# Discussion about "Into the Abyss" update **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [April 15, 2018, 12:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843 "2018-04-15T12:09:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 3:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/444 "2018-05-06T15:24:21Z")
I see no reason to allow this for T2 modules. T2 modules are the baseline of EVE balance, once we finally got over tiericide etc. The situation now, is if you want a bling module, you go to the DED/LP market. If T2 modules start getting mutated, it reduces demand on DED/LP markets, while at the same time reducing supply of T2 (as sunk in bricked mutations) , thus raising T2 prices AND eating into the DED/LP market. The only beneficent, is T2 producers. Everyone else gets fked. * * * Much simpler to only allow mutation of DED/LP modules. Thats has no impact on T2. ---
**Author:** ![zluq\_zabaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zluq_zabaa/32/19011_2.png) [@zluq\_zabaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zluq_zabaa)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 3:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/445 "2018-05-06T15:29:00Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > If T2 modules start getting mutated, it reduces demand on DED/LP markets, while at the same time reducing supply of T2 (as sunk in bricked mutations) , thus raising T2 prices AND eating into the DED/LP market. Just that he can’t present a single actual example where Mutated T2 items would ever compete with their DED/LP counterparts both in stats and pricetag. We are discussing a phantom here, something that just doesn’t exist. It makes no sense. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 3:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/446 "2018-05-06T15:30:35Z")
> [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > Just that he can’t present a single actual example where Mutated T2 items would ever compete with their DED/LP counterparts both in stats and pricetag. ■■■■■■■■, Ive explained it at length. Mutated T2 will not only reduce T2 supply, as sink, (in favor of T2 producers), but also replace customers to buy mutated T2 rather than DED/LP modules, as now. T2 mutated modules would, at least, create a semi-market between T2 modules and DED/LP modules. But since T2 modules are sunk to create them, this cannot but benefit ONLY T2 producers, and at the expense of everyone else sourcing the DED/LP market, which has already suffered for years. ---
**Author:** ![Xebov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xebov/32/99847_2.png) [@Xebov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xebov)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 3:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/447 "2018-05-06T15:33:42Z")
2 Problems here: 1.) If the demand should realy raise the marked will regulate itself and in order to be beneficial for T2 Producers you need realy big increase in these items. From what i read from SiSi droprates for mutoplasmids dont suggest that they are high enought to make this happen. 2.) In order to be competeable with the LP market the plasmids need to be cheap enought, again data within the forums dont suggests that. Your argument would only be valid if -\> droprates for plasmids are high and very easy to obtain + bonuses raise T2 items to the level of DED/Faction \<- and so far no data available suggests that there is even the slightest chance. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 3:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/448 "2018-05-06T15:35:52Z")
> [@Xebov](#): > > In order to be competeable with the LP market the plasmids need to be cheap enought, again data within the forums dont suggests that. This returns, again, to the seminal question: **Would people use plasmids on T2 OR DED/LP modules?** My view, is that T2 will be optimal, and espexcially people with surplus T2 will happily brick T2 modules, so as to get in on the DED/LP module market, by replacing it with their own mutated T2 modules. They want to create a market between T2 and DED/LP modules, because they cant reach far enough to take over the DED/LP market. This is an attempt to create a T2.5, where T2 producers can dominate, at the expense of the DED/LP market. ---
**Author:** ![zluq\_zabaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zluq_zabaa/32/19011_2.png) [@zluq\_zabaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zluq_zabaa)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 3:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/449 "2018-05-06T15:42:07Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > They want to create a market between T2 and DED/LP modules, because they cant reach far enough to take over the DED/LP market. Who is “they”? Are “they” behind Mutaplasmids? ---
**Author:** ![Xebov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xebov/32/99847_2.png) [@Xebov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xebov)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 3:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/450 "2018-05-06T15:42:52Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Would people use plasmids on T2 or DED/LP modules? MinMaxing builds. Creating modules that fit a hole and make a fitting working that didnt work before. Trying to build modules that result in a free slot. There are many reasons. > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > They want to create a market between T2 and DED/LP modules, because they cant reach far enough to take over the DED/LP market. So you now shift your argument towards that ppl are to poor to buy from you even if other ppl already told you that droprates dont suggest cheap plasmids. This is a realy poor argumentation. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 3:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/451 "2018-05-06T15:43:02Z")
> [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > > > They want to create a market between T2 and DED/LP modules, because they cant reach far enough to take over the DED/LP market. > > Who is “they”? T2 producers. ---
**Author:** ![Xebov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xebov/32/99847_2.png) [@Xebov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xebov)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 3:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/452 "2018-05-06T15:43:55Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > T2 producers. So the T2 producers lobby made CCP add a system that is solely benefitial to them? Is this what you want to tell me? ---
**Author:** ![zluq\_zabaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zluq_zabaa/32/19011_2.png) [@zluq\_zabaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zluq_zabaa)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 3:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/453 "2018-05-06T15:43:56Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > T2 producers. So wait, let me get this straight. Are you saying T2 producers are behind the introduction of Mutaplasmids to the game? ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 3:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/454 "2018-05-06T15:44:12Z")
> [@Xebov](#): > > MinMaxing builds. You misread my question. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 3:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/455 "2018-05-06T15:47:00Z")
