# Discussion Of The Implications Of Niarja's Invasion **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [August 17, 2020, 5:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-of-the-implications-of-niarjas-invasion/260741 "2020-08-17T05:26:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![Chadwikk](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/chadwikk/32/267555_2.png) [@Chadwikk](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Chadwikk)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 11:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-of-the-implications-of-niarjas-invasion/260741/541 "2020-08-18T23:09:53Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > So I’m guessing you missed what he actually said then? Taken out of context that was in reference to a specific quote that he said. Wtf are you even talking about lmao. You really think I was referring to everything that guy has said in the history of his existence? > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > I didn’t. > > You said this in reply to merin saying it was a pvp sandbox: He was implying that the game was all about players fighting each other in ships. I asked for a quote to back that. You came with one talkking about PVP which does not back his narrative. Why are you having a debate in such bad faith honestly wtf please engage actually what we are saying. > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > So either you’re confusing what is meant by pvp sandbox or you don’t disagree with merin. It seems you two are the ones confusing it because competing for sites in HS with others is PVP. To summarize your horrible argument so far: I made the assertion grouping in HS with friends to farm 10M an hour isn’t bad for the game and asked why you are worried about it. You then made a non-point and said: > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > And farming effects the economy and that effects everyone. That’s why we care. You would need to show how this negatively effects the game and how it is different from other farming to show why this is a bad thing, you didn’t do that at all. Instead you started mischaracterizing everything I was saying and trying to take words or quotes out of context. If I have misunderstood someone’s argument I am very quick to apologize and try to understand correctly to actually have a rational conversation about ideas. ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 11:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-of-the-implications-of-niarjas-invasion/260741/544 "2020-08-18T23:10:36Z")
I’ve heard this before… 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![Ira\_Infernus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ira_infernus/32/389782_2.png) [@Ira\_Infernus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ira_Infernus)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 11:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-of-the-implications-of-niarjas-invasion/260741/545 "2020-08-18T23:11:55Z")
Stale meme, but smoke, meet fire. ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 11:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-of-the-implications-of-niarjas-invasion/260741/546 "2020-08-18T23:13:54Z")
With the Covid, we wont know what the numbers are till after X-Mas… ---
**Author:** ![ISD\_Dorrim\_Barstorlode](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/isd_dorrim_barstorlode/32/361083_2.png) [@ISD\_Dorrim\_Barstorlode](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ISD_Dorrim_Barstorlode)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 11:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-of-the-implications-of-niarjas-invasion/260741/548 "2020-08-18T23:15:21Z")
---
**Author:** ![ISD\_Dorrim\_Barstorlode](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/isd_dorrim_barstorlode/32/361083_2.png) [@ISD\_Dorrim\_Barstorlode](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ISD_Dorrim_Barstorlode)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 11:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-of-the-implications-of-niarjas-invasion/260741/549 "2020-08-18T23:15:30Z")
Removed a large number of off topic posts. Don’t do it again, only warning. ---
**Author:** ![ISD\_Dorrim\_Barstorlode](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/isd_dorrim_barstorlode/32/361083_2.png) [@ISD\_Dorrim\_Barstorlode](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ISD_Dorrim_Barstorlode)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 11:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-of-the-implications-of-niarjas-invasion/260741/550 "2020-08-18T23:30:20Z")
---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 11:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-of-the-implications-of-niarjas-invasion/260741/551 "2020-08-18T23:30:29Z")
> [@ISD\_Dorrim\_Barstorlode](#): > > Closed for a quick clean. Should we send you extra TP for those “quick cleans”? 😆 ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 11:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-of-the-implications-of-niarjas-invasion/260741/552 "2020-08-18T23:42:08Z")
