# Devblog: CSM Winter Summit 2019 Meeting Minutes

**URL:** <https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-csm-winter-summit-2019-meeting-minutes/147215>\
**Category:** Dev Blogs\
**Tags:** devblog, csm\
**Created:** [March 19, 2019, 3:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-csm-winter-summit-2019-meeting-minutes/147215 "2019-03-19T15:28:48Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 7

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**Author:** ![Drago\_Shouna](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/drago_shouna/32/350651_2.png) [@Drago\_Shouna](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Drago_Shouna)\
**Post date:** [March 20, 2019, 3:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-csm-winter-summit-2019-meeting-minutes/147215/127 "2019-03-20T15:21:08Z")

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> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#):
>
> Not my circle of friends, my constituents.
> 
> I’d rather not force them to make the decision, when it’s clearly in the best interests of the game’s long term health to ensure plex price inflation doesn’t go through the roof.

“Concerns are raised from Brisc Rubal and Aryth about the impacts the PLEX prices have on _their groups of players._ They constantly need more time to crab instead of going out and blowing things up and Aryth is concerned that this would result in people simply leaving due to not having enough time at some point.”

To me that says you are only talking about your groups and not the player base as a whole. At least that’s what it looks like.

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**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\
**Post date:** [March 20, 2019, 3:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-csm-winter-summit-2019-meeting-minutes/147215/128 "2019-03-20T15:38:24Z")

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Hey, look! The Trophy Case is doing its job and pissing you off. 🙂

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**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\
**Post date:** [March 20, 2019, 4:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-csm-winter-summit-2019-meeting-minutes/147215/129 "2019-03-20T16:28:30Z")

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> [@Erebus\_TheChin\_Sundance](#):
>
> I suspect, and rightly so, concerns over existing and purchased LP assets would be prevalent.
> 
> Poke CCP for more info please 👉

If everything is just converted over, there shouldn’t be an issue. And I’ve made it clear that FW will completely die if implants and/or VNIs ever went away.

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**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\
**Post date:** [March 20, 2019, 4:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-csm-winter-summit-2019-meeting-minutes/147215/130 "2019-03-20T16:30:06Z")

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> [@Drago\_Shouna](#):
>
> To me that says you are only talking about your groups and not the player base as a whole. At least that’s what it looks like.

I’m advocating on behalf of the whole player base - I think every player that plexes their account, and it’s more than just nullsec krabs, worries about plex prices being so high right now.

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**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\
**Post date:** [March 20, 2019, 4:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-csm-winter-summit-2019-meeting-minutes/147215/131 "2019-03-20T16:36:23Z")

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FW needs to be completely gutted and overhauled anyway.

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**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\
**Post date:** [March 20, 2019, 6:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-csm-winter-summit-2019-meeting-minutes/147215/132 "2019-03-20T18:08:45Z")

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I suspect what you’re seeing there are statements made based on the exact evidence in their hands. Rather than making a claim that ‘everyone’ needs more time (which then gets utterly dismissed the moment one idiot or one edge case comes up to demonstrate that no, _that particular idiot_ doesn’t need more time), they’re making statements based on the evidence they have directly available to them.

‘The people I’ve spoken to’, for example. Now, did Brisc and/or Aryth say ‘our guys’ or ‘the people I talked to’? We have only the minutes to make that determination. How accurately can we gauge the minute-taker’s attention-to-detail? Well, let’s just look at the bit I’m re-reading right now…

> [@The Minutes](#):
>
> **Sort Dragon** has a few things to mention:
> 
> - Damavik needs to be looked at. **CCP Rise** says he has a plan for this ship, but it has  
> already received two passes. The Triglavian ships needs more attention as they are  
> monsters in all categories.
> - Since the only battlefield currently in use are the Megathron and Apoc a request to buff  
> others is put forward. Seeing a Typhoon fleet again would be refreshing. CCP Rise says  
> that battleships are one of those classes which are used all over the place and each one  
> is utilized for specific scenarios. However, they are mostly seeing the large-scale use of  
> battleships

So the Damavik’s gotten 2 passes and isn’t yet in a good place, but the trig ships are ‘monsters in all categories’. Because I don’t know that I’d call a ship that needs a _third_ balance pass a ‘monster’. Maybe Rise said/meant the _other_ Trig ships are monsters? Cuz they are.

