# Discussion Of The Implications Of Niarja's Invasion **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [August 17, 2020, 5:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-of-the-implications-of-niarjas-invasion/260741 "2020-08-17T05:26:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 47
**Author:** ![Foggy\_Bernstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/foggy_bernstein/32/407887_2.png) [@Foggy\_Bernstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Foggy_Bernstein)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 6:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-of-the-implications-of-niarjas-invasion/260741/1170 "2020-09-01T06:04:42Z")
Not this time, toots. ---
**Author:** ![Galaxy\_Pig](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/galaxy_pig/32/374625_2.png) [@Galaxy\_Pig](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Galaxy_Pig)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 1:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-of-the-implications-of-niarjas-invasion/260741/1172 "2020-09-01T13:14:28Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Not at all, since it doesn’t increase motivation to kill each other. Oh, okay. So we can expect no freighter deaths, then. What’s the problem? Oh, right… Contracts exist, so whatever they do to shake things up is pointless because Lucas will just carebear his way around the 40 jumps. Ehhh, seems like a good change to me. Lazy carebears should have to jump/pay for at least 40 jumps. ---
**Author:** ![Senyu\_Takashi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/senyu_takashi/32/213351_2.png) [@Senyu\_Takashi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Senyu_Takashi)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 1:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-of-the-implications-of-niarjas-invasion/260741/1173 "2020-09-01T13:41:51Z")
Over 1000 posts already? Damn, I will have to build another salt mine on this deposit. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 3:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-of-the-implications-of-niarjas-invasion/260741/1175 "2020-09-01T15:41:28Z")
Lotttt a folk in Ronne are gonna be suprised to find hear people on the internet think they need to move lol ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 3:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-of-the-implications-of-niarjas-invasion/260741/1176 "2020-09-01T15:42:42Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > It’s not going to suddenly create loads of long term PvP opportunities because if people weren’t regularly fighting in the lowsec system 4 jumps away from Niarja before it seems odd that you think chaning it’s sec status will suddenly create long-term PvP. The system can’t be swapped back so there’s nothing left to fight over. That’s not at all a relevant comparison. Some random lowsec system near Niarja has nothing to fight over, so of course it sees no activity outside of the occasional “let’s have a fight just to have a fight”. Niarja has access to a time saving route between Amarr and Jita, which gives people a _reason_ to fight there. If PvP isn’t happening it’s only because risk-averse PvE players have decided that they’d rather go an extra ~35 jumps on each trip to avoid PvP. > They don’t though, they can just move. Carebears can carebear anywhere. There are plenty of systems to play in within 9 jumps of Jita. That’s why the inevitable next step is to impose some form of scarcity mechanic that forces players to spread out if they want to make any profit, at which point trade routes matter a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 3:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-of-the-implications-of-niarjas-invasion/260741/1178 "2020-09-01T15:58:29Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > It doesn’t though, because the cost of securing the system will far outweigh any potential benefit that can be gained from holding it. {citation needed} If the system is so unprofitable and easily avoided then surely the PvP players are smart enough to realize that putting up a massive 23/7 gatecamp on an empty system is a waste of their time, which means that it wouldn’t take much effort to take and hold it for a freighter convoy to pass through. > PvE players who want to sell in Jita just move to a closer location to Jita and PvE there instead. You do understand the concept of trade, right? That the whole point of the route through Niarja is for players who have activities in multiple systems? ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 6:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-of-the-implications-of-niarjas-invasion/260741/1180 "2020-09-01T18:01:47Z")
I agree with Lucas on a few key points. Mainly, that lots of players are likely to move to Caldari space in the short-term, and that over the long term, trade might shift _away_ from Caldari space. Right now, players are already migrating to Caldari space in order to be closer to Jita. They generally might not be smart players, or efficient players, but boy is there a _lot_ of them. Naturally, the wolves will follow the prey. In the near future, Caldari space will be even _more_ of a central hub for player activity than it is today. But over time, trade will shift over to somewhere in the middle of EVE’s new “SIlk Road.” Gallente space is actually a prime candidate for that, both because it’s a relative mid-point between the two ends of the long route between Jita and Amarr, and because Jita’s pull is likely to prevent Minmatar space from becoming the fulcrum (because Amarr’s pull is considerably weaker). If the map remains as is, without further major changes, Dodixie could become the primary hubs within a few years. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 6:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-of-the-implications-of-niarjas-invasion/260741/1182 "2020-09-01T18:16:51Z")
