# Devblog: War Declaration Changes - The War Adjacent to Christmas **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** release, official, devblog\ **Created:** [December 6, 2018, 3:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-war-declaration-changes-the-war-adjacent-to-christmas/125257 "2018-12-06T15:02:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 35
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 6:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-war-declaration-changes-the-war-adjacent-to-christmas/125257/713 "2018-12-10T18:34:24Z")
> [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](#): > > I agree there’s been some fun content around structures lately, but that is happening regardless of these changes. Right now it is “some”, when the only possible war dec targets are reduced to structure owners it will be ALL. ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 6:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-war-declaration-changes-the-war-adjacent-to-christmas/125257/714 "2018-12-10T18:36:11Z")
> [@Salt\_Foambreaker](#): > > Right now it is “some”, when the only possible war dec targets are reduced to structure owners it will be ALL. Why do you think so? That you can only dec structure owners does not mean you will _have to_ attack their structures, or that they have to defend if you do. People who dec mostly to gank people around hubs and pipes have no incentive to take down the structure(s) that make the war possible - actually quite the opposite. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 6:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-war-declaration-changes-the-war-adjacent-to-christmas/125257/715 "2018-12-10T18:37:18Z")
> [@Milana\_Pollard](#): > > That’s because the mechanic has been transposed to ‘work’ in EVE Online’s setting. Otherwise, it’s the same mechanic. Just as a movie based on a book isn’t EXACTLY the same but still tells the same story. Unless BDO is requiring guilds own structures for them to be able to be war decced, then it’s not the same thing as this mechanic. As I understand it, BDO does not require guilds to own structures to be war decced. If that’s wrong, let me know. > [@Milana\_Pollard](#): > > > Almost everything you said in here is wrong. You really don’t know what you’re talking about. > > So you do get paid? Cuz if you don’t, then you and your opinions are literally meaningless to the devs. My account is paid for, we get free entry into Fanfest and Vegas, the they fly us to Iceland twice a year on their dime to hear what we have to say and share their plans with us. So there’s money on the table for them, yes. I’m not just doing this for shits and giggles. My time is extremely valuable. > [@Milana\_Pollard](#): > > Here’s the other thing: no one on the CSM represents me or mine in any way. If CCP was serious about listening to the players, the wouldn’t host a small group of marionettes to speak for them. How many people on the CSM actually listen to the players and represent their ideas, instead of pushing their own agendas? I’ve never heard of it happening, not once. Which is why I’ve always considered the CSM a complete farce, and the longer I’ve watched it in the time I’ve played, the more I’ve come to realise that you are little more than a showpiece. You really don’t understand what the CSM does. We are not mouthpieces for CCP - they speak for themselves. We represent the players to them, not the other way around. We’re a focus group, essentially, and one they want and have put money into. They do listen to us, and our ideas have had influence on them. They have said as much, time and time again. They wouldn’t waste their time or money if it was simply as pointless as you claim it is. > [@Milana\_Pollard](#): > > I’m not trying to hurt or provoke you, but you are deluding yourself if you think you’re important in any way. The sooner you realise this, the sooner you will realise that CCP is playing us all for fools, and really don’t care about us or the game anymore beyond its financial success. Stop making excuses for them. I am well aware of my place in the overall scheme of things, but I appreciate your concern. > [@Milana\_Pollard](#): > > As a side note, whether PA influenced this change or not is beside the point. The fact that it comes from BDO is my point, and it’s enough for me to ditch this sinking ship. I said the moment the sale was announced to us lowly players that if EVE adopts anything resembling a BDO mechanic, I’m out. I like the uniqueness of EVE. That uniqueness is gone. Just because it works in some other game, doesn’t mean you have to try to shoehorn it in to this one, which already works just fine. But it really doesn’t, that’s the thing. In almost every game with PvP and guilds there are war dec mechanics, and most of them work the same way. EVE is one of the few where the mechanic isn’t consensual. That’s different and this change doesn’t change that fact. If you go looking for similar mechanics to this, I can shoe horn a few in - Star Wars Galaxies, for example, required the building of a guild structure before a guild could even be formed, and the war decs were managed through a terminal in that structure. You could just as easily argue that they stole this idea from SOE. But as somebody else noted, almost nothing is new when it comes to MMOs and similiar mechanics abound. This was not a BDO driven change. > [@Milana\_Pollard](#): > > TL;DR it’s a stupid change because it’s not necessary. The ‘problem of players quitting