I’m assuming this post was left intact i can reply to it? If not please nuke this reply @ISD_Dorrim_Barstorlode > [@Chadwikk](#): > > Taken out of context that was in reference to a specific quote that he said. Merin was replying to darlo, including the time he said in this thread that pvp should be completely removed. You jumped in and said he wasn’t saying that. > [@Chadwikk](#): > > He was implying that the game was all about players fighting each other in ships That is the terminal purpose of eve yes. Everything done, all material and money that changes hands, eventually and collectively results in ship pew pew. But that doesn’t necessarily mean thats what everyone has to do in game and not what is just meant by pvp sandbox. But merin knows that. > [@Chadwikk](#): > > It seems you two are the ones confusing it because competing for sites in HS with others is PVP. But you mischaracterized us as pro PvPers. Your the one defending someone you don’t actually agree with. No one said pvp sandbox means only ship pew pew and no one said the trig invasion isn’t pvp. All these mischaracterizations are yours. > [@Chadwikk](#): > > You would need to show how this negatively effects the game and how it is different from other farming to show why this is a bad thing How the ease of access between niarja and jita promotes farming? Because it makes selling stuff from your farming quicker and easier. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 11:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-of-the-implications-of-niarjas-invasion/260741/553 "2020-08-18T23:59:55Z")
> [@Chadwikk](#): > > She was implying that the game was all about players fighting each other in ships. I implied no such thing. Please do not make straw man arguments. ---
**Author:** ![Katarina\_Neeko](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/katarina_neeko/32/316543_2.png) [@Katarina\_Neeko](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Katarina_Neeko)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 12:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-of-the-implications-of-niarjas-invasion/260741/554 "2020-08-19T00:00:53Z")
> [@Katarina\_Neeko](#): > > ![Untitled](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/a/c/ac4d488bbd4df16966839328dd931e130b560608.png) > > Untitled500×616 356 KB it’s 45 actually but does it matter at this point? ---
**Author:** ![Chadwikk](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/chadwikk/32/267555_2.png) [@Chadwikk](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Chadwikk)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 12:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-of-the-implications-of-niarjas-invasion/260741/555 "2020-08-19T00:01:25Z")
All in all I think we don’t really know what will happen with these flipped systems so it is hard to judge what the future will hold. Maybe the flipped systems become HS again only with more PVE for trig stuff with LP and everything inside of them who knows. The fact that you think I am defending a person and not an idea or something he said is problematic to say the least, it seems you have some big bias against the guy and are quick to attack him instead of actually judging the idea not the person. I never said what he did or didn’t say so I really have no idea what you are talking about, all I was doing was summarizing one post he made about everyone’s current playstyle being viable, you can mischaracterize that all you want it doesn’t change it. If you misunderstood what I was saying for some reason there you go now it is clear. Also the pro pvp comment was to him after he was calling people carebears etc. > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > No one said pvp sandbox means only ship pew pew and no one said the trig invasion isn’t pvp. > > All these mischaracterizations are yours. He was characterizing that the games core design concept was other ships shooting each other and nothing else, I refuted that and said its a sandbox game meant to be played how you want, therefore people who like to play in HS and not fight other players are still valid. You used some quote from a 2014 FAQ saying “PVP” was a core concept as if it was evidence to back up what he was saying. I pointed out that the “PVP” in that quote doesn’t mean what you think it does so it is irrelevant to what he was saying. If that wasn’t your intention with posting it, and you just posted it for no reason but to agree with me that it isn’t the core mechanic of the game then let me know and we can agree. You can try to walk back what you posted as evidence for his claim, but anyone can see that you posted it in clear reference to his argument. > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > How the ease of access between niarja and jita promotes farming? > > Because it makes selling stuff from your farming quicker and easier. Once again you have engaged everyone but what we are actually talking about lol. I am not interested in sitting here debating a bunch of semantical meaning of words you try to walk back down the line. I asked you how that is bad for the game. I didn’t realize farming was bad for the game. Or quicker farming was bad for the game. You would need to explain how those are bad for the game now, and if they are bad for the game why farming shouldn’t just be removed outright. No offense but it seems you really haven’t thought out any of your points here. That is my only point that we shouldn’t be making these drastic changes without knowing wtf they are doing to the game. The onus is on you for the explanation not me. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 12:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-of-the-implications-of-niarjas-invasion/260741/556 "2020-08-19T00:02:41Z")