I think players are more inclined to migrate to existing ones, as opposed to making new ones from scratch. In itself, Dodixie actually isn’t a very good system (and its kicker station isn’t good for traders). But if I had to bet money… One thing I don’t think will **ever** happen is that the new major hub will be inside a player-owned citadel, no matter how hard they try. ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 6:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-of-the-implications-of-niarjas-invasion/260741/1184 "2020-09-01T18:28:27Z")
yeah all the bears are going to caldari not good but gotta respect ccp for doing a change that ■■■■ up the game so much 😃 ![Captura de Tela 2020-09-01 às 15.33.02](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/9/7/97d9d4d00406031b6fcaab6d7764ce90773fb32b.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Gabriel\_Eban](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gabriel_eban/32/308946_2.png) [@Gabriel\_Eban](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gabriel_Eban)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 7:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-of-the-implications-of-niarjas-invasion/260741/1185 "2020-09-01T19:02:30Z")
On issue I see with this argument is the popular mistaken notion that HS has the means to just coordinate large group actions but simply chooses not to. HS couldn’t put a blob together no matter how much some would like to see it happen. There is no social structure to enable forming any such group. There isn’t even a loose confederacy of groups to call on. HS is populated by independent groups and individuals. There is no joint comms to use effectively. No leadership exists and none is desired. There are no broadly used sites for notifications or organization. Even if those things existed, the one key element that doesn’t exist is trust. HS absolutely does not trust null alliances and trust the devs even less (for good reason). Any effort pushed by these groups is deemed untrustworthy and broadly avoided. Every effort by these groups to “make HS fight” has always bee a huge failure and will always fail. That’s not saying some individuals won’t try it. It will simply never work on any kind of large or even moderate scale. I would say that every failed attempt actually makes the situation worse. So no. HS couldn’t create such a group even if there was an underlying desire present. HS is what it is just as null is what it is. Saying HS could do all these things is like saying a car should fly like an airplane. All the car has to is be something completely different than what it is. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 9:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-of-the-implications-of-niarjas-invasion/260741/1186 "2020-09-01T21:42:51Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > The differnece is that a freighter in Niarja can be tken down by a single pilot. If that’s the threat then Niarja can be secured by a group of 2-3 players investing a few minutes of time, a very low investment for shortening the route to/from Jita. > You seem to think that nothing will change and people will just be doing the same amount in Domain and hauling it round. That’s just not the case. As the cost of shipping to and from the market goes up in Domain, the benefit of being there over another region drops and less people do it so activity just moves. You’re assuming that Niarja is the only change, rather than Niarja being the first step in CCP’s plan to break up highsec into islands separated by lowsec/nullsec. You can adapt to one system flipping, but eventually you’re going to face a choice between being locked into a single region (preferably with a scarcity mechanic to punish you for it) or figuring out a way to get through those non-highsec systems. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 9:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-of-the-implications-of-niarjas-invasion/260741/1187 "2020-09-01T21:44:53Z")
> [@Gabriel\_Eban](#): > > Saying HS could do all these things is like saying a car should fly like an airplane. That’s a terrible analogy. A car is an inanimate object that has no agency, it is what it is and that’s the end of it. Highsec is a group of players with agency, they are capable of changing how they play the game if they wish to do so. Their inability to organize an effective response to threats is a direct consequence of their continued choice to reject organization. Whether or not you think their reasons for making that choice are valid or good is irrelevant, it is still a choice. ---