the game because of wardecs’ is because of players that were always going to quit. That is all. This isn’t true. The data we were shown was based on activity levels before, during and after a war dec. The data showed that activity dropped significantly during the war and didn’t pick back up. That’s direct causation with a specific trigger. And given that the best way to get rid of a dec is to wait them out with no kills, the meta became logging off for a week. That’s not acceptable for any company, and so it’s going to be changed. > [@Milana\_Pollard](#): > > You say I’m putting words in your mouth, but I’ve read your quotes in various articles and I know exactly what you’ve said. Just because you haven’t said it in this thread, doesn’t mean you haven’t said it, so don’t play games with me. I’m not important, but I’m important enough for you to hang on my every word across a variety of platforms? Ok. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 6:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-war-declaration-changes-the-war-adjacent-to-christmas/125257/716 "2018-12-10T18:38:30Z")
> [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](#): > > Why do you think so? That you can only dec structure owners does not mean you will _have to_ attack their structures, or that they have to defend if you do. People who dec mostly to gank people around hubs and pipes have no incentive to take down the structure(s) that make the war possible - actually quite the opposite. Attacking the structure might bring out defenders to gank. Also what do you people think, PIRAT will just disband? No 🤣 Just a change in tactics. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Azariah](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mike_azariah/32/512626_2.png) [@Mike\_Azariah](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mike_Azariah)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 6:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-war-declaration-changes-the-war-adjacent-to-christmas/125257/717 "2018-12-10T18:43:55Z")
Ah, but you did not ask who they will be demanding the protection money from. OK Marmite, hand over the isk or we start cleanin out da rookie structures and puttin yas outta business, capiche? m ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 6:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-war-declaration-changes-the-war-adjacent-to-christmas/125257/718 "2018-12-10T18:46:09Z")
> [@Salt\_Foambreaker](#): > > Also what do you people think, PIRAT will just disband? No What made you think I think HS wardec corps will just disband? I don’t think so at all. I think they will _go on doing pretty much what they do now_, only they’ll select targets who have at least one structure wherever. There’s enough of such corps that I don’t think they will really have to change what they do all that much. There’s not enough incentive to go after structures instead there. There’s _some_ corps that will go poke structures in hopes of provoking a fight, of course. But since there’s nothing stopping them from doing so now, most of them _already doing it_ too. Hence I believe nothing much will change tactics-wise. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 6:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-war-declaration-changes-the-war-adjacent-to-christmas/125257/719 "2018-12-10T18:46:50Z")
> [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](#): > > There’s been some fun content around structures lately where I come from too, but that is happening regardless of and is pretty much unaffected by these changes. and > [@Circumstantial\_Evidence](#): > > t seems to be self limiting. After a few days of bashing structure after boring structure, looting 100-200m and no fight, jump in next system and there’s another 20 Athanors. It is a question of game balance, mechanics affect game balance. What I liked about spectrum was that they went out and destroyed all structures in a system then moved on, if this were to happen across hisec then people would have to gang up to use a structure and they would be the content drivers that they should be. So at this point someone has cleaned out all the refineries near me, so that means moving stuff or putting one down myself or deciding that the one two systems over should be defended so I can have the required efficiency. Of course this could have happened before, but it did not because it was easier to wait in the pipes and at hubs for passing easy kills. The thing is that this is more likely to happen now because the pool of hisec people to war decked has been reduced and there is a value in those structures that is important to certain people. ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 6:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-war-declaration-changes-the-war-adjacent-to-christmas/125257/720 "2018-12-10T18:48:01Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > Of course this could have happened before, but it did not because it was easier to wait in the pipes and at hubs for passing easy kills. My point is that I suspect there’s enough of people passing pipes and hubs that own structures somewhere that this will not really change. This change is a problem for people who want to kill a _particular_ target without a structure. If you just want prey, any prey, I think you will be fine. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 6:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-war-declaration-changes-the-war-adjacent-to-christmas/125257/721 "2018-12-10T18:50:11Z")
