# Discussion about "Into the Abyss" update **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [April 15, 2018, 12:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843 "2018-04-15T12:09:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Black\_Pedro](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/black_pedro/32/257285_2.png) [@Black\_Pedro](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Black_Pedro)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 4:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/241 "2018-05-02T16:08:14Z")
> [@Bouh\_Revetoile](#): > > No. Again, if you want a good item without screwing it, you need to invest a LOT. Indeed, it seems CCP recognized the same concerns as I: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/8ggs7g/sisi\_mutated\_mod\_stat\_update/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/8ggs7g/sisi_mutated_mod_stat_update/) These toned down stats seem less problematic. I still expect broken fits to appear in the context of solo and small group content, but I agree with you that these new stats are going to make it much harder for large fleet doctrines to employ mutaplamids to build completely new fits. ---
**Author:** ![zluq\_zabaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zluq_zabaa/32/19011_2.png) [@zluq\_zabaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zluq_zabaa)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 4:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/242 "2018-05-02T16:11:15Z")
The issue I see is that tackle range has been nerfed, which would have been a possible counter-weight to increase MWD speed. I think I said somewhere that MWDs are the exception to what you cited. Anyhow, I know that propulsion mods are probably THE most important thing to consider here. A really good roll on an MWD would have the 10% bonus and it is not very likely. But even if you find one, you’ll want to make sure that fitting requirements and activation costs don’t ■■■■ you over. On other modules these might not be of much importance, but certainly in the case of 5/50MN. 500MN - another story. Personally I wouldn’t mind BS going faster, as with all the Super dropping they are kind of useless outside of large fleets and kitey roams, lest we speak about special role BS in special areas like Wormholes. Personally I’d rather have stronger tackle/neut/active rep mods and less oppressive propulsion for smaller ships. ---
**Author:** ![krakpipe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/krakpipe/32/61065_2.png) [@krakpipe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/krakpipe)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 4:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/243 "2018-05-02T16:33:40Z")
> [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > Probably not. CCP just heavily nerfed the mutaplasmids to the point that T2 will not be able to reach even lower type of faction modules. | Name | amount | range | cost | fitting PG | | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | | Heavy Energy Neutralizer II | 600 GJ | 25,200m | 500 GJ | 2250pg | | True Sansha Heavy Energy Neutralizer | 600 GJ | 29,400 m | 500 GJ | 2000pg | | Vizan’s Modified Heavy Energy Neutralizer | 600 GJ | 36,400m | 500 GJ | 2600pg | | Abyssal Heavy Energy Neutralizer | 780 GJ (1.3) | 35,280m (1.4) | 300GJ (0.6) | 1800pg (0.8) | | I’ve just picked randomly a heavy neut, to see if the “not even as good as faction” idea is true (regarding this mod only)…it isn’t. | | | | | As you progress along heavy neuts in terms of meta, only one factor - range - improves. the others stay the same or get worse (fitting). While the abyssal cannot beat officer range (it gets within a hair of it) it can beat true sansha range by a long way, and it beats officer by a country mile in all three other factors, activation cost, amount neuted and PG fitting. 30% more energy neuted possible than officer, almost a third less fitting cost and 40% less activation cost all possible with these “nerfed” stats. Obviously the entire lot needs going through, but in the 2 examples I have looked at. Heavy neuts and Large MWDs, it’s possible to get mods that are far superior to officer, let alone lower tier faction EDIT, the abyssal stats are from table values applied to T2 ---
**Author:** ![Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/uriel_the_flame/32/490165_2.png) [@Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Uriel_the_Flame)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 4:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/244 "2018-05-02T16:39:53Z")
The forum has a table creation function that you can use in such cases, see below. ``` |Name|stat#1|stat#2|stat#3|stat#4| |---|---|---|---|---| |Heavy Energy Neutralizer II|600 GJ|25,200m|500 GJ|2250pg| |True Sansha Heavy Energy Neutralizer|600 GJ|29,400 m|500 GJ|2000pg| |Vizan’s Modified Heavy Energy Neutralizer|600 GJ|36,400m|500 GJ|2600pg| |Abyssal Heavy Energy Neutralizer|780 GJ (1.3)|30,240m (1.4)|300GJ (0.6)|1800pg (0.8)| ``` Edit: Best would be if you quote my entire post then copy the table with its markup then edit your post and paste the table into it so you can edit it as needed. Edit: Modified my post so you can easier copy the table code. Edit: I see it worked. 👍🙂 ---
**Author:** ![krakpipe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/krakpipe/32/61065_2.png) [@krakpipe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/krakpipe)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 4:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/245 "2018-05-02T16:40:21Z")
dude, thankyou will have a look at that in future edit, i made an error in the abyssal neut range, should be 35280, could you put that in the table ? thanks for that mate, really appreciate the help ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 11:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/246 "2018-05-02T23:02:26Z")
