# Devblog: Updates to Sales Taxes & Brokers Fees **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** feedback, official, devblog\ **Created:** [July 29, 2019, 4:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-updates-to-sales-taxes-brokers-fees/178876 "2019-07-29T16:28:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Dragos\_Highwind](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dragos_highwind/32/170517_2.png) [@Dragos\_Highwind](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dragos_Highwind)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 9:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-updates-to-sales-taxes-brokers-fees/178876/287 "2019-07-29T21:20:37Z")
Put a structure in space, make a corp, declare war, and blow them up. They are destructable thing. If you want that income from one then take it. Of course, you will have to have the manpower to do that and defend yourself, but that is what Eve is all about. if you don’t like whoever has control, then do something about it in game. ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_AdventPrime](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/roland_adventprime/32/146595_2.png) [@Roland\_AdventPrime](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Roland_AdventPrime)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 9:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-updates-to-sales-taxes-brokers-fees/178876/288 "2019-07-29T21:20:59Z")
> [@Dragos\_Highwind](#): > > I think you drastically overestimate how much people care about people’s care about that fraction of isk lost when people PLEX for ISK. Your average purchaser is likely just looking to make some quick isk for X skill or fit. i care > [@Dragos\_Highwind](#): > > Legally they are selling you plex, not isk. You can use that PLEX for in game skins, game time, training certs etc. Your choice to trade it for isk is a personal one and is subject to the market but they dont provide a way to BUY ISK so this is what you would LEGALLY call a MONOPOLY, which technically is illegal. just saying, just saying (if they provided a way to purchase un taxed isk, than no one would have a thing to say) ---
**Author:** ![Quor\_Dresden](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/quor_dresden/32/277545_2.png) [@Quor\_Dresden](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Quor_Dresden)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 9:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-updates-to-sales-taxes-brokers-fees/178876/289 "2019-07-29T21:21:34Z")
> [@Wedge\_Yamamoto](#): > > If you have an alpha account and spend all your time market trading, you should be able to PLEX your account pretty quickly or else you’re doing something wrong. Once you go Omega you can pretty quickly get to V on trading skills. Sure, for those that already know how to play the market and have the time, no problem. As many alphas choose to be alphas because of limited time, and soon to have market costs increase, maybe not so easy. For those that look to take advantage of an alpha account this increase may reduce the amount market alts/ bots. Which was my point originally. ---
**Author:** ![Haulie\_Berry](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/haulie_berry/32/388021_2.png) [@Haulie\_Berry](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Haulie_Berry)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 9:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-updates-to-sales-taxes-brokers-fees/178876/291 "2019-07-29T21:25:37Z")
> [@Roland\_AdventPrime](#): > > but they dont provide a way to BUY ISK so this is what you would LEGALLY call a MONOPOLY, which technically is illegal. I see your understanding of antitrust law is every bit as keen as your understanding of economics and finance. Might you be from Texas by any chance? ---
**Author:** ![NorBdelta\_Aivoras](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/norbdelta_aivoras/32/269110_2.png) [@NorBdelta\_Aivoras](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/NorBdelta_Aivoras)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 9:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-updates-to-sales-taxes-brokers-fees/178876/292 "2019-07-29T21:26:11Z")
![taxation%20is%20theft%20(3)](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/5/d/5deb55b963fdf238cb3b5930005593e97ffb5a97.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_AdventPrime](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/roland_adventprime/32/146595_2.png) [@Roland\_AdventPrime](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Roland_AdventPrime)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 9:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-updates-to-sales-taxes-brokers-fees/178876/293 "2019-07-29T21:26:40Z")
> [@Quor\_Dresden](#): > > > If you have an alpha account and spend all your time market trading, you should be able to PLEX your account pretty quickly or else you’re doing something wrong. Once you go Omega you can pretty quickly get to V on trading skills. > > Sure, for those that already know how to play the market and have the time, no problem. As many alphas choose to be alphas because of limited time, and soon to have market costs increase, maybe not so easy. > > For those that look to take advantage of an alpha account this increase may reduce the amount market alts/ bots. Which was my point originally. > [@Quor\_Dresden](#): > > Once you go Omega you can pretty quickly get to V on trading skills. TRADE 5 will not be the only skill needed to handle this new tax levy/ it takes over 4 and a half months of dedicated skill training to do that (that=fully train up all your trade skills). so forget flying, or being able to transport you wares for sale, its 100% unrealistic for a new player or any player that aren’t already +20mill skill points in to dedicate that time of skill training to TRADE skills ---