> [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](#): > > There’s _some_ corps that will go poke structures in hopes of provoking a fight, of course. But since there’s nothing stopping them from doing so now, most of them _already doing it_ too. It is totally different. Everyone will transfer their structures to 1 man alt corps, that is more or less a given. However that makes destroying their structures super easy and free because they cannot defend, they are in a corp with no structures. Basically most hs structures will be free kills. ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 6:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-war-declaration-changes-the-war-adjacent-to-christmas/125257/722 "2018-12-10T18:51:22Z")
> [@Salt\_Foambreaker](#): > > Everyone will transfer their structures to 1 man alt corps, that is more or less a given. > > However that makes destroying their structures super easy and free because they cannot defend, they are in a corp with no structures. > > Basically most hs structures will be free kills. Because no one but you has thought about that? ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 6:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-war-declaration-changes-the-war-adjacent-to-christmas/125257/723 "2018-12-10T18:58:13Z")
> [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](#): > > My point is that I suspect there’s enough of people passing pipes and hubs that own structures somewhere that this will not really change. Of course, most of PIRAT’s kills are on nullsec alliances, though Marmite has a different mix. > [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](#): > > This change is a problem for people who want to kill a _particular_ target without a structure. If you just want prey, any prey, I think you will be fine. This is the issue in that it narrows the sslection of targets for solo and small groups, and it is something that bothers me. When I was in the war dec discord I suggested that you could have a max of five war decs as an entity unless you had a citadel with a CONCORD office in it which allowed you to have unlimited war decs, but that Citadel if destroyed would reduce the number of war decs back to five ending but the last five to come into being. Because for me it was always the untargeted war decs with low effort that were the issue and in a way that is not sorted and in fact this change here hurts the small war decker most of all. Which is why it is a temporary solution. > [@Salt\_Foambreaker](#): > > It is totally different. > Everyone will transfer their structures to 1 man alt corps, that is more or less a given. > > However that makes destroying their structures super easy and free because they cannot defend, they are in a corp with no structures. > > Basically most hs structures will be free kills. In effect, this is why not being able to ally is a bad move by CCP unless they wanted to force people into bigger and better corps and alliances. I would really like to know if that was their reasoning for that, personally at this point I would allow people to ally without structures because you want to make it easier for people to fight, but later, change it. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 6:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-war-declaration-changes-the-war-adjacent-to-christmas/125257/724 "2018-12-10T18:59:08Z")
> [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](#): > > Because no one but you has thought about that? No because **everyone** has thought of that but the devs left only two choices: 1. Keep your structures in your main corp and let your members deal with the wardecs 2. Transfer your structure to a 1 man alt corp and let your members avoid wardec ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 7:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-war-declaration-changes-the-war-adjacent-to-christmas/125257/725 "2018-12-10T19:03:54Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > In effect, this is why not being able to ally is a bad move by CCP unless they wanted to force people into bigger and better corps and alliances. I would really like to know if that was their reasoning for that, personally at this point I would allow people to ally without structures because you want to make it easier for people to fight, but later, change it. The original idea forced this reasoning. Otherwise corps could defend structures without themselves being at risk of wardec. The moment they decided to tie the two together they were FKed. It is too bad too, players made many workable suggestions to fix wardec that would not just morph the problem. ---
**Author:** ![safira\_jomita](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/safira_jomita/32/405219_2.png) [@safira\_jomita](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/safira_jomita)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 7:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-war-declaration-changes-the-war-adjacent-to-christmas/125257/726 "2018-12-10T19:04:31Z")
> [@Salt\_Foambreaker](#): > > Transfer your structure to a 1 man alt corp and let your members avoid wardec But I thought a corp couldn’t transfer structures in a wardec ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 7:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-war-declaration-changes-the-war-adjacent-to-christmas/125257/727 "2018-12-10T19:06:22Z")
