# Diplomacy: Negotiations with SFRIM **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [December 14, 2017, 1:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/diplomacy-negotiations-with-sfrim/45266 "2017-12-14T01:43:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mizhara_del_thul/32/486150_2.png) [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mizhara_Del_thul)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 8:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/diplomacy-negotiations-with-sfrim/45266/41 "2017-12-15T20:03:06Z")
Of course _I_ take what I say seriously, but your assertion I have some sinister agenda of… let’s see here… “drum up fear and hatred of” anything on these boards, shitposting, is a ridiculously unfounded claim. I speak on behalf of myself, on these ridiculous boards, pretty much entirely for base entertainment and alleviation of boredom. Every once in a great while I’ll feel like I have something sufficiently serious to make more of an effort, but again it’s hardly with sinister intent. Your tendencies to ascribe all manner of motivations, means and intents to people rather than just taking them at face value is rather disquieting, though. What kind of world of shadows and skullduggery do you live in when you make my paranoia look like naiveté? ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 8:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/diplomacy-negotiations-with-sfrim/45266/42 "2017-12-15T20:13:00Z")
I’m a little impressed you’d consider spreading hatred and fear of the Amarr a “sinister agenda,” Miz. I really thought you’d see it as a public service-- warning people of the lurking, hungering monster that hides its fanged face behind hulls of gold and white, menace cloaked in piety. You’ve been making the argument that the Empire must be destroyed. How is that not an argument founded in hatred and fear (though I guess you might see it as righteous anger, but, frankly, you’ve made it pretty clear that you expect the Empire to rise up and devour everybody if it’s allowed to survive)? Isn’t that the point of … “Sharz’namarr,” was it? So … here’s an interesting question for you, Miz: do you think it’s okay to use technically-true statements to trick people? To me that’s not too different from lying; it’s intentionally using select data points to guide people’s pattern recognition towards the wrong conclusion. It’s getting their perceptions to lie to them without going there yourself. Is that something an honest person can do, do you think? ---
**Author:** ![Aergri\_Evingod](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aergri_evingod/32/116437_2.png) [@Aergri\_Evingod](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aergri_Evingod)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 8:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/diplomacy-negotiations-with-sfrim/45266/43 "2017-12-15T20:16:05Z")
> [@Aria\_Jenneth](#): > > Is that something an honest person can do, do you think? Not answering for Mizhara Bending the truth to fit the means, why yes everybody is able to learn it. ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 8:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/diplomacy-negotiations-with-sfrim/45266/44 "2017-12-15T20:17:26Z")
Sure, everyone can, but everyone can lie, too. The question is whether someone who prides herself on unfailing honesty can do something like that and still consider herself unfailingly honest, Ms. Evingod. ---
**Author:** ![Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mizhara_del_thul/32/486150_2.png) [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mizhara_Del_thul)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 8:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/diplomacy-negotiations-with-sfrim/45266/45 "2017-12-15T20:47:49Z")
> [@Aria\_Jenneth](#): > > You’ve been making the argument that the Empire must be destroyed. How is that not an argument founded in hatred and fear (though I guess you might see it as righteous anger, but, frankly, you’ve made it pretty clear that you expect the Empire to rise up and devour everybody if it’s allowed to survive)? Impressive, questioning me on veracity and then putting words in my mouth in the same post. No Aria, I don’t simply “make the argument that the Empire must be destroyed”. I add the qualifiers and reason for it, along with pointing out the specific traits and qualities that needs to be ended to get the Empire off the list of “greatest threats to New Eden”. If the Empire _in its current form_ is allowed to survive, it will indeed try to eradicate and subsume us all. This should not be a controversial statement, given that the Rite and its adherents on this very board voice the exact same intent while trying to make it sound palatable and justified. > [@Aria\_Jenneth](#): > > Isn’t that the point of … “Sharz’namarr,” was it? Sarz’namarr, and in a way it is. It’s a little bit of many things. It’s catharsis. It’s spreading a message. It’s artistic expression. It’s creative relief. It’s fun. It is a non-trivial attempt at creating the most metal fucken’ beast New Eden has ever seen. It’s creating a community. It’s reveling in a mad mix of wrath, joy, sorrow, recrimination and pride. Put short, it’s simply artistry. > [@Aria\_Jenneth](#): > > So … here’s an interesting question for you, Miz: do you think it’s okay to use technically-true statements to trick people? To me that’s not too different from lying; it’s intentionally using select data points to guide people’s pattern recognition towards the wrong conclusion. It’s getting their perceptions to lie to them without going there yourself. Okay? No, it’s not. It’s dishonest, especially when