# Discussion about "Into the Abyss" update **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [April 15, 2018, 12:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843 "2018-04-15T12:09:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![Loreline\_Farcloud](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/loreline_farcloud/32/69487_2.png) [@Loreline\_Farcloud](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Loreline_Farcloud)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 2:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/584 "2018-05-09T14:22:28Z")
> [@Loreline\_Farcloud](#): > > Do you think we will see the return of remote repping small gangs with these ships? Certainly, as that will relieve the need for local reps/plates which are a big power draw, and therefor allowing much better gank/resists for survivability. A cap chain would also alleviate the cap issues. These ships have strong potential. The only slight downside is the slow ramp up of dps (low initial dps) - a great solution to this would be a higher initial dps, that ramps up at decreasing percentages as it cycles so still ramping up to an additional 50% but faster. That would likely be difficult to code into the weapon system. As it is disintigrators require 20 cycles to reach max dps which is an awful lot of cycles given an average rate of fire of around 3.2s with a medium disintegrator. ---
**Author:** ![Bouh\_Revetoile](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bouh_revetoile/32/68319_2.png) [@Bouh\_Revetoile](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bouh_Revetoile)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 2:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/585 "2018-05-09T14:25:31Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Boil it down into a list. I’m not your dog. If you can’t read a page of words you have nothing to do on a forum and I’m not here to babysit you. > [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > The focus here would be on an area. For MWD/AB that will not work because different speed would suck, Tackle modules are not something that every ship fits, but for Shield Extenders, I could see that happening. Maybe Plates too, although the mass would make that more hariy. Does that make sense? As long as module stats 1,2,3 and 4 are each in the range of (x,y) the module can count as: success. I agree with this, also I think it will be limited to small gang. Anything beyond 20 people would be way too much work to prefer it over faction stuff. People usualy have more isks than time for fleet logistics. The triglavian ships and modules drop means a lot though. It means cheap mutaplasmids (although I still think the rarest ones will still be rather expensive when you need bulks of them. But where can we see the stats of the ships and modules ? Anywhere else than Sisi ? ---
**Author:** ![Loreline\_Farcloud](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/loreline_farcloud/32/69487_2.png) [@Loreline\_Farcloud](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Loreline_Farcloud)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 2:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/587 "2018-05-09T14:28:17Z")
> [@Bouh\_Revetoile](#): > > But where can we see the stats of the ships and modules ? Anywhere else than Sisi ? no. Also using the “show info” option does not provide the updated fitting space. Use the fitting tool on these modules to see the current fitting space. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 2:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/588 "2018-05-09T14:29:57Z")
Note the timestamps of when suddenly a certain group of vested interest players started spamming the thread, nominally agreeing with each other in all attempts to dissuade any critique of the impending changes, so they can benefit from them most. ---
**Author:** ![zluq\_zabaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zluq_zabaa/32/19011_2.png) [@zluq\_zabaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zluq_zabaa)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 2:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/589 "2018-05-09T14:43:36Z")
> [@Loreline\_Farcloud](#): > > Sadly the fitting room is still a little tight preventing medium neuts/nos being fitted, but even small nos/neuts work well to add cap stability if fitting with an empty high slot between them and the disintegrator (necessary due to the overheating benefit (and lack of real heat damage) of disintrigrators. I haven’t looked at the BS since CCP Rise announced more PG. But yeah, fitting will be an issue. I think these ships, as versatile as they are, will need to be a bit tight. I’m not sure how the extreme need for range control will balance with the high base speed, good tracking, but it sure is super interesting. We may see small gangs of these ships with each of them taking a different role, despite using the same hull. > [@Loreline\_Farcloud](#): > > They seem quite suited to running the abyssal sites and I feel we shall seem some inventive fits for the triglavian ships using mutaplasmids to alleviate the slightly tight fitting space. Ah, interesting, I didn’t try them out in the sites yet. > [@Loreline\_Farcloud](#): > > The only slight downside is the slow ramp up of dps (low initial dps) - a great solution to this would be a higher initial dps, that ramps up at decreasing percentages as it cycles so still ramping up to an additional 50% but faster. That would likely be difficult to code into the weapon system. As it is disintigrators require 20 cycles to reach max dps which is an awful lot of cycles given an average rate of fire of around 3.2s with a medium disintegrator. The slow ramp up of dps could actually be a huge issue. Tracking Disruptors or even Damps could efficiently shut down any attempt at flying them at kite-range. You’d have to account for the possiblity to be optimal range disrupted at any point and effectively would have to stay closer than 50% of your optimal at all times. One way to deal with that could be to allow ammo change while the weapon is cycling, but I guess that would bring a lot of trouble for devs. > [@Bouh\_Revetoile](#): > > I’m not your dog. If you can’t read a page of words you have nothing to do on a forum and I’m not here to babysit you. Burned! 😃 > [@Bouh\_Revetoile](#): > > I agree with this, also I think it will be limited to small gang. Anything beyond 20 people would be way too much work to prefer it over faction stuff. People usualy have more isks than time for fleet logistics. Yeah. Opportunity costs for these will be too high to make them a good choice for large fleets. Still curious if from time to time someone will surprise us with a 200 man fleet that no one would have thought is possible. One can dream 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Loreline\_Farcloud](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/loreline_farcloud/32/69487_2.png) [@Loreline\_Farcloud](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Loreline_Farcloud)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 2:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/590 "2018-05-09T14:47:50Z")
