# Discussion about "Into the Abyss" update **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [April 15, 2018, 12:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843 "2018-04-15T12:09:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 37
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2018, 10:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/764 "2018-05-16T10:50:36Z")
> [@Loreline\_Farcloud](#): > > you are wrong. instanced pockets by definition must be self-sustaining. which by definition means a replacement rate. The replacement rate is sourced from L1s, and those that either choose to run the whole escalation chain, or sell L filaments off that they dont want to run themselves. > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > Just because you can’t understand the logic does not mean there is no logic. That logic only leads to persons generating indefinite amounts of L filaments, from an an initial stack of L1s. Its not my problem that you are apparently too stupid or emotional to understand why that is. You have shown me nothing but disrespect in this thread, and not even an attempt to READ my posts to see how I have explained it is irrational. I have done so, time and time again. ---
**Author:** ![Loreline\_Farcloud](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/loreline_farcloud/32/69487_2.png) [@Loreline\_Farcloud](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Loreline_Farcloud)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2018, 10:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/765 "2018-05-16T10:53:02Z")
Personal attacks to justify your logic… the fact that you are employing the straw man logical fallacy to defend your logic is well… ironic. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2018, 10:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/766 "2018-05-16T10:54:31Z")
> [@Loreline\_Farcloud](#): > > Personal attacks to justify your logic… the fact that you are employing the straw man logical fallacy to defend your logic is well… ironic. This was addressed to AG, and her posts which warranted them having been justifiably removed by an ISD trying to keep crap like she posted out of this thread. You dont know what you are talking about. She went way out of line, and is attempting to start doing so again. ---
**Author:** ![Loreline\_Farcloud](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/loreline_farcloud/32/69487_2.png) [@Loreline\_Farcloud](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Loreline_Farcloud)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2018, 10:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/767 "2018-05-16T10:55:50Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Its not my problem that you are apparently too stupid or emotional to understand why that is. > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > You dont know what you are talking about. well clearly I do as you are attacking that posters character as a response to justify your reasoning. which is a logical fallacy. Simple. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2018, 10:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/768 "2018-05-16T10:57:04Z")
You completely ignored where I answered your concern regarding the sourcing/replacement of L filaments. Instead you are trying to troll/provoke another escalation of derailment on AGs part, whoms posts where already deleted by an ISD. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2018, 10:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/769 "2018-05-16T10:57:32Z")
Does this show he is too stupid or emotional to understand what is ? ---
**Author:** ![Loreline\_Farcloud](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/loreline_farcloud/32/69487_2.png) [@Loreline\_Farcloud](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Loreline_Farcloud)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2018, 10:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/770 "2018-05-16T10:59:10Z")
No I didn’t. I was simply responding to a different statement. I am not trolling. I am calling you out for your trolling. Subtle difference I know. > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Its not my problem that you are apparently too stupid or emotional to understand why that is If you were in any doubt ^^^ that is trolling. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2018, 11:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/771 "2018-05-16T11:00:00Z")
A linear filament drop model will provide filament replacement to the market. Run as many L1s as far as you want, and sell the L+ filament drops to others that want to take them further. As long as people source L1 to the market, there will be replacement and opportunity to genererate L2-L5 filaments. ---
**Author:** ![Loreline\_Farcloud](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/loreline_farcloud/32/69487_2.png) [@Loreline\_Farcloud](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Loreline_Farcloud)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2018, 11:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/772 "2018-05-16T11:01:52Z")
But at the start L1 aren’t sourced in the market. They will not be seeded on TQ. so justifying a drop rate/pattern based on a false assumption is fallacious. Loot drops random nature means that there will not be a standard 1 for 1 replacement rate of increasing value filaments. you would need at least 1 same/lower filament drop + any additional filaments for a viable replacement rate. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2018, 11:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/773 "2018-05-16T11:05:19Z")
All other PvE content in EVE, is 1 to 1. One Mission. One DED. One Anom. One Escalation. One Expedition. The L1s currently will be sourced from Data Sites. If you want to run exclusively L3 Trig Pockets, buy a stack of L3 filaments from others that ran the L1-2 pockets and sold the L3 filament to you, or run your own stack of L1-L2s through L3, and sell the L4 filaments, so you can buy more L1-3 filaments. That buyer will then run the L4 and either sell the L5 filament, or run that too. ---
