# Discussion about "Into the Abyss" update **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [April 15, 2018, 12:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843 "2018-04-15T12:09:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 12:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/161 "2018-05-02T12:01:39Z")
Lets see, if I will have to run countless DED sites, countless hours, and then wait for a good drop, and if the mutaplasmids will drop en masse so you can do a similar module as DED for fraction of time and price? Hmmm that doesnt looks good for DED modules market. 🤔 The RNG and drop rate of mutaplasmids would have to be very much calculated around drop rate of DED modules, to not flood the market with the cheap replacement. Of course if CCP still want to keep the status quo and not make a revolution. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 12:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/162 "2018-05-02T12:02:03Z")
Dom, you dont understand RNG. If you only roll once, its raw RNG. If you roll 100 times, RNG changes into an average. If you roll often enough, you will end up with a predictable average outcome. ---
**Author:** ![Dom\_Arkaral](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dom_arkaral/32/462611_2.png) [@Dom\_Arkaral](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dom_Arkaral)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 12:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/163 "2018-05-02T12:04:00Z")
I don’t understand rng? Lol Rng is RANDOM It’s in the name lol You can’t predict something random even if you tried E1: I’ll just add that if you get the average on 2 different sets of 100 items, you won’t get the same average since randomness… ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 12:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/164 "2018-05-02T12:04:15Z")
define “enough”. With “enough” experimentations, we can deduce the nature of universe. Too bad in most cases “enough” is equal to “infinite”, that is, out of human reach. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 12:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/165 "2018-05-02T12:05:00Z")
> [@Dom\_Arkaral](#): > > You can’t predict something random even if you tried actually you can predict events that have RNG in them. If you launch a D6 an infinite number, your average value will be 7. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 12:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/166 "2018-05-02T12:05:37Z")
> [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > Of course if CCP still want to keep the status quo and not make a revolution. Player NS wants a revolution, for them. They cant sell their T2 enough, so they want to replace the DED/LP market with mutated T2 modules. That is the power-play at hand here. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 12:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/167 "2018-05-02T12:06:23Z")
Its all a relation. In DED modules case its rng in drop rate, in mutaplasmids it will be drop rate of them plus the RNG of applied mutaplasmids. I wonder if there is someone who will balance it in economy terms. ---
**Author:** ![krakpipe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/krakpipe/32/61065_2.png) [@krakpipe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/krakpipe)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 12:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/168 "2018-05-02T12:07:31Z")
what ? given that the mutated range on 500mn MWDs speed bonus is now + / - 10% (over the base 500%) and the best officer 500mn only offers +3.2% (over the base 500%) speed bonus, your statement about lower tier DED is total bollox. From a T2 500mn MWD anything over 3.2% speed bonus up to and including 10% will be a better speed bonus than the best currently available in the game let alone your lower tier DED. And this is using a stat (MWD speed boost) that they have already adjusted downwards twice. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 12:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/169 "2018-05-02T12:10:48Z")
I would like the good stats rolled to be very rare. In such case the damage that could be done will be diminished. And people will call outrageous prices anyway, let them. ---
**Author:** ![krakpipe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/krakpipe/32/61065_2.png) [@krakpipe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/krakpipe)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 12:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/170 "2018-05-02T12:15:05Z")
They’ve (Rise) indicated this won’t be the case, despite what Fozzie said at FF. They don’t want this to be limited to a few mega rich players. Who to believe ? Either option has downside IMO, commonplace good rolls means powercreep and rare good rolls advantages the mega rich. Sh\*\* sandwich either way ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 12:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/171 "2018-05-02T12:18:04Z")
I think powercreep will be more destructive for exploration than when you sell stuff to megarich guy so he can get something out from the other megarich players. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 12:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/172 "2018-05-02T12:19:51Z")
> [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > Its all a relation. In DED modules case its rng in drop rate, in mutaplasmids it will be drop rate of them plus the RNG of applied mutaplasmids. I wonder if there is someone who will balance it in economy terms. 1. DEDs take time/effort to find and LP requires a directed effort/time. L1 filaments, however, will be purchaseable from others, and provide subsequent L2-5 filaments, plus plasmutids/BPs per pocket. 2. Why would someone buy a DED/LP module to apply a plasmutid to, when you can apply it to a T2 module instead? If DED/LP module price collapses to the level of T2 mutated module price, why even bother the effort of completing DED/LP content? Just buy T2 instead, and mutate that. (which Player NS sources)… 3. Lets say the chance of a desirable mutation is 10%. That means if you run 100 mutations, you can expect a 10% success rate. After that, its simple number crunching. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 12:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/173 "2018-05-02T12:24:42Z")
My understaning is, that they should look at current situation, calculate how much people run sites, how much DED and faction modules enter market a month, and design a system when running filaments, applying mutaplasmids and making modified modules would take more effort for better stats than what is run today. There have to be ISK/h ratio somewhere in the system. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 12:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/174 "2018-05-02T12:36:55Z")
