# Dev blog: Upwell 2.0 - Structures Changes Coming On February 13th! **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** official, devblog\ **Created:** [January 18, 2018, 5:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885 "2018-01-18T17:34:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Octanian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/octanian/32/400680_2.png) [@Octanian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Octanian)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 7:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/63 "2018-01-18T19:59:39Z")
Just out of curiosity was there a reason for the decision to have it be armor that was skipped instead of shield already being depleted? ---
**Author:** ![Quelza](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/quelza/32/36089_2.png) [@Quelza](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Quelza)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 8:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/64 "2018-01-18T20:02:20Z")
Right? ---
**Author:** ![Commanche](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/commanche/32/25160_2.png) [@Commanche](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Commanche)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 8:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/65 "2018-01-18T20:15:31Z")
What about the Repairtimers in Tidi, is this gonna be fixed? ---
**Author:** ![Capqu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/capqu/32/257465_2.png) [@Capqu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Capqu)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 8:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/66 "2018-01-18T20:25:39Z")
Oh I forgot to mention in my original post, but it’s obviously absurd that the timers continue to auto-repair in TiDi. In the past it wasn’t as much of an issue since both the aggressors and the defenders had to move around and engage within it, but since citadels auto repair rather than requiring the defenders to actively repair, only attackers feel any kind of strategic strain due to TiDi. TiDi is extremely defender favoured to the point where defenders actively WANT TiDi, and if the timer was affected by it it would go back to being a neutral but necessary nuisance. ---
**Author:** ![Zapp\_McDouche](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zapp_mcdouche/32/290332_2.png) [@Zapp\_McDouche](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zapp_McDouche)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 8:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/67 "2018-01-18T20:29:34Z")
These changes are big! One thing I would wish is if wh space citadels could auto attack like pos guns can while in shield timer. Since you are making the structures even more difficult to save when nerfing the timers. And can you add ice to wh space to give it a difference from hisec? ---
**Author:** ![CCP\_Habakuk](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ccp_habakuk/32/471107_2.png) [@CCP\_Habakuk](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/CCP_Habakuk)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 8:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/68 "2018-01-18T20:37:27Z")
> [@Rosewalker](#): > > Is hacking a structure in high sec to get the timer information considered an aggressive act? If so, will the hacker get a suspect flag or CONCORDed? And will the flag occur at the start of the hack, or upon completion of the hack? Currently it does not result in a suspect flag, but I personally like the idea. I’ll discuss it with the team. CONCORDed would be a bit too harsh in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![TrouserDeagle](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/trouserdeagle/32/420239_2.png) [@TrouserDeagle](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/TrouserDeagle)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 8:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/69 "2018-01-18T20:58:37Z")
I suggest removing structure tackle, and refocus citadel weapons around weaker area effect weapons to support a fleet rather than targeted ‘gg ez’ anti-fun modules like ecm and neut. I hope you guys have considered the ‘use case’ of day to day solo/small gang shenanigans and not just massive reddit blob wars ---
**Author:** ![Quelza](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/quelza/32/36089_2.png) [@Quelza](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Quelza)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 9:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/70 "2018-01-18T21:04:30Z")
Given the outrage spewing from reddit at the moment I’m not sure they’ve considered massive blob wars all that much either. ---
**Author:** ![Querns](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/querns/32/157529_2.png) [@Querns](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Querns)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 9:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/71 "2018-01-18T21:16:23Z")
> [@Quelza](#): > > Given the outrage spewing from reddit at the moment I’m not sure they’ve considered massive blob wars all that much either. Fortunately, reddit can largely be ignored. They represent less a rational group opinion and more a panicked herd of sub-sentient cattle. ---
**Author:** ![Quelza](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/quelza/32/36089_2.png) [@Quelza](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Quelza)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 9:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/72 "2018-01-18T21:17:06Z")
That is a fair point. ---