> [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > The slow ramp up of dps could actually be a huge issue. Tracking Disruptors or even Damps could efficiently shut down any attempt at flying them at kite-range. You’d have to account for the possiblity to be optimal range disrupted at any point and effectively would have to stay closer than 50% of your optimal at all times. Exactly! TD’s are being used heavily in abyssal sites to combat triglavian npc’s by resetting their damage potential as they have the potential to be utter can-openers and blowing your tank wide open. And this is possibly a built in counter! > [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > One way to deal with that could be to allow ammo change while the weapon is cycling, but I guess that would bring a lot of trouble for devs. That is a fantastic Idea CCP please look into this (although I understand it may not be possible due to the limits on cycling and ammo changes). ---
**Author:** ![Loreline\_Farcloud](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/loreline_farcloud/32/69487_2.png) [@Loreline\_Farcloud](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Loreline_Farcloud)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 2:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/591 "2018-05-09T14:51:21Z")
> [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > One way to deal with that could be to allow ammo change while the weapon is cycling, but I guess that would bring a lot of trouble for devs. Another way to deal with this would be to scale ramping increase to cycle length so that damage ramps up faster initially with additional ramping benefit tapering off towards max damage. (at least on the demavik and vedmak which don’t receive rate of fire bonus in their skill bonus. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 3:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/592 "2018-05-09T15:24:03Z")
Now these Player NS lobbyists want to improve the Trig ships and their weapon system. ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 3:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/593 "2018-05-09T15:30:30Z")
> [@Fluffy\_Moe](#): > > Simply put, us players of the past have grown up Bollocks. The remaining number of early players is too small to care about. If you want a quciky … go play mario carts. Get away from my EvE! ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 3:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/594 "2018-05-09T15:38:46Z")
Player NS is going to suck the L1 filaments off the market like mad, so they can escalate them to L2-5 in their secure home systems, and farm the hell out of them there. No more waiting for spawns, or looking for them. Just buy stacks of L1 and run them 24/7 in utter safety. ---
**Author:** ![Bouh\_Revetoile](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bouh_revetoile/32/68319_2.png) [@Bouh\_Revetoile](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bouh_Revetoile)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 4:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/599 "2018-05-09T16:36:21Z")
The way you talk about triglavian weapons they look a bit like a mix between turrets and missiles : high tracking so you can’t really miss the ennemy as long as he is in your optimal range ; spool up time means the dps is not very high but the easy application means it’s a reliable dps ; going out of optimal range is a hard counter to the weapon. It looks like a weapon tailored for kiting or to engage ennemies of superior size. Which is potentialy interesting considering that would be a mix of missiles and blasters. ---
**Author:** ![zluq\_zabaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zluq_zabaa/32/19011_2.png) [@zluq\_zabaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zluq_zabaa)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 4:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/600 "2018-05-09T16:53:49Z")
> [@Loreline\_Farcloud](#): > > Another way to deal with this would be to scale ramping increase to cycle length so that damage ramps up faster initially with additional ramping benefit tapering off towards max damage. (at least on the demavik and vedmak which don’t receive rate of fire bonus in their skill bonus. Yeah. Fights on average might otherwise no last long enough to make use of the full damage potential. > [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](#): > > Bollocks. The remaining number of early players is too small to care about. If you want a quciky … go play mario carts. Get away from my EvE! How exactly do you @Nicolai_Serkanner (not Salvas, I don’t want your answer) see Abyssal Deadspace as a quicky? Or in that regard, how would it be more a quicky than running belts once and logging off, logging in for PI only, etc? Maybe I’m not seeing something here. Also, since you don’t have a guaranteed success or item drop and - for those who live in Highsec - higher than normal chance of getting PVP out of it, it’s not a “login 15 minutes to win” kind of mechanic. In the overall politics of EVE, one person, doing one kind of PVE for 15 minutes, has no effect. The long game and the short game do not mutually exclude each other here. > [@Bouh\_Revetoile](#): > > It looks like a weapon tailored for kiting or to engage ennemies of superior size. Which is potentialy interesting considering that would be a mix of missiles and blasters. If kiting, then one seriously needs to consider how easy they are to hard counter with optimal range disruption, as you wrote. Or we might see tracking computer, hell maybe even remote tracking computer chains. These ships could essentially have tracking, cap and repair chains at the same time. Hard to fly, but that could really be one of the strongest small gang cores. ---