Well, I see a very small handfull of players posting here in support of keeping the original intent of Mutaplasmids in the game. Gotta say I am opposed to the RNG aspect of it. As it is right now, there’s too many variables and combinations of mutated stats which will only break the current meta line up of existing modules. The idea of having new items to shake up the game is fine, like the Ballistic Control Systems that were dropping in ‘The Hunt’ event. The whole idea of mutating an item is fine, it just needs to be a specific set of attribute stats with the RNG aspect only affecting the chance of a successful mutation. Years ago everyone was worried about MT’s being put into the game, CCP said they would never do that. Then it was implemented and players were all worried about P2W with gold ammo. CCP said it would only be cosmetic items. Then skill extractors and injectors were implemented, opening the door to P2W. Now we have magic ‘Mutaplasmids’ enchantments and regardless if it’s a 100 to 1 long shot chance, it now turns the game into P2W. You don’t have to be a NS Alliance member to take advantage of it, anyone with a Credit Card can buy a bunch of PLEX, sell it in-game, buy the required stuff and even if it takes a lot of time to do it, eventually it will be ‘Presto’, you have God Mode ship fits. ---
**Author:** ![Tas\_Nok](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tas_nok/32/19172_2.png) [@Tas\_Nok](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tas_Nok)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 11:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/247 "2018-05-02T23:53:33Z")
As I’ve experienced, if you overstay the 20m limit you don’t get ejected, your ship and pod are crushed and you wake up in your medical clone. Not entirely sure if this is intended as Eve has quite a few players with unstable-unreliable connections, so not sure how they’re gonna deal with those ---
**Author:** ![Cypherous](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cypherous/32/499883_2.png) [@Cypherous](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cypherous)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 12:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/248 "2018-05-03T00:00:42Z")
> [@Tas\_Nok](#): > > As I’ve experienced, if you overstay the 20m limit you don’t get ejected, your ship and pod are crushed and you wake up in your medical clone. Not entirely sure if this is intended as Eve has quite a few players with unstable-unreliable connections, so not sure how they’re gonna deal with those The same way they do now, hope people don’t DC, if you DC in null your ship stays in space long enough to be probed out and destroyed anyway, sure its going to suck if its a players connection that caused the DC but without letting them explode you’re opening up the system to be exploited as a “get out of jail free” card ---
**Author:** ![Bouh\_Revetoile](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bouh_revetoile/32/68319_2.png) [@Bouh\_Revetoile](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bouh_Revetoile)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 7:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/249 "2018-05-03T07:11:51Z")
> [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > One example for smaller fleets would be fitting constraints on propulsion mods. Lowering the PG of Afterburners just a bit can make fits possible that weren’t before or can make existing overprop fits stronger. The rest of the stats should not be total ■■■■, so you need a number of rolls, but for a medium sized gang that’s going to be acceptable. Good, a practical example ! Look at the stats of mutaplasmids for MWD : - fitting cost is biased toward larger fitting, which means you’ll only have about a tenth of your mutated modules that will have better fitting (understand not worse), and in these probably 2% will have significantly better fitting ; - _half_ of them will have a lower velocity. Excellent ! You mutated your T2 MWD and just got a meta MWD ! Great ! And I’m not even talking about sig bloom or activation cost ! So, in practice, if you want a better MWD, you need to care about the other stats, which will have you roll through 700 mutations in order to get ONE MWD that has better fitting AND is better than a meta MWD. Expect the operation to cost you several billion isks. Yes, for only ONE MWD. But of course as no one here has any basic understanding of statistics I’m talking to brick walls. So let me phrase it more simply : **mutaplasmids are far more expensive than officer modules** So basicaly **if you plan on acquiring more than one good module you would better plan on buying DED or officer stuff** Consequence : anything that is not broken by DED/officer stuff cannot be broken by mutaplasmids. I would very much like to see what where the original numbers, but I’m pretty sure they were as reasonable as these. ---