done intentionally. An example would be the rather famous kind of “spin” you find slathered all over the place with certain posters, _intentionally_ using technicality and half-truths to spin a narrative. However, you ascribe maliciousness to it, which in many cases may be true but at the same time you dismiss a much simpler notion: Unintentionally falling for ones own biases and agenda. Yes, I am indeed an honest person as far as I’m concerned. I try to never lie. I try to be true to both myself and everyone else. No, when I make a damned joke, I’m not being dishonest, I’m trying and possibly even succeeding to be a little funny. Of course I’ll sometimes cock up and unintentionally be dishonest, but no. I do not intentionally tell half truths or rely on technicalities. I’m afraid my disgust at the dishonesty on display on these boards and in your characterizations of people who disagree with you isn’t hypocritical in that regard. Feel free to catch me out when I make a mistake or allow myself to fall for my biases, etc. Just don’t expect me to do much but roll my eyes at kettles looking in vain for pots to paint. ---
**Author:** ![Aergri\_Evingod](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aergri_evingod/32/116437_2.png) [@Aergri\_Evingod](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aergri_Evingod)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 8:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/diplomacy-negotiations-with-sfrim/45266/46 "2017-12-15T20:48:36Z")
> [@Aria\_Jenneth](#): > > Sure, everyone can, but everyone can lie, too. The question is whether someone who prides herself on unfailing honesty can do something like that and still consider herself unfailingly honest, Ms. Evingod. That is the question I assumed i can indeed not answer Ms. Jenneth. In my expirience is one prerequisit for the tactic named by me is the shield to seem unfailing honest. ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 9:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/diplomacy-negotiations-with-sfrim/45266/47 "2017-12-15T21:03:57Z")
> [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](#): > > Just don’t expect me to do much but roll my eyes at kettles looking in vain for pots to paint. … I think … you must either have this backwards or a cast-iron kettle. Anyhow, thank you for clarifying, Miz! To answer your question about what kind of shadow-world I live in … actually I think for my job description I’m maybe still a little naive. I sometimes watch more experienced (or damaged?) soldier-types jumping at shadows and wonder what they’re so afraid of, then wonder if maybe I should be afraid of something too. The way you pride yourself on honesty, Miz, I pride myself on integrity. It’s … not really the same thing; I won’t promise to never lie or trick people, since I don’t know if I’ll always be able to live up to such a standard. Instead, I just try to to be someone who clarifies stuff and helps people understand each other and the world, instead of someone who throws nets of illusion and tries to catch people. That also means I don’t ask the world to be anything in particular for me; it’s hard enough to understand when I’m not trying to make it do something. Maybe that seems weak and deceptive to you; I don’t really understand why you think of me as a liar, only that you don’t trust me at all. And, I have my own reasons for not trusting you. Your admission that you might sometimes “cock up and unintentionally be dishonest” is actually I think my favorite thing you’ve said all year, though. You’ve raised my opinion of you with that. Thank you. I think we’ve derailed this enough for now (not that it was an amazing topic, but, still), so, I won’t press further. Thank you for your response. ---
**Author:** ![Loai\_Qerl](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/loai_qerl/32/303712_2.png) [@Loai\_Qerl](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Loai_Qerl)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 9:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/diplomacy-negotiations-with-sfrim/45266/48 "2017-12-15T21:13:34Z")
No. Noooooo. Do NOT turn this into one of those threads where you are both so very sad at each other about how very wrong the other is, and then Arrendis comes in. When that happens it is the end times for anything other than being very sad about how everyone else is wrong. Stop it. I am trying very hard to see what Nauplius looks like with red hair., here. You can have any other thread you want. …would a kind word in the appropriate ear about a tour of the Lamp do the trick? It’s all I can offer, but I will do my best. ---
**Author:** ![Aergri\_Evingod](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aergri_evingod/32/116437_2.png) [@Aergri\_Evingod](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aergri_Evingod)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 9:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/diplomacy-negotiations-with-sfrim/45266/49 "2017-12-15T21:17:39Z")
i have a very clear image of the specific person with red hair however i’m not sure how to express it. ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 9:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/diplomacy-negotiations-with-sfrim/45266/50 "2017-12-15T21:19:32Z")
> [@Loai\_Qerl](#): > > No. Noooooo. Do NOT turn this into one of those threads where you are both so very sad at each other about how very wrong the other is, and then Arrendis comes in. ? > [@Loai\_Qerl](#): > > When that happens it is the end times for anything other than being very sad about how everyone else is wrong. Stop it. ?? . . . . > [@Loai\_Qerl](#): > > …would a kind word in the appropriate ear about a tour of the Lamp do the trick? It’s all I can offer, but I will do my best. ? ?! !!! . . . . . . . . ---
