates on how this bugfix is coming along? Are you sure about that? From our records, this issue was fixed in 2016 and I cannot reproduce this on the current TQ build. If this is still occurring for you please submit a bug report from in game and chuck me the ID, I’m more than happy to investigate further ---
**Author:** ![Major\_Laurentius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/major_laurentius/32/31368_2.png) [@Major\_Laurentius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Major_Laurentius)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 8:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/712 "2018-02-14T20:04:49Z")
I cant launch fighters presently, but if you fixed that bug, the issue is probably regular fighters in a structure which now requires special structure fighters. So, instead of actually converting allready loaded fighters to structure fighters (which I now see you haven’t done) so structures can defend themselves in the interim period, you leave 1000s of structures basically defenseless for days/weeks until industry can catch up. 40 hours after patch, there are still NO fighters sold in Amarr, Rens and Dodixie, and only a handful in Jita. Well played. ---
**Author:** ![Sgt\_Ocker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sgt_ocker/32/270881_2.png) [@Sgt\_Ocker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sgt_Ocker)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 8:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/713 "2018-02-14T20:52:36Z")
CCP Lebowski is there any way you can turn 'Structures" into “structures” for overview purposes - Having them identified as ships really messes with overview settings. Either need the way structures show up fixed or at least the ability to remove the colour coding so they don’t screw with overview settings… A simple little check box (funnily enough like everything else in the overview has) would suffice. ---
**Author:** ![Double\_Blade](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/double_blade/32/151353_2.png) [@Double\_Blade](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Double_Blade)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 12:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/714 "2018-02-15T00:54:10Z")
The shields could stay, just remove a reinforcement cycle. If the structure is in low power mode, then the attackers can take down shields and armor in one battle before the first reinforcement timer begins. ---
**Author:** ![Dolly\_Varden](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dolly_varden/32/174150_2.png) [@Dolly\_Varden](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dolly_Varden)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 12:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/715 "2018-02-15T00:59:15Z")
That’s what happens now. Shoot the shields, if its in low power mode as soon as you scratch armor it hits hull reinforcement. It acts like the armor HP=0 for low power mode. ---
**Author:** ![Double\_Blade](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/double_blade/32/151353_2.png) [@Double\_Blade](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Double_Blade)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 1:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/716 "2018-02-15T01:00:56Z")
Right, but what I’m saying is that if it’s in low power mode, don’t have a reinforcement timer until after shields and armor are both gone. It makes no logical sense for armor to simply go away if the structure is in low power mode. ---
**Author:** ![Dolly\_Varden](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dolly_varden/32/174150_2.png) [@Dolly\_Varden](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dolly_Varden)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 1:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/717 "2018-02-15T01:03:00Z")
Yes you’re right it’d make more logical sense if shield HP was 0 for low power mode. ---
**Author:** ![Circumstantial\_Evidence](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/circumstantial_evidence/32/399551_2.png) [@Circumstantial\_Evidence](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Circumstantial_Evidence)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 1:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/718 "2018-02-15T01:47:06Z")
The armor / shield skip question was answered far above: technical problems prevent shield 0 in low power mode. > [@CCP\_Fozzie](#): > > > [@Octanian:](#): > > > > Just out of curiosity was there a reason for the decision to have it be armor that was skipped instead of shield already being depleted? > > Primarily to keep the state flow between reinforcements sane. It gets pretty messy if you try to skip shield and need to consider a service module coming online after the structure has taken some damage. ---
**Author:** ![Yoshi\_Kanfar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yoshi_kanfar/32/50549_2.png) [@Yoshi\_Kanfar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Yoshi_Kanfar)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 12:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/719 "2018-02-15T12:48:32Z")
> [@Dolly\_Varden](#): > > Yes you’re right it’d make more logical sense if shield HP was 0 for low power mode. Lore-wise, it makes perfect sense. Shields are always there for defence against things like micro-meteorites, but their capabilities are enhanced in high power mode. Armour is _not_ simple lumps of metal, but is energised plate – effective when the structure is fuelled, all but useless when not. ---
**Author:** ![Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/corraidhin_farsaidh/32/10994_2.png) [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Corraidhin_Farsaidh)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 1:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/720 "2018-02-15T13:16:40Z")
A real world test of this kind of armour was run a while back by BAe. They had two plates with an air gap containing a high charge (like a capacitor). A projectile would pierce the outer layer and then be vaporized by the energy discharge. I always imagined EvE armour to be a similar but much more advanced concept (self reforminf hyperalloy foams instead of plates etc) ---
**Author:** ![Smart\_Sister](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/smart_sister/32/24553_2.png) [@Smart\_Sister](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Smart_Sister)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 10:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/721 "2018-02-17T22:23:28Z")
> **[Fortizar | Corleone Industries | Killmail](https://zkillboard.com/kill/68104923/)** > > (Corleone Industries) lost their Fortizar in J172840 (E-R00028). Final Blow by Grewert Lenneluc (Raiders of the Void) flying in a Loki. Total Value: 12,042,321,804.20 ISK One fortizar, plus some defense fleet, could not destroy even one of the subcaps attacking it. Pretty pathetic, this citadel defense, wouldnt you say ? ---