**Author:** ![FloppieTheBanjoClown](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/floppiethebanjoclown/32/227425_2.png) [@FloppieTheBanjoClown](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/FloppieTheBanjoClown)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 9:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/73 "2018-01-18T21:19:24Z")
Thus ends the ability to quickly root out abandoned structures from an area by movine from one to the next in a single night. Now you have to invest weeks of effort into killing a half-dozen structures if you can’t assemble six simultaneous fleets. This is a terrible design. ---
**Author:** ![FloppieTheBanjoClown](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/floppiethebanjoclown/32/227425_2.png) [@FloppieTheBanjoClown](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/FloppieTheBanjoClown)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 9:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/74 "2018-01-18T21:22:36Z")
I’d suggest moving structure scram to disruptor rather than remove it entirely, and then remove structure webs. It would allow you to burn out of structure range reasonably quickly but allows you to get pointed if you stay on grid long enough to get locked. That puts the pressure on the defender to get combat ships to you faster. ---
**Author:** ![Bananaboat\_Blues](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bananaboat_blues/32/254430_2.png) [@Bananaboat\_Blues](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bananaboat_Blues)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 9:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/75 "2018-01-18T21:30:37Z")
I understand that CCP can be hesitant to just remove Asset safety (which in my personal opinion is what should happen). But how is a 0.5% increase in asset safety cost really gonna make an impact on the game? Would it not be more feasible to add a % drop or atleast a chance of a % drop of the “loot” inside?. Why have you elected to completely remove the thing eve had going over all other MMO’s, the fact that lost means something? I understand the need from your side that you needed to push players into citadels since Stations “soon tm” will be removed or converted to Fortizars, but since this change is so far out in the future, the game is getting stalled more & more since there is no “reason” to ill citadels anywhere but in Wormhole space for profit. And Yes I know there is currently a keepstar RF’d & ■■■■ in cloud ring, but thats nothing compared to how many posses getting demolished on a daily basis when they were the the main structure used for invasions / moons etc. ---
**Author:** ![Petrified](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/petrified/32/243936_2.png) [@Petrified](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Petrified)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 9:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/76 "2018-01-18T21:30:46Z")
> [@CCP\_Fozzie](#): > > So you’re saying that this Low Power Mode is visible to all without scanning? > > Yup low power mode shows up to everyone with no hacking needed. Really should, in the very least, require a target lock. After all, it is not as if Structures will be untargetable now. Oh, and: are there any plans to bring a structure more robust than a mobile depot, can fit an unbonused service, maybe one or two modules, but most importantly can be anchored and unanchored in less than a few hours to support day trips in WHs and act as temporary bases of operation in other areas of space? ---
**Author:** ![Petrified](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/petrified/32/243936_2.png) [@Petrified](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Petrified)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 9:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/77 "2018-01-18T21:40:58Z")
> [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > Purely because I think it would be more “immersive”, I would suggest that a low power structure simply not have shields. The first cycle just chews into armor. “We’re running on low power, our armor is… gone?” doesn’t make a lot of sense. “We’re running on low power, shields are off” makes a lot more sense. Agreed: armor simply vanishing makes little sense. It would make better sense if shields simply were non-existent on low powered Citadels. Or at least a token number of shield hitpoints (want to keep out solar radiation et al) and just skip straight to armor once you blow out what little there was of the shields. ---
**Author:** ![Petrified](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/petrified/32/243936_2.png) [@Petrified](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Petrified)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 9:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/78 "2018-01-18T21:48:34Z")
> [@Orontes\_Ovasi](#): > > outposts did not have AOE weapons, tether, or ewar. One could counter-argue that outposts also could not be destroyed as well. So additional defensive mechanisms are required. ---
**Author:** ![Old\_Pervert](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/old_pervert/32/149708_2.png) [@Old\_Pervert](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Old_Pervert)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 9:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/79 "2018-01-18T21:49:42Z")
> [@Orontes\_Ovasi](#): > > ships don’t have damage caps, lmao And yet, even in “low power mode” they maintain the same damage cap/resistances for hull that they would not maintain for armor. Metal is metal, energized is energized. It makes much more sense that “shield take a lot of power”, and “armor/hull are passive”. Reactive armor is a thing even today. It makes perfect sense that a damage cap for the armor/hull can be passive. ---