**Author:** ![Alexander\_Sinclair](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alexander_sinclair/32/171352_2.png) [@Alexander\_Sinclair](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alexander_Sinclair)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 9:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-updates-to-sales-taxes-brokers-fees/178876/294 "2019-07-29T21:28:06Z")
> [@Youcango\_Poundsand](#): > > Less ISK for purchased plex = Less Plex purchased for cash. Unless you exempt Plex from the new taxes. > More tax = Less trade and inflated prices. > > I think you got things backwards if you want the game to thrive. You want real money to flow into CCP because you are moving more towards an Activision model of screw the player at every turn. All you are doing is making sure that those of us that enjoy playing wil just sub and grind isk. > > For those that laugh at you and come up with new bots every 5 minutes it wont bother them. > > For those that are just trying the game you make it even less welcoming and make the idea of working to a goal even more of a grind. > > I was happy grinding plus buying a couple of plex packs a month on top of subbing multiple accounts. Now it will be consolidated to 2 accounts that will only be subbed with no extra plex purchases. I probably sit in your larger demographic of regular player with some spare money for plex. I feel you are pushing players in my demographic to just sub and grind. Fine by me. But i dont think your accountants are going to like it if the rest of the regular player base feels the same. > > You are losing touch with your player base. more then likely the PLEX sellers aren’t going to absorb these new taxes the buyers will as the sellers will just raise there prices. ---
**Author:** ![Dragos\_Highwind](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dragos_highwind/32/170517_2.png) [@Dragos\_Highwind](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dragos_Highwind)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 9:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-updates-to-sales-taxes-brokers-fees/178876/295 "2019-07-29T21:29:11Z")
> [@Marsha\_Mallow](#): > > > I think you drastically overestimate how much people care about people’s care about that fraction of isk lost when people PLEX for ISK. Your average purchaser is likely just looking to make some quick isk for X skill or fit. > > I agree that the current loss is nominal enough to be overlooked by most individuals, although I suspect they’ll notice this hike because it’s a fairly big jump. > > But my overall point here is more that this change may damage the PLEX market in unintended ways. > > Remember, everyone with real money has the option to just buy 30 days of gametime. You don’t get taxed on that when directly applied. You can also buy additional training slots. People who can count might work out that they will make more ISK not buying PLEX from account management and selling it ingame, but by SP farming. You can buy PLEX ingame and convert it to extractors and potentially get more bang for your buck, dodge the taxes by selling to buy orders, and still profit more than by trading PLEX. That type of behaviour would also cause PLEX inflation as a direct consequence of people simply running the numbers. This is flawed logic because it assumes that supply vs demand on PLEX doesn’t exist. The cost is currently high because the supply isn’t meeting demand. A player now makes drastically more isk off their PLEX purchase than say 1 year ago. The PLEX market is there to give players the opportunity to not pay real money for special services and goods. However how much that is going to cost them is directly proportional to a player wanting in game isk and not wanting to grind it. Right now, for various reasons, the number of people wanting to not have to pay real $ for those special goods and services is outweighing the number of people not willing to grind for in game isk. SP farmin assumes you’re willing to maintain those extra accounts, and willing to risk swings in injector pricing. If you’re too lazy to grind you own isk, the chances are you aren’t about to setup a SP farm industry rahter than put in a credit card and dump on an ISK Buyer… ---
**Author:** ![Metatron44](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/metatron44/32/272378_2.png) [@Metatron44](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Metatron44)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 9:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-updates-to-sales-taxes-brokers-fees/178876/296 "2019-07-29T21:29:24Z")
This wont fix a thing. It’s more like a ripoff imo. Also null is going to get even richer from this by moving trades to Perimeter. And the poor are going to be even poorer. Unless this is going as planned and that is the actual plan. Or is it? ---
**Author:** ![Abe\_Rollin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/abe_rollin/32/272864_2.png) [@Abe\_Rollin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Abe_Rollin)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 9:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-updates-to-sales-taxes-brokers-fees/178876/297 "2019-07-29T21:29:28Z")
> [@Bloody\_Larry](#): > > To my knowledge WH’s are safer AND pay better. Not sure about them being safer… But do WH’s Pay better? The individual sites in higher class wormholes may pay a little more per site than Null. If you really want Null to have an income similar to Jspace then throw away the easy ISK _“magical anom re-spawner”._ Then when you have no guaranteed sites to rat and have to wait hours even days for new anoms you will see that Null ratting income is much higher. ---