And Megathrons and Apocs are the only… _battlefields_… in use? Wat? Sort didn’t say battlefield. Even with his atrocious Aussie accent, he didn’t say ‘battlefield’. He’s flagrantly _wrong_, mind you, as I’ve seen Cruise, Torpedo, and RHML Typhoons all in use in the last couple of months, as well as Tempests and Hyperions… Dominixes… Geddons… but even if he’s wrong, he’s not wrong enough to say ‘battlefield’.

And then there’s this bit:

> [@The Minutes](#):
>
> **Brisc Rubal** says that a Monitor would greatly benefit from some probe/drug bays to be able to  
> bring drugs and to allow FCs to cycle probes. The lack of having any space in the cargo hold for  
> the FC ship has been a common complaint (along with the speed) from FCs about using it. **Killah  
> Bee** also says that the Muninn is faster than the Monitor now.

I mean, this is just ridiculous on its face. This should clearly read as follows:

‘ **Brisc Rubal** points out that the Monitor is a terrible ship that’s used by people who are bad and they should feel bad. Moreover, CCP should feel bad for introducing it in the first place. **Killah Bee** also says that the Muninn is a better FC ship than the Monitor and it _still_ can’t boost.’

(Note: This last bit is me poking at Brisc because holy carp, the Monitor’s a terrible ship, it should not have been introduced, and attempting to give it _more_ reasons for fools to push it as the bestest and only FC ship ever is just insane. Seriously, it’s a command ship that can’t boost (BUT TRAIN WING COMMAND V ANYWAY!), has half its EHP in the wrong tank for literally every fleet, and one which we consistently show just amounts to a big, flaming ‘SCRAM ME AND WEB ME DOWN AND MURDER MY FLEET WHILE I WATCH IN IMPOTENT RAGE’ sign.)

That said, I don’t blame the guy who was taking the notes. From what we could see from the pictures of the Summit, he was clearly wrapped up in blankets, so probably not feeling well _at all_. I don’t know how good the recording equipment in the conferance rooms there is, but trying to make sense of a jumble of voices is a lot harder in a recording.

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**Author:** ![Zeerse\_Solaris](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zeerse_solaris/32/263785_2.png) [@Zeerse\_Solaris](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zeerse_Solaris)\
**Post date:** [March 20, 2019, 6:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-csm-winter-summit-2019-meeting-minutes/147215/133 "2019-03-20T18:34:03Z")

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My main thought that this is more a transcript than a set of minutes making it very difficult to read and a test of endurance to get through the whole thing, which I didn’t.

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**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\
**Post date:** [March 20, 2019, 6:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-csm-winter-summit-2019-meeting-minutes/147215/134 "2019-03-20T18:46:19Z")

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> [@Zifrian](#):
>
> FW is about PVP. The PVE aspect provides content for bots

Fixed it for you 😜

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**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\
**Post date:** [March 20, 2019, 7:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-csm-winter-summit-2019-meeting-minutes/147215/135 "2019-03-20T19:36:33Z")

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> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#):
>
> As much as we like to joke with people to “not be poor,” one of the benefits of the game is the ability to buy a subscription using in-game currency, and folks want to be able to plex their accounts. There are a lot of people who will stop playing the game if they can’t do this affordably.
> 
> If the price goes too high - to the point that players have to spend all of their time grinding isk in PvE - bad things happen.

I’m not agreeing with him, but players now also have an alpha option on top of their sub or plex options. Is rising plex price such an omen?