**Author:** ![Loai\_Qerl](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/loai_qerl/32/303712_2.png) [@Loai\_Qerl](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Loai_Qerl)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 9:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/diplomacy-negotiations-with-sfrim/45266/51 "2017-12-15T21:20:01Z")
Stop. Making. Dots. ---
**Author:** ![Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aldrith_shutaq/32/378618_2.png) [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aldrith_Shutaq)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 9:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/diplomacy-negotiations-with-sfrim/45266/52 "2017-12-15T21:25:47Z")
She calls me Aldieboo because she has a raging crush on me and that’s what she calls me in her dreams. ---
**Author:** ![Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mizhara_del_thul/32/486150_2.png) [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mizhara_Del_thul)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 9:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/diplomacy-negotiations-with-sfrim/45266/53 "2017-12-15T21:27:29Z")
Well I sometimes do dream of having you and/or your ball-and-chains with me in a locked room, Aldieboo. Oh, the _magic_ we’d create. ---
**Author:** ![Samira\_Kernher](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/samira_kernher/32/244840_2.png) [@Samira\_Kernher](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Samira_Kernher)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 9:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/diplomacy-negotiations-with-sfrim/45266/54 "2017-12-15T21:33:22Z")
> [@Aria\_Jenneth](#): > > The Amarr, in general, take Nauplius a little more seriously (he’s intentionally murdered millions, after all), and often refer to him as “The Butcher.” He doesn’t at all like that nickname, though he seems aware of the horrifying nature of the stuff he’s done. I guess, maybe he feels like it drains his brutality of the meaning he sees in it. > > Of course, to the rest of us, that’s kind of the point: directed as it is only by his own troubled mind, a thick, foul stew of Sabik and Amarr religious principles bubbling in a broth of pathologized ego and confirmation bias, it is, in fact, slaughter without meaning, butchery without purpose. Remember our talk about naming things, Aria? Think of being struck from the Book of Records as something along those lines. To use a person’s proper name is to give them legitimacy. The point, from my part, has always been to dename him. A dozen different monikers could have been appropriate, but the main reason is to strip his real name from him. ---
**Author:** ![Nauplius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nauplius/32/403015_2.png) [@Nauplius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nauplius)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 9:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/diplomacy-negotiations-with-sfrim/45266/55 "2017-12-15T21:33:55Z")
> [@Loai\_Qerl](#): > > I am trying very hard to see what Nauplius looks like with red hair., here. I simulated the appearance; it was terrible. Besides, CONCORD does not seem to allow true Red, the color of Blood, and instead you end up with Orange, the color of Hellfire. ---
**Author:** ![Thulla\_Icin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/thulla_icin/32/415104_2.png) [@Thulla\_Icin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Thulla_Icin)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 9:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/diplomacy-negotiations-with-sfrim/45266/56 "2017-12-15T21:39:31Z")
> [@Nauplius](#): > > Besides, CONCORD does not seem to allow true Red, the color of Blood, and instead you end up with Orange, the color of Hellfire. That’d be appropriate, then, 'cause that’s what you’re gonna burn in. ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 9:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/diplomacy-negotiations-with-sfrim/45266/57 "2017-12-15T21:40:14Z")
OH! … Okay. Thank you, Ms. Kernher! ---
**Author:** ![Tannia\_Ambrye](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tannia_ambrye/32/410653_2.png) [@Tannia\_Ambrye](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tannia_Ambrye)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 10:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/diplomacy-negotiations-with-sfrim/45266/58 "2017-12-15T22:47:40Z")
So the name Napkins isn’t a reference to any unfortunate accidents he had in public then? I’m not sure what I think of that, it seems oddly disappointing. ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 10:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/diplomacy-negotiations-with-sfrim/45266/59 "2017-12-15T22:56:45Z")
Yeah, it’s just people making light of him. Which, might be useful and might not. ---
**Author:** ![Ibrahim\_Tash-Murkon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ibrahim_tash-murkon/32/474183_2.png) [@Ibrahim\_Tash-Murkon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ibrahim_Tash-Murkon)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 11:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/diplomacy-negotiations-with-sfrim/45266/60 "2017-12-15T23:38:10Z")
If it helps the diplomatic process in anyway I’m willing to dye my hair as well. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/diplomacy-negotiations-with-sfrim/45266.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/diplomacy-negotiations-with-sfrim/45266.md?page=4)