# Discussion about "Into the Abyss" update **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [April 15, 2018, 12:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843 "2018-04-15T12:09:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![zluq\_zabaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zluq_zabaa/32/19011_2.png) [@zluq\_zabaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zluq_zabaa)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 1:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/423 "2018-05-06T13:37:29Z")
You try to avoid explaining your claim upon you build everything else. I ask you for the last time: > [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > Can you offer a few examples of where creating a MT2 with DED/LP module base stats will be cheaper than buying the DED/LP right away? Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 1:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/424 "2018-05-06T13:39:44Z")
> [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > > > And that right there is the problem, CCP places a higher value on other social platforms over their own Official Forums. > > While I agree with you, it also has to do with the kind of threads we find here. This one is a prime example. On reddit Salvos would have already been banned a hundred times for repeating the same post. It does not happen here and so the Forums are filled to the brim with threads which continue for another 200 - 300 posts after everything has already been discussed ad nauseam. > > CCP would need serious manpower and they’d absolutely need to enforce very strict posting rules to make these forums even useable for the average player. Um, just exactly how long have you been a member of this Eve Community? The last forums had a hell of a lot more people posting in it. I’ve been a contributing member of this community for 10 years and I can say for a matter of fact that what killed the Official Forums was CCP themselves, just like they did to Evelopedia, to Eve Voice, to the In-game Browser, to the Jukebox, etc. The crux of it, CCP is either just lazy and or incompetent. For a long time CCP encouraged a toxic game environment that manifested itself in the forums which they thought was great, all the way up till it bit them in the arse. Then they tried to shut it down with an iron fist by mass locking threads and banning players. Then came the stalemate silent treatment followed by a steady drop in player numbers. Then a few CCP Devs and their Fanboys thought they could get more players into Eve if they started posting on various Social Media Platforms. In their haste to do so, they persuaded others to do the same and basically caused a mass exodus. They all jumped on that boat and sailed off into the Social Sunset, forsaking their own homeland. Anyway, enough of that. I blame ex CCP Soundwave & Co for it. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 1:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/425 "2018-05-06T13:42:39Z")
> [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > I ask you for the last time: > > Can you offer a few examples of where creating a MT2 with DED/LP module base stats will be cheaper than buying the DED/LP right away? Thanks. Yes, I can. As soon as you answer that you will prefer to apply it to T2s, rather than DED/LP modules. You have ignored those questions at least 5 times now. And we all know that is what you and Player NS will do. Not only does it cause T2 sink, thus raising T2 prices, it also creates modules that mean you dont have to buy DED/LP modules, thus replacing a segment of that market with T2 production (as mutated after-market). Its really funny how you try to dance around that obvious elephant in the room, as if it wasnt there. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 1:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/426 "2018-05-06T13:45:40Z")
Why do YOU want mutaplasmids to work on T2? ---
**Author:** ![zluq\_zabaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zluq_zabaa/32/19011_2.png) [@zluq\_zabaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zluq_zabaa)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 2:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/427 "2018-05-06T14:04:21Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Yes, I can. Then do it now please. Give us examples of where MT2 will be cheaper than DED/LP modules with equal stats. > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > As soon as you answer that you will prefer to apply it to T2s, rather than DED/LP modules. I think Mutaplasmids should be applicable to all kinds of modules, T1, T2 and DED/LP. T1 because they are cheap and new players can find Meta modules and lower tier Mutaplasmids with investing only their time, no need to have deep pockets. T2 because they are the next step for most modules, although not always the best option for a fit. Many ships have PG/CPU restrictions that would not allow a complete T2 fit - look at the Ashimmu as one example. T2 modules offer an upgrade over T1 and are still affordable by most players, especially those who will be running the Triglavian Sites. Thus, these players should have the opportunity to experiment/work over their own fits and possibly find new ways of doing PVE/PVP. Lowering PG/CPU with the help of Mutaplasmids will help players upgrade some fits from Meta T1 to Muta T2. It will also allow players to be less predictable and therefor making PVP more interesting. Faction/LP because excluding them may sound reasonable from a balance point of view - but a perfect roll is unlikely and thus I think it is perfectly acceptable to not exclude them. I think people will not commonly use Mutaplasmids on them, because Faction/LP items are already used carefully on PVP fits due to their prizetag. Then there are meta-reasons which count for all types T1,T2,Faction, like an increased Neut amount, which is something we currently don’t have as a step from one class to the other. Web strength as well. > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > And we all know that is what you and Player NS will do. I am not player NS, I live in Lowsec. We lost due to the moon mining changes. All major T2 is coming from Nullsec now. I will use Mutaplasmids to experiment with many of the fits I have. That’s all and I hope it will be fun. I would not use them if they were Faction-only. Although I could probably afford it, I am not personally at a point where I think uber-blinging my fits will help me become better or more succesful at PVP. Now, I explained it again. Would you do me and others the courtesy and explain your claims. My question to you was: > [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > I will quote it again for you. You claimed over and over since the beginning of this thread that MT2 will eat into the DED/LP market. Give me and others some examples to understand your argument. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 2:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/428 "2018-05-06T14:52:50Z")
> [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > Then there are meta-reasons which count for all types T1,T2,Faction, like an increased Neut amount, which is something we currently don’t have as a step from one class to the other. Web strength as well. Mutaplasmids will not work on Neuts or Webs, in this expansion. > [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > T2 because they are the next step for most modules Which is exactly why we shouldnt fk with T2 balance. > [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > You claimed over and over since the beginning of this thread that MT2 will eat into the DED/LP market. Give me and others some examples to understand your argument. Thanks. How could it not? Before mutaplasmids, if you wanted a better module, you had to go to the DED/LP market. If T2 modules can be mutated, chances are you will find what you want in the mutated T2 market, rather than buying a DED/LP module, as you would now. In otherwords: T2 market goes up. DED/LP market goes down. ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Engraver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dark_engraver/32/45178_2.png) [@Dark\_Engraver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dark_Engraver)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 2:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/429 "2018-05-06T14:58:48Z")
It’s funny to see you people argue over mutalings or whatever you’ll prob see most thingies come out of t1 t2 t3 which are easy to farm beyond that t4 is so so for average players now and tier5 is like being given a spoon and told to use it to kill a tiger shark. ---
**Author:** ![zluq\_zabaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zluq_zabaa/32/19011_2.png) [@zluq\_zabaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zluq_zabaa)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 2:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/430 "2018-05-06T14:59:46Z")
> [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > Can you offer a few examples of where creating a MT2 with DED/LP module base stats will be cheaper than buying the DED/LP right away? Thanks. @Salvos_Rhoska can you answer this or not? > [@Dark\_Engraver](#): > > It’s funny to see you people argue over mutalings or whatever you’ll prob see most thingies come out of t1 t2 t3 which are easy to farm beyond that t4 is so so for average players now and tier5 is like being given a spoon and told to use it to kill a tiger shark. Very true. Tier 5 is pretty hard now with the Triglavians. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 3:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/431 "2018-05-06T15:01:58Z")
> [@Dark\_Engraver](#): > > It’s funny to see you people argue over mutalings or whatever you’ll prob see most thingies come out of t1 t2 t3 which are easy to farm beyond that t4 is so so for average players now and tier5 is like being given a spoon and told to use it to kill a tiger shark. Im aware of that, but that will also be represented in chance of a beneficial/sellable mutation (rather than a brick). Most of the market will want the cheaper, less stat changing mutaplasmids. That is why excluding T2 is so important. The L4-5 content will provide BPCs and higher end mytaplasmids, for a specific market. ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Engraver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dark_engraver/32/45178_2.png) [@Dark\_Engraver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dark_Engraver)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 3:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/432 "2018-05-06T15:02:39Z")
Yes the trigs pushed the fit for t5 from t2/faction fit with max skills to faction/ded fit plus pirate imp plus drug and max skills ---
**Author:** ![Xebov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xebov/32/99847_2.png) [@Xebov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xebov)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 3:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/433 "2018-05-06T15:04:15Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > You just described the impact, yourself. > > The problem is not just the impact on T2, its also the impact on DED/LP markets. > > Do we: > > A) Want T2 modules sunk off the market/bricked to produce mutated T2 modules? > > B) Want mutated T2 modules stepping on the DED/LP module market? There is no impact. If the demand for items gets bigger ppl will simply build more and the market will stabilize itself. It will also not step into the DED/LP market. Some of tehse items are already so much betetr than T2 that its doubtable that mutating T2 will get you anywhere near. > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Such as? Alot of items have no Deadspace version as the complexes drop faction items instead that are LP store items for the pirate factions. Heres a short list of items that only exist as T1/T2: - large remote shield/armor/cap - all sizes remote hull - missile guidance computers - cap flux coils - alot of the scanning equipment - several categories in ewar ---
**Author:** ![Xebov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xebov/32/99847_2.png) [@Xebov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xebov)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 3:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/434 "2018-05-06T15:05:48Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > That is why excluding T2 is so important. You still have to provide a reason why. And no T2 items getting a bit more demand is no good reason, the market is not actually short on these items. ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Engraver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dark_engraver/32/45178_2.png) [@Dark\_Engraver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dark_Engraver)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 3:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/435 "2018-05-06T15:07:50Z")
There’s ded rr to some extent small and med ded rr mods they great too for maximised logi fits or logi frigs ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 3:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/436 "2018-05-06T15:08:03Z")
> [@Xebov](#): > > There is no impact. If the demand for items gets bigger ppl will simply build more and the market will stabilize itself. It will also not step into the DED/LP market. Some of tehse items are already so much betetr than T2 that its doubtable that mutating T2 will get you anywhere near. This is false. Now, if you want a bling module, you go to DED/LP market. Post-change, you can also go to T2 mutated market, and ignore the DED/LP market, > [@Xebov](#): > > Alot of items have no Deadspace version as the complexes drop faction items instead that are LP store items for the pirate factions. Correct, but those are RNG generated, and modules to which mutaplasmids CANNOT BE APPLIED. Whereas the modules to which mutapladmids can be applied, as T2, can be generated on demand, simply by combining resources in an industry process. ---
**Author:** ![zluq\_zabaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zluq_zabaa/32/19011_2.png) [@zluq\_zabaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zluq_zabaa)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 3:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/437 "2018-05-06T15:08:13Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Mutaplasmids will not work on Neuts or Webs, in this expansion. Source? CCP said they would and it is on SiSi and so on. Can you link where you got that from? > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Correct, but those are RNG generated, and modules to which mutaplasmids CANNOT BE APPLIED. Mutaplasmids are applicable to ALL types of the module group they work for. No disrespect, but did you even do a basic research before involving yourself into the discussion? > [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > Can you offer a few examples of where creating a MT2 with DED/LP module base stats will be cheaper than buying the DED/LP right away? Thanks. You promised you will answer this. Where are the examples? ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 3:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/438 "2018-05-06T15:11:05Z")
> [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > You promised you will answer this. Where are the examples? You never answered, though I asked many times, why you want them to apply to T2. ---
**Author:** ![zluq\_zabaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zluq_zabaa/32/19011_2.png) [@zluq\_zabaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zluq_zabaa)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 3:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/439 "2018-05-06T15:13:04Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Mutaplasmids should not be applicable to Faction/LP/DED items, because that could make them OP. Okay, I think I agree. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 3:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/440 "2018-05-06T15:15:03Z")
> [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > > > Mutaplasmids should not be applicable to Faction/LP/DED items, because that could make them OP. > > Okay, I think I agree. Source quote leads to my post above yours, which does NOT say that. Try again. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 3:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/441 "2018-05-06T15:18:37Z")
ITT: Player NS T2 producers that want “in” on the DED/LP module market: A) Cos they cant control it. B) They have more T2 production than they know what to do with/can sell in a saturated market. So they want people to sink T2, to produce mutated T2, AND they want to mutate their own excess T2 production to eat into the DED/LP module market. ---
**Author:** ![Xebov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xebov/32/99847_2.png) [@Xebov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xebov)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 3:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/442 "2018-05-06T15:20:13Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Now, if you want a bling module, you go to DED/LP market. > > Post-change, you can also go to T2 mutated market, and ignore the DED/LP market, At best this is only true for items where a faction version is only minimal better and only if the mutaplasmids are cheap enought. DED items are in generel vastly better. > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Correct, but those are RNG generated, and modules to which mutaplasmids CANNOT BE APPLIED. I never noticed my LP store gives me RNG items… And your argument is wrong. When they showed the system at the panel at fanfest they mentioned it explicitely that you can add them to faction and DED as well(they even showed it) and they explicitely mentioned that it can get expansive if you have bad luck. I dont know where you gathered your information and im not even sure that you looked into the topic at all. So far you only seem to want less pressure in demand for T2 items and more on LP store items which leads me to the question if you arguments are simply made out of greed as you expect mor eincome this way… [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843.md?page=21) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843.md?page=23)