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**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\
**Post date:** [March 20, 2019, 7:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-csm-winter-summit-2019-meeting-minutes/147215/136 "2019-03-20T19:39:05Z")

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> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#):
>
> I’m not agreeing with him, but players now also have an alpha option on top of their sub or plex options. Is rising plex price such an omen?

Alphas aren’t an option for a lot of players who have been around for a while.

Rising plex prices will have an impact on omega retention. The question is going to be how big an impact it is.

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**Author:** ![Buoytender\_Bob](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/buoytender_bob/32/374377_2.png) [@Buoytender\_Bob](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Buoytender_Bob)\
**Post date:** [March 20, 2019, 7:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-csm-winter-summit-2019-meeting-minutes/147215/137 "2019-03-20T19:47:08Z")

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Until the matter of skill farming on an industrial level (50+) is addressed, I don’t think that currently proposed nerfs will be sufficient to stabilize PLEX pricing, let alone bring it back down to somewhat reasonable levels.

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**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\
**Post date:** [March 20, 2019, 8:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-csm-winter-summit-2019-meeting-minutes/147215/138 "2019-03-20T20:20:18Z")

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SP-farming is definitely an issue. Once it’s profitable (which it is pretty much immediately), it just scales upward at a terrifying rate. The largest SP-farms have over a 1000 accounts, according to the SP-farmers themselves.

Which is just insane.

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**Author:** ![Black\_Pedro](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/black_pedro/32/257285_2.png) [@Black\_Pedro](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Black_Pedro)\
**Post date:** [March 20, 2019, 8:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-csm-winter-summit-2019-meeting-minutes/147215/139 "2019-03-20T20:37:39Z")

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> [@Buoytender\_Bob](#):
>
> Until the matter of skill farming on an industrial level (50+) is addressed, I don’t think that currently proposed nerfs will be sufficient to stabilize PLEX pricing, let alone bring it back down to somewhat reasonable levels.

Probably. Well, a big war or something that drives player activity might break the trend, increasing PLEX buying from re-interested players, and shaking loose some of the stockpiles would help. Otherwise, this trend is only going to accelerate. Like what happened with skill farming itself which was amazingly profitable until enough of the masses caught on and killed the margins, the masses have figured out the scaling paradigm and everyone is ramping up the alt armies full speed.

There just isn’t enough PLEX coming to market to feed them all, and only the most efficient and those with the most time are going to be able to PLEX. And given you can usually combined skill farming and other forms of income scaling, there is no way a player who wants to both play the game and skill things via PLEX will be able to in the future, not when they are competing with fully trained alt armies subsidizing their Omega status by skill farming.

Ok, CCP could go back to dropping 50% sales monthly to get some more PLEX in the game, and I bet that will start that again if their new focus on the monitoring PLEX and activity levels shows an impact of high PLEX prices in people staying with the game.

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**Author:** ![Ash\_Beldrulf](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ash_beldrulf/32/473706_2.png) [@Ash\_Beldrulf](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ash_Beldrulf)\
**Post date:** [March 20, 2019, 10:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-csm-winter-summit-2019-meeting-minutes/147215/140 "2019-03-20T22:38:55Z")

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Hello and good day CSM, no mining is not just a heavy sec issue but in null sec most of the mining is done by Rorquals from what I have seen.

You are the CSM I had messaged about my in game issues and I have yet to see an of them brought up in the CSM minutes for two summits now.

There is no way that the industrial ships and mining ships evolved along side any of the combat ships in New Eden!

All the mining ships and ALL industrial ships need a balance pass ASAP. Also look into why the Mining Drones are so slow or why none of the ships that are supposed to Mining Drones get no bonuses to mining drone velocity.

See I am asking again for these issues to be brought up!

