# Discussion about "Into the Abyss" update **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [April 15, 2018, 12:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843 "2018-04-15T12:09:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 47
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 12:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/967 "2018-05-20T12:52:58Z")
> [@Dark\_Engraver](#): > > Can we talk about the evil npcs inside please?I’m personally out of good fitting ideas if anyone could enlighten me a bit You can talk about that all you want. I’m talking about the filament situation, which must not be allowed to grow quadratically, such that you end up with more than one filament, of any kind, except one to the next pocket. Any more than 1 filament reward to the next pocket will wreck the filament market, and the value of loot from those pockets. One filament= One Chain. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 12:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/968 "2018-05-20T12:53:25Z")
shhh don’t talk to him, you will restart the spam-machine. I told him what he was affirming made no sense, his brain doesn’t have the “learn” feature implemented, you are gona bug him again. ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Engraver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dark_engraver/32/45178_2.png) [@Dark\_Engraver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dark_Engraver)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 12:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/969 "2018-05-20T12:54:48Z")
But tiers don’t work the way you think it’s not like tier5 is the completion goal of a tier 1 it’s all very randomised ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 12:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/970 "2018-05-20T12:57:50Z")
I told him there was no “next” pocket, he can’t accept that. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 12:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/971 "2018-05-20T12:58:04Z")
> [@Dark\_Engraver](#): > > But tiers don’t work the way you think it’s not like tier5 is the completion goal of a tier 1 it’s all very randomised It does work that way in the linear model. You cant generate a L2-L5 pocket without someone having completed the previous pocket and sourced the filament. TLDR: To get a L4 filament, you or someone else has to sourced the L1, and run the L1-L3 pockets. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 1:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/972 "2018-05-20T13:00:58Z")
TLDR he doesn’t know how things are actually implemented in sisi but feels entitled to give his opinion on how things SHOULD be implemented. ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Engraver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dark_engraver/32/45178_2.png) [@Dark\_Engraver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dark_Engraver)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 1:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/973 "2018-05-20T13:01:10Z")
But weather…they each require different ships and now filaments drop random weather you don’t always get firestorm in firestorm site ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Engraver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dark_engraver/32/45178_2.png) [@Dark\_Engraver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dark_Engraver)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 1:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/974 "2018-05-20T13:03:40Z")
Anyway back to rats!they cheat with their remote reping shenanigans just yesterday I had 1 pesky demavik survive with2% structure and tackle me 😕 then his buddies caught up and I died ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 1:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/975 "2018-05-20T13:12:11Z")
do you do drugs ? ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Engraver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dark_engraver/32/45178_2.png) [@Dark\_Engraver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dark_Engraver)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 1:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/976 "2018-05-20T13:13:34Z")
Irl no in-game yes ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 1:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/977 "2018-05-20T13:14:08Z")
ig of course, IRL I don’t care. are you using the best drugs available ? ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Engraver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dark_engraver/32/45178_2.png) [@Dark\_Engraver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dark_Engraver)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 1:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/978 "2018-05-20T13:14:59Z")
No just standard to avoid side effects like blue pill standard exile standard ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 2:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/979 "2018-05-20T14:18:13Z")
> [@Dark\_Engraver](#): > > But weather…they each require different ships and now filaments drop random weather you don’t always get firestorm in firestorm site Sell that filament to someone better prepared to run it. If some conditions of a pocket are unrunnable, thats a CCP fail, not one that validates receiving multiple filament rewards from a pocket, when you only invested one and got the rest of the loot. ---
