# Discussion about "Into the Abyss" update **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [April 15, 2018, 12:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843 "2018-04-15T12:09:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 31
**Author:** ![Jeremiah\_Saken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jeremiah_saken/32/266740_2.png) [@Jeremiah\_Saken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jeremiah_Saken)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2018, 7:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/633 "2018-05-10T19:13:53Z")
> [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > More or less the same in DED sites, but you can’t drop people in there and they’ll see you on d-scan unless you are in a Recon. > > No matter which are of space: people who scan you down, get a guaranteed fight out of it unless you decide to lose ship + pod to rats. You have to actively defend yourself against it, call your friends or come up with something else. > > You are much less safe in these sites than in other PVE sites. wrong, ded sites can be prescanned, they are shown on scanner so anybody entering system already know how many are there in it. AP gates won’t show on scanner so you will have to find them manually with combat scanner probes and only tier 4-5 will give suspect status after leaving. Those will be super safe everywhere. Imagine combat scanning system after system without hints like probe scanner window and with super safe spots made after incursions beacons. I’m playing mouse and cat game almost for 5 years, those would be super safe, nobody will wait in suicide dessies on the exits, it’s easier to camp trade routes. ---
**Author:** ![zluq\_zabaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zluq_zabaa/32/19011_2.png) [@zluq\_zabaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zluq_zabaa)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2018, 7:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/634 "2018-05-10T19:44:48Z")
I’m not sure what your point is with the DED sites, but they are not always pre-scannable. Escalations are not. Also you have to scan them manually, just as you have to scan Abyssal exits. The difference is that you don’t really need to care about wether or not the Ratter sees your probes. In any DED site, the krab might warp off and cloak, if you ■■■■ it up. Same for pre-scanned: if you don’t use a Recon and the krab is using d-scan, will warp off too.(unless you camp the entry) You are not limited in any way, apart from normal sec level regulations, in what ships you wait on the exit. But yeah, I see your point. Most PVPers who play the cat and mouse game get sick of it quickly. It is too easy for krabs to wait it out, to escape, to avoid fighting. That’s why people start to camp gates, because there at least they can minimize the chances of krabs to run away. The new sites are basically this. They are a gatecamp and you decide what you bring. You know there is a time-limit after which a cruiser sized vessel will appear. But, they are effort. The chances to catch someone are greater than in normal sites, but they are still effort. If gatecamping makes you happy and gives you more kills, that’s fine. Anyhow, I think there is one important change that I would like CCP to implement before they go live: Give a timer of X hours to each player who uses a filament in a system. Only after X hours can she or he open another in the same system. If the player wants to perma-krab, then not without moving the ship around between systems. p.s. I’m not against implementing mechanics in which it will be possible to follow the krab into the pocket, if you are also in a cruiser. would be fun. ---
**Author:** ![Jeremiah\_Saken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jeremiah_saken/32/266740_2.png) [@Jeremiah\_Saken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jeremiah_Saken)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2018, 8:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/635 "2018-05-10T20:11:56Z")
> [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > The new sites are basically this. They are a gatecamp and you decide what you bring. You know there is a time-limit after which a cruiser sized vessel will appear. But, they are effort. The chances to catch someone are greater than in normal sites, but they are still effort. If gatecamping makes you happy and gives you more kills, that’s fine. they are not, they have to be find, it’s not the same camping Niarja gates. The prey comes to you not you comes to the prey. > [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > But yeah, I see your point. Most PVPers who play the cat and mouse game get sick of it quickly. It is too easy for krabs to wait it out, to escape, to avoid fighting. no it’s not, recons are here, they made deds impossible to run. Before, if they didn’t catch you they still had the escalation, now they have escalation and KM. > [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > p.s. I’m not against implementing mechanics in which it will be possible to follow the krab into the pocket, if you are also in a cruiser. would be fun. and what is the difference between what we have now? Apart that AP won’t be shown on probe scanner window. if higher tiers are meant to be hard then pve fit won’t stand pvp ganker and pvp ganker won’t leave the AP because of pvp fit. You can’t just warp off from there. ---