**Author:** ![Bouh\_Revetoile](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bouh_revetoile/32/68319_2.png) [@Bouh\_Revetoile](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bouh_Revetoile)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 5:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/602 "2018-05-09T17:05:53Z")
At worst it will be a new kind of garmur. But the scalability of such a weapon is poor : the more you are, the less useful the spoolup become. I think you will quickly be better in a gang of other turrets or missiles kiters. Such weapon is also bad for pure gank, because of the spoolup. That’s why many people have been disdainful about it already. I see it ideal in pvp for solo or very small gang. For pve it depends a lot whether you’ll have many weak oponents or a small number of strong ones. Hum, maybe a squadron of those could be selected to kill fleet commander or to pass through the tank and rep in large fleet fights though. That could potentialy be a revolution in fleet warfare. ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Engraver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dark_engraver/32/45178_2.png) [@Dark\_Engraver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dark_Engraver)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 6:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/603 "2018-05-09T18:30:47Z")
I think the ships will be quite expensive for a long time unless the bpc drops are generous which they aren’t because the ship bpc the isogen part the ammo bpc and ammo parts the weapons or bpcs for weapons and the dmg mods everything comes from these sites.To add to that alot and I mean a heck of alot of players are going to die and keep dying trying these sites especially in bad fits or bad knowledge of the environment etc.It’ll be a bloodbath in abysal space with prob more isk lost than any major nulwar possible. I’ve seen some people call higher tier engagements being similar to burners I never tried burners so wouldn’t know but situational awareness and mechanics like heat management transversal tanking capacitor management and maximising your own transversal to get good hits are a real thing at the moment at least in tier5 ---
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 7:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/604 "2018-05-09T19:12:23Z")
That’s what I’m warning about since the beginning. If too many players die to RNG in these sites all the accociated content will become a niche like burners. Procedural PvE which can’t be “solved” will not work in EvE or piss off players. While solving for me means, reliably not dying with reasonable investment. ---
**Author:** ![zluq\_zabaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zluq_zabaa/32/19011_2.png) [@zluq\_zabaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zluq_zabaa)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 7:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/605 "2018-05-09T19:33:49Z")
But if EVE players have nothing to nag about, they’ll not be happy either. You have 5 tiers and since filaments for tier 2 - 5 only drop from Abyssal Deadspace itself, there is a good chance that people slowly get prepared for what awaits them in tier 5. > [@Tipa\_Riot](#): > > Procedural PvE which can’t be “solved” will not work in EvE or piss off players. While solving for me means, reliably not dying with reasonable investment. The main reason we’ll hear players being pissed off is the suspect timer on exit. In non-highsec people have to account for the possibility that their PVE suddenly becomes PVP. In Highsec that’s normally not the case these days. There are a couple of ways to avoid that, but realistically most of these ways aren’t part of the highsec player mind. Then for the sites themselves, they are not unsolveable in the way you defined the word. Lower tier sites are really easy. I deliberately ran them in t1 shitfits. Mutaplasmids and possibly BPCs will drop there too and I think it fits EVEs other PVE that the higher tier Abyssals will be harder and give you better loot. For Tier 5, at least some of the types will be solveable in your sense, albeit with a very active style of PVE, like @Dark_Engraver described it. The demand for loot from the site will be high enough, unless the Triglavian ships turn out to be meh. ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Engraver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dark_engraver/32/45178_2.png) [@Dark\_Engraver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dark_Engraver)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 7:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/606 "2018-05-09T19:55:38Z")
The engagements are not impossible to solve with experience you can fine tune your playstyle inside another factor tho is doing them fast enough and correctly enough so time isn’t wasted because if your strategy toward a spawn is wrong the timer will kill you not the rats For example room 1 I have a drone swarm I’m in a zealot I got 1 tracking pylon 30km away and a light suppressor 45km away I’d personally go for the suppressor while avoiding the swarm from geting on me and shooting their web drones or ewar drones as I move around. But why did I do this even tho I had a web?Test the sites and you’ll know ---
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 8:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/607 "2018-05-09T20:02:46Z")
Reasonable skill required to survive is good, but I wouldn‘t like situations you can‘t win because of bad luck. I found the tier 1-2 just boring, and the performance on my machine was bad, so I stopped testing. I’m looking forward more to the PvP part on exit. ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Engraver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dark_engraver/32/45178_2.png) [@Dark\_Engraver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dark_Engraver)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 8:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/608 "2018-05-09T20:06:20Z")
I personally won’t do these without backup in the exit system so unless there’s dozens of ppl on my exit beacon in which case ill let abysal space kill me before handing free killmail I’ll be fine ---
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 8:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/609 "2018-05-09T20:09:53Z")
I think there will be enough players going into Abyss while the system is empty …but let’s see, to make that work, enough players need to be bothered to run 4-5 in highsec or else in lower sec space. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843.md?page=28) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843.md?page=30)