**Author:** ![Dantelion\_Shinoni](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dantelion_shinoni/32/383315_2.png) [@Dantelion\_Shinoni](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dantelion_Shinoni)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 7:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/980 "2018-05-20T19:43:39Z")
> [@oosnyt](#): > > Is this topic also the place to whine about how hard tier 5 are ? I mean tier 5 last room BS spawn it’s not doable in its current form or i am missing something. Pretty sure CCP is waiting for player to cheese it, but also making players at that level purely dependent on the Roguelike elements of the dungeons (the gas field, structures, etc), so each good run will be _a costly one_. So, a successful run of a Tier 5 will likely involve favorable circumstances lining up to your advantage, until some cheese it. To put it simply, CCP has all interests in the world to do that. This will help remove officer mods, drugs, and implants from the market, and it gives a proper challenge to the players who like those, as you do not HAVE to do Tier 5 if you do not like them. The only problem is that they have to make it worth all the potential deaths trying to win a Tier 5. Hopefully the BPCs and such will do so, _because it’s not the Mutaplasmids, and their high chance to screw up, that will lol_. > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > You refuse to answer direct questions So, I will break my personal boycott and actually address you one, direct question. Let’s take 4 kind of players, highly likely to be the ones that will engage with Abyssal Deadspaces: - The Casual Runner: Limited by time, only has an hour or so before sleep, cooking, or wifey and kids. Will likely want to run 2 to 3 sites to feel like he had a worthwhile gaming night **(CCP didn’t choose the time value randomly)**. - The Hardcore Farmer: Limited by ISK/hour, has average amount of time but is picky with it. Will likely try to identify the best Tier to farm and the best items to sell. - The Achiever: Limited by Difficulty and Success, will probably want to pilot a Velshak and be among the ones with an OP Mutaplasmid module he crafted. Will try to make it to Tier 5 to get unique rewards (like the Triglavian Battleship) and the feeling of achievement. - The Basic Nerd: Has PLENTY of time, could spend the whole day playing. Limited by fun. Aka if something is not entertaining him, he won’t put up with it, and he will just go play Fortnite or Dota (inb4 Dota lol). **Tell me how your linear model benefits each one of those psychological portraits and how it makes EVE clearly better for them.** I was gonna ask you to also list the disadvantages of the model on them, but I sincerely doubt you have the objectivity to see the flaws in your own design/thinking. So yeah, the advantages of the model on those will be enough, you have a chance to convince me here. ---
**Author:** ![zluq\_zabaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zluq_zabaa/32/19011_2.png) [@zluq\_zabaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zluq_zabaa)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 10:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/981 "2018-05-20T22:32:07Z")
> [@Wander\_Prian](#): > > Looking back at how CCP has handled other sites and their drops, I can say pretty surely that what you are pushing for won’t happen. The Forums are for discussions amongst players. CCP takes what they can as feedback, but they are under no obligation to read every single contribution in every single thread. People who are seriously trying to push their agenda here, are on the wrong path. The more they repeat themselves, the less likely that someone who can make decisions will even start to read the thread. Apart from annoying others you can’t really reach any goal with trying to scream the loudest here. > [@oosnyt](#): > > Is this topic also the place to whine about how hard tier 5 are ? Not yet, but feel free to set the trend! > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > You need drugs, HG implants, officer modules, and a church praying for the salvation of your pod. You don’t. > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Some semantic ■■■■■■■■ or something actually relevant to how many filaments a Trig pocket should drop. Semantics are important. if we use the same words with a different meaning, any consent or dissent is imaginary. The number of filament drops is of some importance, but not of enough importance to make such a fuss about it. Some people may have hopes that they can run Data Sites for Tier 1 filaments without end and make bank with that. These people care, the rest does not. People who already made up their mind that _they would like_ for filaments to be precious loot on its own, can wish whatever they want. No one cares about what others wish for themselves. There are only 2 compelling arguments regarding the droprates of filaments: 1. Not under 1 or it will simply break every dynamic by making external sources of filaments necessary 2. Not over X lest filaments become unnecessary and the sites could as well be opened without them. X can not be determined with high precision at this point, because we don’t yet know which Types/Tiers of filaments the majority of players will go for to min/max their efforts. We can say that 1 \< X \< 25 If we were to _assume_ that out of 25 Tier/Type combinations at least 3 are highly sought after, we _could_ say that 1 \< X \<= 8 … and so forth. Everything else are just more or less good ideas/wishes that are certainly always influenced by the specific interest of their supporters. ---