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2018, 8:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/636 "2018-05-10T20:36:00Z")
Agree, if there is no hint _and_ people are removed from local, running those will be the combat-PvP-safest activity in entire EvE when undocked. ---
**Author:** ![zluq\_zabaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zluq_zabaa/32/19011_2.png) [@zluq\_zabaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zluq_zabaa)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2018, 8:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/637 "2018-05-10T20:56:02Z")
> [@Tipa\_Riot](#): > > Agree, if there is no hint and people are removed from local, running those will be the combat-PvP-safest activity in entire EvE when undocked. Yeah, removing them from local would not be good. Again, if people prefer their prey to fly through a gate like the roasted chicken into the mouth… all I can say is that the game does not owe anyone kills. Let’s face it: gatecampers won’t hunt ratters anyway, no matter if they are inside Triglavian sites or anything else. > [@Jeremiah\_Saken](#): > > they are not, they have to be find, it’s not the same camping Niarja gates. The prey comes to you not you comes to the prey. Exactly. Enough prey comes to your gate already. People who want other types of PVP will be more interested in the possibility of finding blingy + blinky ratting cruisers on the exit of sites. Yes, they do have to use a combat scanner in order to camp the exit. So what? If that is too much effort for someone, I can only assume that perma-gatecamping burned a serious portion of that someones brain. I mean, that would be the most carebear-thing I’ve ever heard a PVPer say. > [@Jeremiah\_Saken](#): > > no it’s not, recons are here, they made deds impossible to run. Before, if they didn’t catch you they still had the escalation, now they have escalation and KM. Huh, what? Recons made it impossible to run DEDs? Lol. What a bucket of bullsh1t. Ratting is not supposed to be safe, but Recons are certainly something you can deal with. > [@Jeremiah\_Saken](#): > > and what is the difference between what we have now? Apart that AP won’t be shown on probe scanner window. if higher tiers are meant to be hard then pve fit won’t stand pvp ganker and pvp ganker won’t leave the AP because of pvp fit. You can’t just warp off from there. You answer your own question. “Apart that AP won’t be shown on probe scanner window.” Actually, they will, once you start using Combat Scanner Probes and let them run on each warp through a system. Yeah, that’s what I am saying all along. High tier are hard and if you exit, you can be catched. I’m not in highsec so I usually dont give a horseshite about mechanics there, but when you exit higher tiers with suspect timer, people can legally agress you in highsec. Isn’t that good? Isn’t that something so many people asked for? More PVP in Highsec? Also, equal opportunity to make ISK then, right? TL;DR There will be PVP around these sites, if players make it happen. People who are too lazy to run combat scans, are better off camping a gate. ---
**Author:** ![Jeremiah\_Saken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jeremiah_saken/32/266740_2.png) [@Jeremiah\_Saken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jeremiah_Saken)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2018, 10:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/638 "2018-05-10T22:05:33Z")
> [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > Huh, what? Recons made it impossible to run DEDs? Lol. What a bucket of bullsh1t. Ratting is not supposed to be safe, but Recons are certainly something you can deal with. because they don’t show up on dcan, and with prescanned site you won’t stand a chance. Suddenly lachesis land on you and you f\*\*\*\*\*. > [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > You answer your own question. “Apart that AP won’t be shown on probe scanner window.” Actually, they will, once you start using Combat Scanner Probes and let them run on each warp through a system. no they don’t. Unscanned sites are shown on probe scanner window. Something that is not scanned won’t be shown, AP has no local so you don’t know if anybody is in the system to start looking for. It will be very tedious hunting and we don’t know if it will be profitable yet. > [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > TL;DR There will be PVP around these sites, if players make it happen. People who are too lazy to run combat scans, are better off camping a gate. it is not about laziness, it will be just very hard to find that kind of pvp opportuinity. Let’s say you scan the AP exit after very long time of scanning, then someone will appear there, will you risk your hull to gank him? only 4-5 tier will make people suspect. ---