> [@Katarina\_Neeko](#): > > it’s 45 actually but does it matter at this point? Only if you are terrified of leaving highsec. It’s quite a bit shorter if you aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![Katarina\_Neeko](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/katarina_neeko/32/316543_2.png) [@Katarina\_Neeko](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Katarina_Neeko)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 12:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-of-the-implications-of-niarjas-invasion/260741/557 "2020-08-19T00:03:39Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > Only if you are terrified of leaving highsec. It’s quite a bit shorter if you aren’t. 24/7 hard core gate camp… just look at zKillboard > **[Niarja | System](https://zkillboard.com/system/30003504/)** > > Niarja: 298,291 ships destroyed and 0 ships lost. ---
**Author:** ![Chadwikk](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/chadwikk/32/267555_2.png) [@Chadwikk](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Chadwikk)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 12:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-of-the-implications-of-niarjas-invasion/260741/558 "2020-08-19T00:07:25Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > Because EVE is a PvP game built on player interactions. The ability to opt out of interacting with other players and solo farm AFK with zero risk or effort is incompatible with this design concept. Sorry my mistake then. If you don’t think Eve was supposed to be a game built around players fighting each other can you describe what you meant by the above post and what you actually think the game is supposed to be? ---
**Author:** ![Katyusha\_Lisa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/katyusha_lisa/32/176157_2.png) [@Katyusha\_Lisa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Katyusha_Lisa)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 12:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-of-the-implications-of-niarjas-invasion/260741/559 "2020-08-19T00:10:29Z")
The nullbears are doing just fine with their farming after all they can rely on CCP taking out any opposition ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 12:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-of-the-implications-of-niarjas-invasion/260741/560 "2020-08-19T00:12:10Z")
> [@Katarina\_Neeko](#): > > 24/7 hard core gate camp… Why don’t the people who wish to use this route attack and defeat the gatecamp, instead of continuing to be helpless perma-victims? > [@Chadwikk](#): > > Sorry my mistake then. If you don’t think Eve was supposed to be a game built around players fighting each other can you describe what you meant by the above post and what you actually think the game is supposed to be? There is a difference between “you can’t opt out of combat PvP” and “combat PvP is all that matters” and you know it. Don’t play dumb. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 12:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-of-the-implications-of-niarjas-invasion/260741/561 "2020-08-19T00:12:41Z")
> [@Chadwikk](#): > > it seems you have some big bias against the guy and are quick to attack him instead of actually judging the idea not the person. Unbelievable. I attacked him now? ---
**Author:** ![Chadwikk](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/chadwikk/32/267555_2.png) [@Chadwikk](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Chadwikk)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 12:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-of-the-implications-of-niarjas-invasion/260741/562 "2020-08-19T00:14:55Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > There is a difference between “you can’t opt out of combat PvP” and “combat PvP is all that matters” and you know it. Don’t play dumb. Okay then if you truly believe that what is the problem with people staying in HS currently and farming with a group of friends in relative safety for 10M an hour each? ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 12:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-of-the-implications-of-niarjas-invasion/260741/563 "2020-08-19T00:15:43Z")
> [@Chadwikk](#): > > Okay then if you truly believe that what is the problem with people staying in HS currently and farming with a group of friends in relative safety for 10M an hour each? Please do not build straw man arguments. I did not object to people doing that in relative safety (as exists now), I objected to Darlo’s demand to remove _literally all PvP from highsec_. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-of-the-implications-of-niarjas-invasion/260741.md?page=22) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-of-the-implications-of-niarjas-invasion/260741.md?page=24)