**Author:** ![Black\_Pedro](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/black_pedro/32/257285_2.png) [@Black\_Pedro](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Black_Pedro)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 10:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/80 "2018-01-18T22:31:59Z")
I see no mention of any mechanic to allow structure owners to defend their moon rock field in a 0.5 system from the anonymous NPC corp Skiff/Procurers that will be able to take the spawned ore with no risk. Are you concerned there is no reasonable method to defend the field or enforce any claim to the ore in highsec? ---
**Author:** ![Amra\_Ni-Yesta](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/amra_ni-yesta/32/420140_2.png) [@Amra\_Ni-Yesta](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Amra_Ni-Yesta)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 10:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/81 "2018-01-18T22:41:36Z")
I got a question. How will be the decomission in the futur ? How to make a decomission with a syteme like this, it is just impossible. ---
**Author:** ![Rowells](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rowells/32/141343_2.png) [@Rowells](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rowells)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 10:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885/82 "2018-01-18T22:47:10Z")
> [@Bananaboat\_Blues](#): > > But how is a 0.5% increase in asset safety cost really gonna make an impact on the game? Probably not too significantly, but it’s also adding a cost to what was otherwise a free and safe (albeit slow) way to transport assets between structures in the same system. > [@Bananaboat\_Blues](#): > > Why have you elected to completely remove the thing eve had going over all other MMO’s, the fact that lost means something? Complete removal isn’t entirely accurate. There are plenty of ways some can lose everything they own, but there were almost always limitations or procedures necessary to make it a real 100% loss that isn’t just a long way of doing what “Trash Item” does. POSes has simple volume limits, NOC structures are already indestructible, and while you may lose docking rights to an outpost, there were always methods to recover those assets in some fashion. Difficulty varied, but firesales have always been a thing and some players do manage to gain access again. Structures are the first example of a location you can live out of that has the strengths of a station/outpost, combined with some of the features and downsides of a POS. This is arguably new territory, since we’re so used to everything that can be destroyed having full loot drops. The fact is, for all of EVE’s history the vast majority of things were made or stored in stations. It would be a false assumption to think that POSes represented how Eve has been played. In fact, we haven’t seen players put so much in assets inside of destructible structures, which includes the dramatic shift of risking manufacturing materials in ECs, in this game’s history. Even with asset safety, there has never been a time where more items/materials are at risk of loss. You simply couldn’t fit as much isk inside of a POS, even if your goal was to make a loot piñata. Just the nature of infinite hangar space. Loss has always meant something, but that didn’t always mean there was an item being deleted off of one of CCP’s servers. > [@Bananaboat\_Blues](#): > > the game is getting stalled more & more since there is no “reason” to ill citadels anywhere but in Wormhole space for profit That last part is isn’t really true either. Like I said earlier, so much of EVE’s industry has swapped over to structures. There is an absolute gold mine of loot waiting for anyone who knows how to read an industry index on a map. It may not be as straight forward as getting the loot inside someone’s personal hangar, but the amount of potential loot out there has only grown. And with the proposed addition of T2 modules into citadels, even the basic drops of a normal staging structure could only go higher. With that aside, you must also consider that POSes were the only true method to drop loot before. Yet people still conquered stations and flipped outposts. Even the shitty caldari ones. Not all actions in eve are driven by pure profit. Sometimes there is potential gain to be had by simply ensuring someone else doesn’t make a profit or have an advantage. > [@Bananaboat\_Blues](#): > > but thats nothing compared to how many posses getting demolished on a daily basis when they were the the main structure used for invasions / moons etc. I can’t find any stats to back that up really. You could very well be true. However, part of that may just be how bad the mechanics behind killing structures has been. But there is also potential for that to be reversed as well. Maybe someone could look it up with some zkill datamining, but as structures have replaced the functionality of POSes and stations, people have been adopting them more and more. I’m certain one day we will (or already have) surpassed the point where the value of structures being destroyed, manufacturing lost, and asset fees paid, is higher than POSes ever were. Asset destruction and isk loss is only going to increase as structures come to fully replace POSes/outposts. It’ll just be a matter of getting the mechanics (like those addressed in this blog, done well enough to keep the fires of destruction burning brighter and hotter than ever. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885.md?page=3) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dev-blog-upwell-2-0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th/51885.md?page=5)