**Author:** ![Katrina\_Harkonnen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/katrina_harkonnen/32/174975_2.png) [@Katrina\_Harkonnen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Katrina_Harkonnen)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2018, 10:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/722 "2018-02-18T10:07:40Z")
I already raised that issue before patch day. CCP did this on purpose. If you see, how many new and expensive BPOs they created (structure fighters, burst projectors), all this seems to have only one purpose: drain cash / fight inflation. Or did we see any reimbursement for POS BPOs yet? ---
**Author:** ![Katrina\_Harkonnen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/katrina_harkonnen/32/174975_2.png) [@Katrina\_Harkonnen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Katrina_Harkonnen)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2018, 10:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/723 "2018-02-18T10:23:24Z")
You have upgraded the fighters a little bit. But on patch day you have rendered everyone defenseless, not upgrading at least the fighters in bay to the new standup version. And you nerfed the warp scramblers to a state, where they are useless. Why could you not implement one change after the other and observe the effect first, before going on? > [@CCP\_Lebowski](#): > > the addition of Tech II modules, specifically the Tech II Ballistic Control Units, will allow you to significantly increase the single target damage/second against subcapital ships. While their combat capability is of course getting balanced downwards in other ways Your argumentation is like this: “we took away existing functionality. But here is new one, you just have to pay again.” This is just bad development work and a bad way to deal with your customers. I can just tell you, that I angry with you to a point, where I really want to leave the game (no, you can’t have my stuff). ---
**Author:** ![Stitch\_Kaneland](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stitch_kaneland/32/380745_2.png) [@Stitch\_Kaneland](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Stitch_Kaneland)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 1:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/724 "2018-02-19T13:48:28Z")
Depends on your defense fleet and how those lokis were fit. If they were AB fit and you didnt have sufficient tackle/application so they took full damage, then thats on you. Edit: [https://zkillboard.com/kill/68099048/](https://zkillboard.com/kill/68099048/) Thats why you werent applying damage, they are using 100mn AB which is a hard counter to missiles/bombs. This wasnt a case where your damage was nerfed to nothing, but the enemy fleet brought a superior doctrine to counter your missiles/bombs, and your defense fleet was not equipped to handle it. You would need long webs and paints to apply damage to that fleet. Or in the case of the KM, a whole lotta caps. ---
**Author:** ![Scaugh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scaugh/32/25051_2.png) [@Scaugh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scaugh)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 11:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/725 "2018-02-22T11:42:50Z")
All structures should be able to fit Lazzzzzoooooors. This so they can light up the sky. ---
**Author:** ![nimon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nimon/32/53460_2.png) [@nimon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/nimon)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 3:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/726 "2018-02-23T03:19:40Z")
is there still no exact Information about tha HAC balancing and when it comes ? When yes can you give me a Link ? ---
**Author:** ![Darwien\_Deninard](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/darwien_deninard/32/316043_2.png) [@Darwien\_Deninard](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Darwien_Deninard)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 11:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/727 "2018-02-23T11:26:52Z")
So somewhere along the line I missed that after nerfing the T1 launchers and making sure that medium structures (refinery/eng. with no fighters) cannot reasonably fit T2; large and XL structures received (I believe it is new) a rate of fire bonus. Clean up project for Raitarus and Athanors. ---
**Author:** ![Nakota\_Joe\_Nakota](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nakota_joe_nakota/32/271922_2.png) [@Nakota\_Joe\_Nakota](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nakota_Joe_Nakota)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 3:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/728 "2018-02-23T15:26:17Z")
both of my citadels were in vulnerability mode for a week before i decided to take them down. i set the reinforcement timer and still the structures were vulnerable. at least now i can drop off a subbed account that was minding the store now. ccp just nerfed citdels for the small corps…even if you have services which i did. ---
**Author:** ![Nakota\_Joe\_Nakota](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nakota_joe_nakota/32/271922_2.png) [@Nakota\_Joe\_Nakota](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nakota_Joe_Nakota)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 3:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/729 "2018-02-23T15:35:50Z")
citadels were supposed to replace pos’s. in fact until i went to nullsec, i thought they had done away with all pos’s in one of the last updates. so why keep a citadel up and running with services and paying for 24/7 fuel for months at a time when you can run a small pos at a fraction of the cost and have it defend itself automatically? so far as moon mining in hisec or anywhere else i gotta say this is akin to watching a pack of monkeys try to have sex with a football. the old system ran reactions as it happened and you just had to pick it up. now, its a complex hodgepodge of service slots, skills and fuel blocks. btw, what can you moon mine with an athanor? only has 3 service slots. so much for the reprocessing end of it…lol [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885.md?page=35) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885.md?page=37)