> [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > > > T2 producers. > > So wait, let me get this straight. Are you saying T2 producers are behind the introduction of Mutaplasmids to the game? Possibly since they stand to benefit most. In any case, whether they are “behind it” or not, they stand to win-win from both more sunk T2 modules on the market, and their homegrown mutated T2 modules eating into the DED/LP market, as a T2.5 market. ---
**Author:** ![Xebov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xebov/32/99847_2.png) [@Xebov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xebov)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 3:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/456 "2018-05-06T15:50:41Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > You misread my question. Im sorry. They will use them on what ever they want to achieve whatever they need. Its a free system and ppl are free to do their own choices. > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > n any case, whether they are “behind it” or not, they stand to win-win from both more sunk T2 modules on the market, and their homegrown mutated T2 modules eating into the DED/LP market, as a T2.5 market. And this still only in case mutoplasmids are cheap enought and the demand gets high enought. And i tell you again, no data available remotely suggests this. ---
**Author:** ![zluq\_zabaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zluq_zabaa/32/19011_2.png) [@zluq\_zabaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zluq_zabaa)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 3:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/457 "2018-05-06T15:53:51Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Possibly since they stand to benefit most. And I always thought this entire thing was CCPs late and somewhat shortcoming reaction to a series of Forum Posts that I made a while ago about T2 Invention not really being invention and that the entire realm of modules, production and “science” in EVE is too spreadsheetable/solveable. Anyway, this thread starts to seriously suck. Too much conspiracy theories, too little discussion about facts. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 3:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/458 "2018-05-06T15:56:14Z")
> [@Xebov](#): > > And this still only in case mutoplasmids are cheap enought and the demand gets high enought. And i tell you again, no data available remotely suggests this. This is a catch 22. On the one hand, mutids may be so crap that nobody buys or applies them. Then the expansion fell on it is face. But on the otherhand, we have to ask where is the majority more likely to use them on. If its on T2, T2 will sink from the market (increasing T2 price), and those mutated modules will replace sales from the DED/LP module market, as a new T2.5 market. T2 market will only benefit from that, as its their modules which are being used to supply it by bricking them inorder to find a sellable one. Meanwhile DED/LP market will go down the drain. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 4:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/459 "2018-05-06T16:01:07Z")
> [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > And I always thought this entire thing was CCPs late and somewhat shortcoming reaction to a series of Forum Posts that I made a while ago about T2 Invention not really being invention and that the entire realm of modules, production and “science” in EVE is too spreadsheetable/solveable. You thought wrong, or rather, bought into the lie. If mutids can be applied to T2 modules, I promise you, only the T2 producers will benefit, at the expense of everyone else. T2 market will go up. DED/LP market will go down. Is that what you want? ---
**Author:** ![zluq\_zabaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zluq_zabaa/32/19011_2.png) [@zluq\_zabaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zluq_zabaa)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 4:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/460 "2018-05-06T16:10:44Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > T2 market will go up. > > DED/LP market will go down. > > Is that what you want? I don’t care. Neither matters to me. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 4:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/461 "2018-05-06T16:12:46Z")
> [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > > > T2 market will go up. > > > > DED/LP market will go down. > > > > Is that what you want? > > I don’t care. Neither matters to me. If you dont care, you can leave the thread. That you dont care, doesnt change the prognosis of this change, as T2 producers benefitting hand over fist from this, while the DED/LP module market sourcers take a huge hit. ---
**Author:** ![zluq\_zabaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zluq_zabaa/32/19011_2.png) [@zluq\_zabaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zluq_zabaa)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 4:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/462 "2018-05-06T16:20:24Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > If you dont care, you can leave the thread. You can take your censorship and put it where the sun doesn’t shine (in your head). This thread is about the “Into the Abyss” update. You try to hijack it with your bs. I will change my answer to the above however. If it means that you suffer, I hope that Goons win, you toxic piece of waste. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 4:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/463 "2018-05-06T16:25:18Z")
> [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > You can take your censorship and put it where the sun doesn’t shine (in your head). This from the guy that tried to tell others to ignore me, tried to shut me up via threats of moderation, and insulted me repeatedly. > [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > This thread is about the “Into the Abyss” update. You try to hijack it with your bs. I have been consistently ontopic on exactly the update, voicing my concerns on it. I didnt “hi-jack” it. These are serious concerns shared by many. > [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > I will change my answer to the above however. If it means that you suffer, I hope that Goons win, you toxic piece of waste. Standard dont let the door hit you on your toxic buttocks while you exit. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843.md?page=22) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843.md?page=24)