> [@safira\_jomita](#): > > But I thought a corp couldn’t transfer structures in a wardec That is right, that is why it has to be done right away and be that way permanently. You can’t just wait until it is convenient, you need to transfer within hours of the patch going live if your structures are in high visibility areas. Once you are wardec you may NEVER have another chance to transfer. ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 7:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-war-declaration-changes-the-war-adjacent-to-christmas/125257/728 "2018-12-10T19:12:50Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > Of course, most of PIRAT’s kills are on nullsec alliances, though Marmite has a different mix Yea, to clarify: I’m not talking about any particular group here, but on a general level. To the other discussion: I suppose the (for the lack of a better term) “target selection effects” and who will own structures after these changes go live are something that CCP will have to follow up on and tweak the system accordingly. As we see from this discussion, various people who all have been involved in HS wars(with and without actual fight is them ;)) have different gut feelings of where it will go. Means trying it, collecting lata, and seeing where it goes is the only way to know for certain. ---
**Author:** ![Jennifer\_Austin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jennifer_austin/32/321578_2.png) [@Jennifer\_Austin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jennifer_Austin)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 7:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-war-declaration-changes-the-war-adjacent-to-christmas/125257/729 "2018-12-10T19:20:34Z")
> [@Milana\_Pollard](#): > > Back when the PA acquisition was announced, I made it clear that I was unsubbing and waiting to see if this game goes in the same direction as Black Desert. If it didn’t, I was going to resub. If it did, then EVE is dead. This change is an almost exact replication of a BDO mechanic. This change is EVE’s curtain call. This player won’t be retained. > > When you make blanket statements that include phrasing such as ‘at all’ with no way of knowing for sure, you risk exposing your ignorance. How did you become a CSM again? Oh, that’s right, the only people who give a ■■■■ about CSM are idiots. The devs were going to make this decision with or without your input, and your attempts to placate the community here is nothing more than lipservice that CCP don’t have to pay because they’ve got their CSM lackeys doing it for them. Bye Felicia you don’t want to be a subscriber that’s on you Felicia ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 7:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-war-declaration-changes-the-war-adjacent-to-christmas/125257/730 "2018-12-10T19:24:13Z")
> [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](#): > > Yea, to clarify: I’m not talking about any particular group here, but on a general level. I know, I was just pointing out that PIRAT has less of an impact than Marmite from this change because PIRAT focus more on nullsec alliances. > [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](#): > > To the other discussion: I suppose the (for the lack of a better term) “target selection effects” and who will own structures after these changes go live are something that CCP will have to follow up on and tweak the system accordingly. As we see from this discussion, various people who all have been involved in HS wars(with and without actual fight is them ;)) have different gut feelings of where it will go. Means trying it, collecting lata, and seeing where it goes is the only way to know for certain. I was detailing Spectrum as this was an interesting reaction to the war dec mechanic change hitting tomorrow which will create game balance change and perhaps a desired affect, in other words more meaningful corps and alliances in hisec. They have blown up 54 Citadels, 67 EC’s and 32 Refineries in Kador which is pretty systematic and there are now systems without any structures due to their efforts, I am currently in one of them as I type this. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 8:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-war-declaration-changes-the-war-adjacent-to-christmas/125257/731 "2018-12-10T20:04:56Z")
> [@Salt\_Foambreaker](#): > > In EVE they are corps We weren’t talking about EVE. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 8:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-war-declaration-changes-the-war-adjacent-to-christmas/125257/732 "2018-12-10T20:12:08Z")
> [@Salt\_Foambreaker](#): > > Attacking the structure might bring out defenders to gank. This is an absolutely ridiculous thing to say. Anyone showing up to defend the structure is already showing up in combat vessels, probably including friendly or neutral logistics to keep them alive while defending the structure. That makes them _bad_ targets for gankers, who rely on surprise and a quick kill against a relatively light tank. Disband? No, they’ll just wardec groups that own structures, then ignore the structures[1] and focus on killing ships. * * * 1. The exception to this, of course, is that as Mizhara says, any time the victim starts to unanchor a structure, they’ll RF it to stop the unanchoring. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-war-declaration-changes-the-war-adjacent-to-christmas/125257.md?page=34) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-war-declaration-changes-the-war-adjacent-to-christmas/125257.md?page=36)