**Author:** ![Loreline\_Farcloud](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/loreline_farcloud/32/69487_2.png) [@Loreline\_Farcloud](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Loreline_Farcloud)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2018, 11:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/774 "2018-05-16T11:11:26Z")
Abyssal Pockets differ from standard content however as they are accessed via a loot item - loot drops being random in nature mean that a direct parallel to other eve PvE content cannot be made. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2018, 11:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/775 "2018-05-16T11:15:15Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > All other PvE content in EVE, is 1 to 1. nope. The asteroids don’t need to be complete to repop. You can produce them in a moon. The agents don’t need to be 1 on 1, on the opposite you can accept another mission from another agent, or decline the mission. They are produced ON DEMAND. The only limit is one active mission per agent per character. Your “1 on 1” makes no sense. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2018, 11:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/776 "2018-05-16T11:18:18Z")
> [@Loreline\_Farcloud](#): > > Abyssal Pockets differ from standard content however as they are accessed via a loot item Yes. As L1 filaments from Data sites. And the rest on a 1:1 ratio for completion of each subsequent pocket. If you complete a L1 pocket, you receive a L2 filament. If you activate and complete that, you receive an L3 filament. And so on till you receive no further filament at L5. > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > The only limit is one active mission per agent per character. Yes, as one L1 to L5 progression, per filament. * * * Run the filament progression as far as you want, and sell the resulting filament. Or generate your own filament chains, from L1 or whatever other stack of filaments you buy. If you want to run L3 filaments: - Buy them from others. - Source/generate them yourself by running L1-2 filaments. - Sell the reward L4 filaments to those that want to run those, so you can buy more L1-3 filaments. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2018, 11:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/777 "2018-05-16T11:30:53Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Yes, as one L1 to L5 progression, per filament. That comparison makes no sense. The filament is consumed , the agent is not. I did not think I would have to teach that to you. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2018, 11:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/778 "2018-05-16T11:34:29Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > > > Yes, as one L1 to L5 progression, per filament. > > That comparison makes no sense. The filament is consumed , the agent is not. > I did not think I would have to teach that to you. The filament provides a filament to the next pocket of the next level, upon completion. An Agent does not. The inverse would be that in order to receive an L4 mission from an Agent, you would have to run L1-3 missions first. Obviously this is not the case, nor would that be acceptable. You cant “buy/sell” missions, but you can buy/sell filaments. L1-L2-L3-L4-L5. Run them as you you wish and sell the remainder of filaments, if you wish to not run them. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2018, 11:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/779 "2018-05-16T11:39:39Z")
besides it “MAY” provide a filament, exactly, so your comparison makes no sense. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2018, 11:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/780 "2018-05-16T11:41:06Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > besides it “MAY” provide a filament, exactly, so your comparison makes no sense. In my proposal, it provides a filament to the next L, in each pocket. L1 provides an L2 filament. L2 provides a L3 filament, and so on. I thought that was clear in my linear model. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2018, 11:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/781 "2018-05-16T11:49:24Z")
It is clear that you make comparison between things that are very different without justifying the comparison There is NO consumption of the agent in missions, so you can’t compare mission generation to filaments generation, thus you can’t say “all pve is like this”. PLUS if you take into account the levels of the missions, it is quite the opposite : you need to make a few L1-L2-L3 missions to get access to the L4 agent and then you don’t need to make any more L1-L2-L3, to make an infinite number of missions . So if you WANT to FORCE missions into this comparison, you are still wrong. ---
**Author:** ![March\_rabbit](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/march_rabbit/32/453160_2.png) [@March\_rabbit](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/March_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2018, 12:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/782 "2018-05-16T12:09:15Z")
> [@Dantelion\_Shinoni](#): > > If I only get filaments to the next pocket level, how do I run one if I only have a few dozen of minutes and I don’t want to run content that is harder than what I mind doing? Well… Almost any other mechanics of the game puts you to this position. Either spend money or time. If you _don’t want to do_ something it is not a reason to place special new game mechanics. So basically you are asking for completely new mechanics for the game (keeping aside broken stuff like 0.0-sec anomalies). ---
**Author:** ![March\_rabbit](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/march_rabbit/32/453160_2.png) [@March\_rabbit](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/March_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2018, 12:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/783 "2018-05-16T12:16:43Z")
> [@Loreline\_Farcloud](#): > > instanced pockets by definition must be self-sustaining. Can you provide more details about the matter? Looking at expeditions/escalations (which you get from running anomalies) you don’t get another ticket from running it. Basically you run N amount of anomalies and get X number of escalations (X \< N). And that’s it. Another example: scannable sites. Some of them _can_ provide escalation to the next site. And again: number of escalations you get is lower than number of sites you run. I might be wrong comparing Abyssal space and regular escalations tho. But for me they look the same: you run lvl1 and _can get_ ticket to lvl2. You run lvl2 and _can get_ ticket to lvl3. Etc, etc… [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843.md?page=36) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843.md?page=38)