> [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > what is run today. It will still depress DED/LP module markets. The introduction of the potential to mutate T2 modules into “super modules” invariably has a deleterious effect on demand for DED/LP modules. To drive that home: - Can you think of any way plasmutids will INCREASE the value of DED/LP modules, rather than that of T2 modules? - What if plasmutids could ONLY be applied to DED/LP modules? ---
**Author:** ![Dom\_Arkaral](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dom_arkaral/32/462611_2.png) [@Dom\_Arkaral](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dom_Arkaral)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 12:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/175 "2018-05-02T12:52:52Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > What if plasmutids could ONLY be applied to DED/LP modules? Then you’d favor the richest lol You’d be giving them another advantage which you’d also cry about 😂 ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 12:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/176 "2018-05-02T12:55:13Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > The introduction of the potential to mutate T2 modules into “super modules” invariably has a deleterious effect on demand for DED/LP modules. If someone would have to use mutaplasmids that cost more than those modules on average, then I dont think it will have adverse effect on current prices. Same for officer and other modules. I mean rolls for the stats can have similar rules as for drops of modules. You would basically roll for stats/roll for modules, using obtained stuff for ISK and time that someone sunk into it. Cant say if that is what CCP ever considered tho. Its just my wishful thinking. > Can you think of any way plasmutids will INCREASE the value of DED/LP modules, rather than that of T2 modules? If people will use mutaplsmids on them, they will want more ISK for the succesfully made ones. As for the available DED modules, if people could make cheaper and faster the better ones just by using tech 2 stuff and mutaplasmids, they will just make them and DED modules will drop in price accordingly. So that is why I made this previous post, because I care for DED prices that are currently. ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Engraver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dark_engraver/32/45178_2.png) [@Dark\_Engraver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dark_Engraver)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 1:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/177 "2018-05-02T13:14:38Z")
I would only roll deadspace mods primarily for frigs can you figure out why? ---
**Author:** ![zluq\_zabaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zluq_zabaa/32/19011_2.png) [@zluq\_zabaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zluq_zabaa)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 1:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/178 "2018-05-02T13:39:39Z")
> [@Tipa\_Riot](#): > > What I see on SiSi is the most bot-friendly PvE ever seen. There is no complexity involved, just linear grind and luck on the spawn. Because it is instanced solo, CCP would not be able to detect bots, so it’s safe for botters too. Everything is botable, but this PvE certainly isn’t “bot-friendly”. You can’t predict the incoming e-war, the site layout changes each time, the rats and their damage change, it is certainly harder to bot than an anom. On top of that, a bot would normally warp to a safe if neutral enter system. In this case, the bot would have to finish the site and can get caught on exit. If anything it is bot-hunter-friendly. > [@Tipa\_Riot](#): > > The new system will just make a whole economy of modules above T2 obsolete, and replace skill based mini-professions by slot machines. Fewer people in (real) space, and so on … Probably not. CCP just heavily nerfed the mutaplasmids to the point that T2 will not be able to reach even lower type of faction modules. If it stays like that, faction modules won’t be effected at all. On the other hand, since the possible boni were lowered so much, I’m not sure the predicted faction/ded loot rise in price will be coming. If you can get only 5-10% for risking to brick an expensive module, it doesn’t look like a really interesting option. > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > They will be replaced by Mutated T2 in a matter of weeks once Delve starts churning them out. Very bad advise, don’t listen to him. The stats have just been nerfed and most MT2 won’t be able to scratch the stats of Faction modules. > [@Black\_Pedro](#): > > This seems unlikely to me. The very nature of this mechanic is going to increase consumption of modules through the failed rolls stimulating demand at all levels. The only thing better than a mutated T2 module is a mutated faction/deadspace/office module. Yes for the consumption, no for the power of the modules. With the recent nerf, a T2 Web for instance can’t reach the base stats of any Faction web, apart from the chance on getting 66% Web strenght bonus. > [@krakpipe](#): > > You need to look at the numbers again mate, mutated T2 can far outstrip officer at this point. [https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/8ggs7g/sisi\_mutated\_mod\_stat\_update/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/8ggs7g/sisi_mutated_mod_stat_update/) ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 1:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/179 "2018-05-02T13:41:17Z")
> [@Dark\_Engraver](#): > > I would only roll deadspace mods primarily for frigs can you figure out why? No, why? @Nana_Skalski Lets say there is a 10% chance of a desirable mutation of a specific type. Which would you rather brick 90 modules on to get those 10 successes. T2 or DED/LP? ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 1:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843/180 "2018-05-02T13:46:04Z")
> [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > Probably not. CCP just heavily nerfed the mutaplasmids to the point that T2 will not be able to reach even lower type of faction modules. If it stays like that, faction modules won’t be effected at all. On the other hand, since the possible boni were lowered so much, I’m not sure the predicted faction/ded loot rise in price will be coming. If you can get only 5-10% for risking to brick an expensive module, it doesn’t look like a really interesting option. This is good news. Far preferable that plasmutids are run on high-end DED/LP or even Officer modules, than T2. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843.md?page=8) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-about-into-the-abyss-update/69843.md?page=10)