**Author:** ![Bouh\_Revetoile](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bouh_revetoile/32/68319_2.png) [@Bouh\_Revetoile](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bouh_Revetoile)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 7:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/250 "2018-05-03T07:30:04Z")
> [@krakpipe](#): > > I’ve just picked randomly a heavy neut, to see if the “not even as good as faction” idea is true (regarding this mod only)…it isn’t. > > As you progress along heavy neuts in terms of meta, only one factor - range - improves. the others stay the same or get worse (fitting). While the abyssal cannot beat officer range (it gets within a hair of it) it can beat true sansha range by a long way, and it beats officer by a country mile in all three other factors, activation cost, amount neuted and PG fitting. > > 30% more energy neuted possible than officer, almost a third less fitting cost and 40% less activation cost all possible with these “nerfed” stats. > > Obviously the entire lot needs going through, but in the 2 examples I have looked at. Heavy neuts and Large MWDs, it’s possible to get mods that are far superior to officer, let alone lower tier faction There will only be 1 in 100 000 000. Bravo, this thing wlil be rarer than AT ships. Like AT ships will actually be common compared to these modules. To give an idea, that is ten times lower chances than winning the jackpot of the lottery. PS : another funny comparison is the chances to be struck by a meteorite that were evaluated to 1 on 1 600 000. A hundred times MORE than the chances to get this perfect module. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 8:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/251 "2018-05-03T08:16:00Z")
Only hope is in that this P2W will be really expensive here. I think game direction is fixed already and our complainin will change very little. They will come up with more stuff later if initially they will meet too strong opposition from playerbase. EAification. ---
**Author:** ![krakpipe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/krakpipe/32/61065_2.png) [@krakpipe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/krakpipe)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 1:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/252 "2018-05-03T13:02:08Z")
> [@Bouh\_Revetoile](#): > > There will only be 1 in 100 000 000. Bravo, this thing wlil be rarer than AT ships. Like AT ships will actually be common compared to these modules. > > To give an idea, that is ten times lower chances than winning the jackpot of the lottery. > > PS : another funny comparison is the chances to be struck by a meteorite that were evaluated to 1 on 1 600 000. A hundred times MORE than the chances to get this perfect module. Who’s talking about the perfect module ? I was pointing out all the better than officer modules that will be possible with far less than perfect rolls. Any positive roll on a heavy neut for amount neutralized - better than officer Any positive roll on a heavy neut for activation cost - better than officer Any positive roll and even some negative rolls on fitting cost - better than officer The only stat it struggles with is range, but since all the other stats are a coin toss for usable to very good results I’d say it’s considerably better than 1 in a 100 000 000 shot at getting a heavy neut that is better than the officer version, even if you do care about range. How can you mouth off about understanding statistics and not understand this - it’s not even difficult ---
**Author:** ![Scath\_Bererund](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scath_bererund/32/27174_2.png) [@Scath\_Bererund](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scath_Bererund)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 3:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/253 "2018-05-03T15:10:07Z")
Anyone else smelling a paywall with this new “crystalline isogen” stuff? ---
**Author:** ![Dom\_Arkaral](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dom_arkaral/32/462611_2.png) [@Dom\_Arkaral](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dom_Arkaral)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 3:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/254 "2018-05-03T15:13:12Z")
Any clue where we’re supposed to get the stuff? I saw that when I looked at manufacturing and asked myself questions lol ---
**Author:** ![Bouh\_Revetoile](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bouh_revetoile/32/68319_2.png) [@Bouh\_Revetoile](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bouh_Revetoile)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 3:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/255 "2018-05-03T15:14:29Z")
Checking on your numbers I can’t find what you’re saying on neutralizers, but maybe Osmium is not up to date on module statistics ? Anyway : > [@krakpipe](#): > > Any positive roll on a heavy neut for amount neutralized - better than officer > > Any positive roll on a heavy neut for activation cost - better than officer > > Any positive roll and even some negative rolls on fitting cost - better than officer You are not honest here, and you even admit it after : not any positive roll will be good. For example, any positive roll on activation cost can be crippled by poor roll on neut amount or range. You also need to consider that any average roll on PG (1,15 is the average for fitting) will through PG at 2600. An average roll on CPU make it harder to fit than any other neutralizer. So if you don’t need the perfect roll you won’t be satisfied with an average one because average roll will mean bad module, eventhough an officer module might not neutralize as much in itself. But let’s consider you want to make this crazily average neutralier. Even if we consider a flat distribution for rolls, simply to get an average neutralizer, you need 35 rolls on average (I only ensure cap usage is not higher, neut amount is higher than officer, fitting is not too high). That means your module will cost you 230Misk only for the T2 neutralizers. As long you pay any of the mutaplasmid (the rarest ones), you will pay as much as a A-Type neutralizer. Same price, higher neut amount, crap range, crap fitting. Tell me please how