**Author:** ![Jhonne\_Calibre](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jhonne_calibre/32/151552_2.png) [@Jhonne\_Calibre](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jhonne_Calibre)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 9:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-updates-to-sales-taxes-brokers-fees/178876/298 "2019-07-29T21:30:21Z")
Very sad the end Eve Online is having. That’s why I stopped playing. Very sad. These changes should be made at the beginning of the game. The CCP will never understand. It’s like you getting married and after 18 years wanting to have a child and your husband no longer wants to be a man. Changing all rules after decades is pathetic. ---
**Author:** ![akrozozz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/akrozozz/32/151542_2.png) [@akrozozz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/akrozozz)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 9:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-updates-to-sales-taxes-brokers-fees/178876/299 "2019-07-29T21:30:27Z")
how destroy eve: step 1: Change the NPC code step2: Destroy null sec with a local blackout Step 3: put the economy of eve in the hands of the international monetary fund step 4: make absurd changes and improve the attributes of the ships Step 5: see how our things disappear for no reason and no response from eve’s administrators Step 6: shut down the server abruptly ---
**Author:** ![Dragos\_Highwind](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dragos_highwind/32/170517_2.png) [@Dragos\_Highwind](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dragos_Highwind)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 9:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-updates-to-sales-taxes-brokers-fees/178876/300 "2019-07-29T21:35:11Z")
I think this post made me facepalm harder than any forum post on this boards. You just called selling PLEX by CCP an illegal monopoly… really? like holy crap really? ---
**Author:** ![Dragos\_Highwind](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dragos_highwind/32/170517_2.png) [@Dragos\_Highwind](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dragos_Highwind)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 9:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-updates-to-sales-taxes-brokers-fees/178876/302 "2019-07-29T21:38:44Z")
> [@akrozozz](#): > > How to fix EVE: > step 1: Change the NPC code > step 2: Fix null sec with a local blackout > Step 3: put the economy of eve in the hands of the international monetary fund > step 4: make needed changes and improve the attributes of the ships > Step 5: Stop having Eve’s administrators feed trolls > Step 6: shut down RMT and botter operations abruptly You were close, tweaked that for you. ---
**Author:** ![Marsha\_Mallow](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/marsha_mallow/32/276207_2.png) [@Marsha\_Mallow](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Marsha_Mallow)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 9:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-updates-to-sales-taxes-brokers-fees/178876/303 "2019-07-29T21:39:20Z")
> [@Dragos\_Highwind](#): > > This is flawed logic because it assumes that supply vs demand on PLEX doesn’t exist. The cost is currently high because the supply isn’t meeting demand. A player now makes drastically more isk off their PLEX purchase than say 1 year ago. The PLEX market is there to give players the opportunity to not pay real money for special services and goods. However how much that is going to cost them is directly proportional to a player wanting in game isk and not wanting to grind it. Right now, for various reasons, the number of people wanting to not have to pay real $ for those special goods and services is outweighing the number of people not willing to grind for in game isk. > > SP farmin assumes you’re willing to maintain those extra accounts, and willing to risk swings in injector pricing. If you’re too lazy to grind you own isk, the chances are you aren’t about to setup a SP farm industry rahter than put in a credit card and dump on an ISK Buyer… It’s really not flawed logic. When gametime was originally introduced it was via game time codes which were traded via account management, not the market. CCP initially introduced PLEX, then Aurum for items via the NES, then discarded Aurum and switched to smaller units of PLEX for both gametime and vanity items. We’ve subsequently seen enormous pressure on PLEX prices and pretty worrying spikes in the ISK value of a sub. A lot of these changes happened after the in-house economist left, and the volatility has only continued after CCP Quant (who largely took over that role) also left. At the moment CCP Larrikin (a former supercap FC for a nullsec bloc) produces the MER, but we have really no way of knowing how well the ingame economy is being managed. Although it seems fair to say; badly. If you throw in an enthusiastic CEO who wants to shake things up for the sake of things, and is on a pathway to launching a series of changes that bypass the CSM, have no real oversight, and do nothing but create noise - there may be a real problem. Annoy the people who sell PLEX enough and the market will slow due to lack of supply. As a consequence people who sub via ISK will pay the price. There’s no flawed logic in any of that, and stop replying because that blather about ISK buyers was utterly irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![Haulie\_Berry](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/haulie_berry/32/388021_2.png) [@Haulie\_Berry](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Haulie_Berry)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 9:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-updates-to-sales-taxes-brokers-fees/178876/304 "2019-07-29T21:39:44Z")