**Author:** ![zluq\_zabaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zluq_zabaa/32/19011_2.png) [@zluq\_zabaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zluq_zabaa)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2018, 11:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/639 "2018-05-10T23:34:12Z")
> [@Jeremiah\_Saken](#): > > because they don’t show up on dcan, and with prescanned site you won’t stand a chance. Suddenly lachesis land on you and you f\*\*\*\*\*. Ok, if that is your experience and you don’t know how to deal with it, I’ll accept it. > [@Jeremiah\_Saken](#): > > it is not about laziness, it will be just very hard to find that kind of pvp opportuinity. Let’s say you scan the AP exit after very long time of scanning, then someone will appear there, will you risk your hull to gank him? only 4-5 tier will make people suspect. Ok, two separate things. First the scanning: do we know the sensor strength of the beacon? I mean at the very least it should be as scannable as a cruiser would normally be. If not, we’ll have to talk to CCP about it. With a decently trained char, you should be able to pin it down in 2-3 runs in an unbonused ship. Maybe a bit more if the system is really large. The problem with them not showing in local is indeed a bit harsh. It means you always need to combat scan and actually hunt them in a new way. Hm, not sure what I think about it, tbh. One the one hand, i think it should be decently risky to run the site, on the other a guaranteed kill with no effort at all makes the game boring. Second, the PVP itself. I don’t live in highsec, so I wouldn’t have to “gank” when hunting, even if the people come out of lower tier sites. In highsec - yeah, ok, sucks for level 1-3. But I guess CCP had to compromise or this thread would be full of people complaining that they can’t have safe PVE in Highsec. I think the compromise is okay. So if people run level 4-5, you can scan them down in time and fight them after they exit. If you - in highsec - want to fight people using other means, just do that. Wardec, ganking with more predictable targets, whatever. This is just an addition to all of that. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 5:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/640 "2018-05-11T05:21:02Z")
@zluq_zabaa Why are you so dead-set on defending this expansion? Whats your angle? ---
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 5:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/641 "2018-05-11T05:41:59Z")
If there is no local, no sig, and you don’t know if the player runs a 4-5 site … then everybody not in anyway safe sov nullsec will run them in highsec, because they are 99,99% safe there. The chance to die to disco or losing against the timer/NPC will be much much higher. No local, no sig can be compensated by throwing probes in every system, but not knowing whether you can actually fight the target will kill the hunting profession and make it perfectly safe for runners. Before people complain, hunting in lowsec will be pointless, because nobody sane would be running them there. This is not EvE. ---
**Author:** ![Jeremiah\_Saken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jeremiah_saken/32/266740_2.png) [@Jeremiah\_Saken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jeremiah_Saken)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 6:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/642 "2018-05-11T06:11:35Z")
> [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > Ok, if that is your experience and you don’t know how to deal with it, I’ll accept it. oh I know how to deal with it, I abadoned the content. Solo players without alt can’t do s\*\*\* about it and I won’t roll an alt because game mechanism is bad. I don’t even know if recon changes were so good for pvp, but in LS every hunter has it. > [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > Second, the PVP itself. I don’t live in highsec, so I wouldn’t have to “gank” when hunting, even if the people come out of lower tier sites. In highsec - yeah, ok, sucks for level 1-3. But I guess CCP had to compromise or this thread would be full of people complaining that they can’t have safe PVE in Highsec. I think the compromise is okay. So if people run level 4-5, you can scan them down in time and fight them after they exit. If you - in highsec - want to fight people using other means, just do that. Wardec, ganking with more predictable targets, whatever. This is just an addition to all of that. all pve is safe in hisec, unless you cross your path with suicide ganker. Never happen to me during 5 year HS pve (maybe not 5 years, I’m not flying exclusively in HS). So there that. Safe HS and after you leave it you have a LS risk abyss. Now imagine another player(s) could enter AP, how exactly pve player should defend? No local means he don’t know how many will come, can’t warp off etc.Gank. People waiting for him at the exit? Gank. He will be alone, we know that, people claiming that friends will be waiting at the exit to protect don’t know what they are talking about, one player have fun while rest playing gate camping? It’s already gank in every pve-pvp encounter. I would show you my KB but I’m to embarassed about my loses. Incoming rats damage in higer DED sites excludes pvp fits. Recons are insanely powerfull in catching explorers. > [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > First the scanning: do we know the sensor strength of the beacon? I mean at the very least it should be as scannable as a cruiser would normally be. If not, we’ll have to talk to CCP about it. > > With a decently trained char, you should be able to pin it down in 2-3 runs in an unbonused ship. Maybe a bit more if the system is really large. > > The problem with them not showing in local is indeed a bit harsh. It means you always need to combat scan and actually hunt them in a new way. Hm, not sure what I think about it, tbh. One the one hand, i think it should be decently risky to run the site, on the other a guaranteed kill with no effort at all makes the game boring. IF the sites will drop decent loot this won’t be problem, everybody will combat scan systems. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 7:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/643 "2018-05-11T07:26:54Z")
The filaments are crap for baiting too. Yes, it can be done, but you lose the “trap” after 15mins. ---
**Author:** ![Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/uriel_the_flame/32/490165_2.png) [@Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Uriel_the_Flame)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 8:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/644 "2018-05-11T08:03:55Z")
Activating Abyss portals of any tier should only be possible in the Jita solar system. 😈 ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 10:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/645 "2018-05-11T10:14:12Z")
> [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > Thanks for your reply. I think you have missed some information, about how these sites work. A rundown: > > You enter in a T1/Faction/T2 Cruiser. No refitting inside. > As soon as you enter, a scannable beacon will appear. This was your point of entry and it will be your point of exit. > You finish 3 rooms in 20(15) minutes. If you are too slow, you lose ship + pod. If you logout, you die. You can’t warp out. > You exit at the beacon. If someone is waiting there for you, they can drop you, kill you, whatever. And if they are introdued this way nobody will run them (the target audience that is) and CCP will listen to the cries of the masses and change it and they _will_ become safe. Mark my words. Or it is another failed attempt like the FOB is/was. ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Engraver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dark_engraver/32/45178_2.png) [@Dark\_Engraver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dark_Engraver)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 10:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/646 "2018-05-11T10:17:55Z")
Ppl will run them because there’s new ships and gear for said ships no matter what Fob was an attempt to kick ppl out of highsec ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 10:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/647 "2018-05-11T10:20:02Z")
Instanced space should NEVER EVER become a part of EvE. It destroys the fundaments of the one shard sandbox. EvE has a certain player type but CCP tries vehemently to attrack a different audience not suited for the single shard sandbox. The result will be more safer space year in year out. ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Engraver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dark_engraver/32/45178_2.png) [@Dark\_Engraver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dark_Engraver)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 10:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/648 "2018-05-11T10:34:24Z")
They are Instanced because they are designed and balanced toward a single player inside allow more and it’s easy If you allowed more game can’t tell if it’s a player looking for a fight or an alt to help with the site ---
**Author:** ![March\_rabbit](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/march_rabbit/32/453160_2.png) [@March\_rabbit](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/March_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 10:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/649 "2018-05-11T10:48:19Z")
> [@Tipa\_Riot](#): > > hunting in lowsec will be pointless, because nobody sane would be running them there. Oh, irony! 😂 ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 10:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/650 "2018-05-11T10:58:40Z")
He meant hunting for Trig pocket runners. And yes, only a fool would run them in LS. ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 10:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/651 "2018-05-11T10:59:45Z")
Is this an argument to allow instanced space? I can’t really tell. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 11:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/652 "2018-05-11T11:00:49Z")
> [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](#): > > Is this an argument to allow instanced space? I dunno who you are referencing, but I agree instanced space/content on demand as filaments offer, is a really bad idea. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843.md?page=30) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843.md?page=32)