broken this is when EVE survived officer modules so many years ? BTW was can also make assumtions on the price of mutaplasmids. Espetialy the rarest ones. They will be available in the rarest sites, and no one can do more than 4 of these each hour. A carebear with any pride won’t farm this thing unless it earns more than 200Misks/h. It depends then on the number of drops per site. If only one unstable mutaplasmid drop each site, that’s 50M. Of course the market will decide, but players will then decide to the work or not, and as this will be the main wealth of these sites… Even if you get 4 of the best mutaplasmids each site that’s still 12Misks each. If you need 35 of them for a better than bad module that is 420Misks on tops of the T2 modules. And the time required to get tham can increase the rarity considering how many you need to craft something decent. ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Engraver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dark_engraver/32/45178_2.png) [@Dark\_Engraver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dark_Engraver)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 3:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/256 "2018-05-03T15:26:06Z")
Don’t worry about our isk in ns m8 we still get plenty even without mutalings ---
**Author:** ![zluq\_zabaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zluq_zabaa/32/19011_2.png) [@zluq\_zabaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zluq_zabaa)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 10:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/257 "2018-05-03T22:07:37Z")
> [@krakpipe](#): > > 30% more energy neuted possible than officer, almost a third less fitting cost and 40% less activation cost all possible with these “nerfed” stats. Thanks for doing the work to provide a sample. I think you made some mistakes in the numbers though they seem to be really changing the image here. Neut-Amount: Vizan’s neuts 650GJ, not 600. Still, a somewhat good roll on a T2 Heavy Neut will go beyond that. And range, I’m not sure which numbers you base that on. The most extreme roll will give the MT2 28km Optimal + 10 Falloff, while Vizan’s has 30km Optimal + 15 Falloff. Again you compare it to a perfect roll, which is very unlikely and the raw materials to roll such a T2 Neut, might be as high as its Officer equivalent if not higher. 1 T2 currently costs 6.9 Million. 1 Vizan’s 1.7 Billion. That’s 250 T2 for 1 Officer give or take. You take the best possible results for Amount, Range and Cap-Cost. It seems PG in direct comparison to the Officer mod would be acceptable if it doesn’t rise beyond +15% and CPU would be okay if it stays like it is. You already only have a 15% chance that your CPU doesn’t rise and your PG only rises to a max of 2600mw. Range, Amount and Cap-Cost have at best a 1% chance each to land the best result. Combined, the latter three have at best a chance of 0.000001 or 1 in a Million. Now combined with CPU/PG you roughly have a chance of 1 in 6.66 Million rolls 😉 And that’s not even the Table you posted with the perfect PG. Let’s assume you get lucky after half of these rolls. We’ve established that you can buy 1 Vizan’s for 250 T2 Heavy Neuts. Alas, to roll the stats you’ve mentioned, you’d need to roll 3.33 Million T2 on average. I **t will cost you roughly 23 Trillion ISK at the current prices and that’s assuming you get 3.33 Million of the high tier Mutaplasmids for free.** I hope I was able to take away a bit of the panic that the “possible” range of improvements seem to inflict in people. TL;DR Getting perfect or really only very good rolls IS HIGHLY UNLIKELY. If you want Offcier mod stats, you are better off buying an Officer Module. ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Engraver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dark_engraver/32/45178_2.png) [@Dark\_Engraver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dark_Engraver)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 3:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/258 "2018-05-04T03:06:49Z")
I’ve rolled at least 200 unstable mutaplasmids(prob more 200 might be low end) only got one module I would deem okish those mutaplasmids came out of tier5s which are a damn scary place to farm sometimes and for me at least doing 10 or so in a row leads to fatigue and errors in judgement or piloting(so you can forget easy farming of high tier mutaplasmids by the looks of the sites in tier5 you’ll be way happier with the ship bpcs) ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 5:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/259 "2018-05-04T05:18:18Z")
> [@Dark\_Engraver](#): > > I’ve rolled at least 200 unstable mutaplasmids(prob more 200 might be low end) only got one module I would deem okish those mutaplasmids came out of tier5s which are a damn scary place to farm sometimes and for me at least doing 10 or so in a row leads to fatigue and errors in judgement or piloting(so you can forget easy farming of high tier mutaplasmids by the looks of the sites in tier5 you’ll be way happier with the ship bpcs) Whats was the mutaplasmid drop rate? ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Engraver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dark_engraver/32/45178_2.png) [@Dark\_Engraver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dark_Engraver)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 5:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/260 "2018-05-04T05:45:53Z")
Average about 5 but some sites would be 2 others 6 kind of random [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843.md?page=12) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843.md?page=14)