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**Author:** ![Omnathious\_Deninard](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/omnathious_deninard/32/266675_2.png) [@Omnathious\_Deninard](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Omnathious_Deninard)\
**Post date:** [March 20, 2019, 11:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-csm-winter-summit-2019-meeting-minutes/147215/141 "2019-03-20T23:00:49Z")

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> [@Ash\_Beldrulf](#):
>
> There is no way that the industrial ships and mining ships evolved along side any of the combat ships in New Eden!
> 
> All the mining ships and ALL industrial ships need a balance pass ASAP. Also look into why the Mining Drones are so slow or why none of the ships that are supposed to Mining Drones get no bonuses to mining drone velocity.

Industrial ships are supposed to be vulnerable and require assistance. You aren’t supposed to be able to fit for max yield and max tank. You aren’t supposed to be able to fit for max cargo and tank.

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**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\
**Post date:** [March 21, 2019, 12:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-csm-winter-summit-2019-meeting-minutes/147215/142 "2019-03-21T00:33:56Z")

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> [@Ash\_Beldrulf](#):
>
> All the mining ships and ALL industrial ships need a balance pass ASAP. Also look into why the Mining Drones are so slow or why none of the ships that are supposed to Mining Drones get no bonuses to mining drone velocity.
> 
> See I am asking again for these issues to be brought up!

Other than the Rorq, most folks seem to think the mining ships are in a good place. What specifically do you want to see changed?

I also went through my emails and notes and I can only find one email from you and it didn’t include any suggestions - if I missed something let me know.

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**Author:** ![Synil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/synil/32/276766_2.png) [@Synil](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Synil)\
**Post date:** [March 21, 2019, 2:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-csm-winter-summit-2019-meeting-minutes/147215/143 "2019-03-21T02:05:26Z")

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i’m glad you’r in the CSM

i plex my account, i only buy the galaxy pack when it come a an affordable price 40€ last time if i’m correct \<3

i don’t understand people who shitpost about us, just like them we love Eve online, probably more than them because we “grind to play” for it, at a point we burn-out because of that, right now i will probably burn-out soon i can’t make enough ISK to support my main account, so i’m in alpha my alt farm still omega, transformed into a “skillfarm” to support itself ☹

also i understand this post [Devblog: CSM Winter Summit 2019 Meeting Minutes](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-csm-winter-summit-2019-meeting-minutes/147215/136?u=synil)

just seeing how i’m limited right now depress me, so when i saw the CSM + CCP discuted about plex/skillfarm i gain some hope, really hope they remove the skill injector/extrac, or mayde add a new account system, was thinking about “linking” main account who plex and “alt” account who would be permanent omega after unlock him with 500plex? but cannot skill extrac/inject in exchange, maybe add a limited connection per “alt” 3 max account maybe ? as a new player i just want to play this game i don’t want a skill farm of 40 useless character or 20 rorqual 🙁

really hope they work on it, glad you take our defense \<3

Edit: please tell them to make a galaxy pack, i known CCP when they want to fix something it take some month…at least the galaxy pack offer us 3-5month

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Browl\_Hochmeister](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/browl_hochmeister/32/122185_2.png) [@Browl\_Hochmeister](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Browl_Hochmeister)\
**Post date:** [March 21, 2019, 2:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-csm-winter-summit-2019-meeting-minutes/147215/144 "2019-03-21T02:58:11Z")

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An alphabet soup of acronyms

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Mike\_Azariah](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mike_azariah/32/512626_2.png) [@Mike\_Azariah](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mike_Azariah)\
**Post date:** [March 21, 2019, 2:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-csm-winter-summit-2019-meeting-minutes/147215/145 "2019-03-21T02:58:50Z")

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too many TLA’s?

the letter acronyms

m

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Totchibana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/totchibana/32/296780_2.png) [@Totchibana](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Totchibana)\
**Post date:** [March 21, 2019, 3:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-csm-winter-summit-2019-meeting-minutes/147215/146 "2019-03-21T03:10:50Z")

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Good luck. Them days are gone. Might as well call it Goon’s Online.

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