Hey! I was _reading_ that! But, no, I was not suggesting anything about the people of Texas. I was alluding to a famous bit of Eve lore known colloquially as, “Texas Law”. ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_AdventPrime](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/roland_adventprime/32/146595_2.png) [@Roland\_AdventPrime](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Roland_AdventPrime)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 9:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-updates-to-sales-taxes-brokers-fees/178876/305 "2019-07-29T21:40:55Z")
> [@Haulie\_Berry](#): > > > but they dont provide a way to BUY ISK so this is what you would LEGALLY call a MONOPOLY, which technically is illegal. > > I see your understanding of antitrust law is every bit as keen as your understanding of economics and finance. > > Might you be from Texas by any chance? Did you just become so upset that you just said everyone in Texas has something wrong with them, that no one has a clue as to how to understand legal jargon, or economics, or finances? |Rank|State federal district|Number of billionaires| |—|—|—| [List of U.S. states by the number of billionaires - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_the_number_of_billionaires) |1| California| |2| New York |3| Texas |4| Florida and yep it looks like the bar is still active there, and no not the one you drink at [https://www.texasbar.com/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Demographic\_and\_Economic\_Trends](https://www.texasbar.com/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Demographic_and_Economic_Trends) so sure ill move to texas if that helps to see that throwing stupid belittling statements is not a way to go in life. so lets not attack the only state smart enough to be able to leave the nation if they have to > [@Haulie\_Berry](#): > > but they dont provide a way to BUY ISK show me the link to BUY ISK out of eve or in eve, with out using PLEX, with out it getting taxed, with out a 3rd party and then you may say anything you like about ME ---
**Author:** ![Marsha\_Mallow](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/marsha_mallow/32/276207_2.png) [@Marsha\_Mallow](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Marsha_Mallow)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 9:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-updates-to-sales-taxes-brokers-fees/178876/306 "2019-07-29T21:42:39Z")
It’s a reference to [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/4altpg/ladies_and_gentlemen_i_give_you_peak_salt/). Enjoy. ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_AdventPrime](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/roland_adventprime/32/146595_2.png) [@Roland\_AdventPrime](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Roland_AdventPrime)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 9:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-updates-to-sales-taxes-brokers-fees/178876/307 "2019-07-29T21:44:04Z")
Sorry its bellow one, and no i am not familiar with that lore, i would be interested in reading it, and if you link it i will remove this post, but you should defiantly site something like that so no confusion is given > [@Haulie\_Berry](#): > > Hey! I was _reading_ that! ---
**Author:** ![Sylvia\_Kildare](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sylvia_kildare/32/416948_2.png) [@Sylvia\_Kildare](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sylvia_Kildare)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 9:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-updates-to-sales-taxes-brokers-fees/178876/308 "2019-07-29T21:44:30Z")
> [@Makshima\_Shogo](#): > > You are replying to a point that has been deleted 10 minutes ago, but yea I agree with you I just wish nullsec entities didn’t benifit from it, I’m personally going to boycot their Citadel in perimeter. Come move your Perimeter business to Ashab, then. The EVE-Mogul Sotiyo there was nearly killed on Saturday afternoon but apparently they bent the knee/paid someone off/something and it was back to normal operations by Saturday evening. Amarr/Ashab needs more business, damnit! Enough Jita/Perimeter. > [@Ms\_Steak](#): > > Make standings matter!!! Yes, please. > [@Wedge\_Yamamoto](#): > > On the other hand, maybe the big problem is highsec is doesn’t have enough risk for TEST. Maybe CCP should make it easier to blow up keepstars in high sec and get rid of asset safety for player owned structures in highsec. That way, there is a real risk to using a POS to sell your stuff because it might get blown up before your stuff sells and then you lose all your stuff. Also, that will increase the incentive to blow up more POS market hubs. > > How about having the Triglavs or sleepers try to take out TTT and see if TEST can defend it against thousands of Sleeper BS. Make them earn the right to be the sole Forge market hub. Oops, meant to try and quote the part of your post that had the “just give 1 tril ISK to TEST and blow up their TTT Keepstar, call it even, leave NPC/citadel fees/taxes as they are now” part… because I had a thought in response to that + all the above you wrote: Instead of giving TEST all that ISK (oh noe, faucet!)… just magically transform the TTT into a Palatine Keepstar that cannot be unanchored… and watch how long it lasts for/how long the nullsec cabal stays together. 😉 [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-updates-to-sales-taxes-brokers-fees/178876.md?page=14) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-updates-to-sales-taxes-brokers-fees/178876.md?page=16)