**Author:** ![zluq\_zabaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zluq_zabaa/32/19011_2.png) [@zluq\_zabaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zluq_zabaa)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 10:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/982 "2018-05-20T22:36:31Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > You already asked that question. > > I report your for spamming. I totally agree, it’s extremely disruptive behaviour. I can’t say more because discussion of moderation is forbidden. Lol. ---
**Author:** ![zluq\_zabaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zluq_zabaa/32/19011_2.png) [@zluq\_zabaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zluq_zabaa)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 10:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/983 "2018-05-20T22:46:54Z")
> [@Dantelion\_Shinoni](#): > > To put it simply, CCP has all interests in the world to do that. This will help remove officer mods, drugs, and implants from the market, and it gives a proper challenge to the players who like those, as you do not HAVE to do Tier 5 if you do not like them. Boosters and Implants maybe, but only if the loot in those sites is even good enough to get people into taking these risks and investments. I mean the Triglavian ships are surely interesting, but will they be so OP that everyone wants them? I don’t think so. And Mutaplasmids, while some of them could be quite powerful, the pricetag on running a really really good mutation is insane even if Mutaplasmids were completely free of effort and charge. Take the opportunity cost to source them and the cost for a single great mutated mod goes well beyond a Supercarrier. People will run Tier5 of certain types once they feel confident in doing so. If not, they’ll learn to stay away. > [@Dantelion\_Shinoni](#): > > Let’s take 4 kind of players, highly likely to be the ones that will engage with Abyssal Deadspaces: This is a very good way of looking at it! +1 ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2018, 12:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/984 "2018-05-21T00:18:24Z")
> [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > You don’t. Sorry to disrupt you (\< this is joke) , it was meant as a joke, as CCP is making the abyss more and more difficult as the time passes, so what is working one day may as well completely fails on next day. ---
**Author:** ![Fluffy\_Moe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/fluffy_moe/32/11132_2.png) [@Fluffy\_Moe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Fluffy_Moe)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2018, 1:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/985 "2018-05-21T01:19:32Z")
I feel like a large part of this whole thread is just irrelevant, in the current form on Sisi the lvl 3+ sites require bling and super luck on the spawn RNG to complete them. Lvl 1 sites are OK, they can be completed in basically anything and don’t need all lvl 5 skills to do so. I’m not sure about all the alpha limitations, they might or might not be able to do these. Lvl 2 sites can be done in T2 fits with max skills and some better piloting. People that dont have maxed skills or don’t fly too well, or can’t match the fits to the weather effects will be filtered out. Lvl 3 sites is where the problems start. Completion is 100% determined by RNG of the spawns. You can not fit ships to accomodate for the variations thus losses are guaranteed even if you bling. You may get lucky and be able to do 1-2 or even 3 sites and then blam, bad spawn, down goes a 2 bil ship + 1 bil pod. And by spawn RNG I mean total spawn RNG, not just the ships, you get a wrong supressor at wrong location and boom, you’re dead cause of timer or you have no choice but to skip loot entirely just to not lose your ship. The loot on lvl 3 sites does not pay for the ships, even you fly just T2 fits on empty pods, which isn’t likely. I ran them in groups of 10s, mutaplasmids are just too rare to the point that they’re not worth running. Initially the Vedmak stuff like blueprints, turret blueprints, skillbooks etc. will sell nicely, but the Vedmak is actually a pretty crappy ship once you try it out so there will be a glut of this stuff on markets relatively quick. The lvl 4 sites are even worse then the lvl 3, then you throw suspect timer when leaving on top of that saying “o look, a damaged blingy ship right here !” Lvl 5s LOL, just LOL So who in their right minds is going to run these ? Rich ISK blillionares that don’t care how much they lose ? Maybe at start some people for novelty just to see what its like ? And pass that ? O and if anyone’s looking for gank targets cause of that timer, good ■■■■■■■ luck with that, you’re 100 times better off going after burner farmers or alike. Way more reliable and once the initial wave passes they will still be there, unlike the people from these. No targets 4 u, because its not worth it to even run these in the 1st place. ---
**Author:** ![My\_Cat\_Meows](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/my_cat_meows/32/146661_2.png) [@My\_Cat\_Meows](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/My_Cat_Meows)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2018, 1:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/986 "2018-05-21T01:38:25Z")
> [@Fluffy\_Moe](#): > > I feel like a large part of this whole thread is just irrelevant, in the current form on Sisi the lvl 3+ sites require bling and super luck on the spawn RNG to complete them. I agree, there are many issues to talk about, and all the thread does is circle around variations of how to set the filament spawnrate that everyone already agrees on being too high. xD Meanwhile the low multiplasmid droprate removes the feature of abyssal mods for the majority of players and the response is kinda meh. You can run non-dark lvl4s in a T2 fit… But the variety of options is pretty limited. For Tier 5s… yeah 😃 The pure EHP of all the spawns there is pretty dumb 😃 [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843.md?page=46) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843.md?page=48)