**Author:** ![Herzog\_Wolfhammer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/herzog_wolfhammer/32/452132_2.png) [@Herzog\_Wolfhammer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Herzog_Wolfhammer)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2020, 5:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-of-the-implications-of-niarjas-invasion/260741/1189 "2020-09-02T05:06:37Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Highsec islands exist and for the most part they are empty. So the goal was to fill them up perhaps ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2020, 11:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-of-the-implications-of-niarjas-invasion/260741/1190 "2020-09-02T11:41:40Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > some people just want a bit of low effort, drop-in drop-out PvE Which is fine, but why would that be easier in an over populated region like Cal HS rather than in Null under an umbrella? ---
**Author:** ![Sylvia\_Kildare](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sylvia_kildare/32/416948_2.png) [@Sylvia\_Kildare](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sylvia_Kildare)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2020, 11:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-of-the-implications-of-niarjas-invasion/260741/1191 "2020-09-02T11:59:27Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I already stated what I think the “problem” is, though it’s not so much a problem as just the effect I think it will have. And that is that it will just move people away from Amarr space and further consolidate them in and around Caldari space. Maybe. But more and more Caldari systems are going to continue to fall to full, final, whatever lim status. Jita might eventually be so pinned in that Amarr is then a more attractive choice. Or, as some have posited, Hek should be the center of the HS trade/market universe since it’s in the middle of the new Jita-Dodi-Hek-Rens-Amarr linear silk road, rather than just yet another market on the big ol’ heart-shaped loop of olde. ---
**Author:** ![Sylvia\_Kildare](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sylvia_kildare/32/416948_2.png) [@Sylvia\_Kildare](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sylvia_Kildare)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2020, 12:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-of-the-implications-of-niarjas-invasion/260741/1192 "2020-09-02T12:04:25Z")
> [@Gabriel\_Eban](#): > > On issue I see with this argument is the popular mistaken notion that HS has the means to just coordinate large group actions but simply chooses not to. HS couldn’t put a blob together no matter how much some would like to see it happen. There is no social structure to enable forming any such group. There isn’t even a loose confederacy of groups to call on. HS is populated by independent groups and individuals. There is no joint comms to use effectively. No leadership exists and none is desired. There are no broadly used sites for notifications or organization. > > Even if those things existed, the one key element that doesn’t exist is trust. HS absolutely does not trust null alliances and trust the devs even less (for good reason). Any effort pushed by these groups is deemed untrustworthy and broadly avoided. Every effort by these groups to “make HS fight” has always bee a huge failure and will always fail. That’s not saying some individuals won’t try it. It will simply never work on any kind of large or even moderate scale. I would say that every failed attempt actually makes the situation worse. > > So no. HS couldn’t create such a group even if there was an underlying desire present. HS is what it is just as null is what it is. Saying HS could do all these things is like saying a car should fly like an airplane. All the car has to is be something completely different than what it is. Forcing HS to be something other than what it is… is also antithetical to the concept of a sandbox, IMO. That said, I don’t think that HS is any more of a single type of playstyle or player than LS or NS or WH. We tend to be a bit too reductive when speaking of areas of EVE. I’m mostly a HS dweller, but I wouldn’t call myself the typical HSer because for one thing I’ve also been in a WH a lot, enjoy PVP roams through null and low, and do things in HS (and outside of HS) that aren’t as common as most people’s daily tasks. That said, I also just enjoy overkilling L4 missions when I don’t have a lot of time, focus, or energy to devote to the game. And my PC is 7 years old so… yeah, there’s that, too. Game’s been laggy af since Sat night Cloudflare issues for me, though it appeared to be getting better finally on late Tuesday night, praise space jebus. Anyway, that is to say that all areas of EVE space contain multitudes, so let’s try and remember that when balancing them (as CCP) or when tarring them all with too-wide brushes (as a forum). ---
**Author:** ![Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iceacid_frostpacker/32/505689_2.png) [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iceacid_Frostpacker)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2020, 12:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-of-the-implications-of-niarjas-invasion/260741/1193 "2020-09-02T12:30:15Z")
Can only try to imagine how much of a disruption this is for some who are living in the Domain Region. I had been hiding in and around Verge Vendor Region and just today decided to shoot a moon with a probe for the mineral report thinking that the non blue star systems are safe from being invaded. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2020, 4:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-of-the-implications-of-niarjas-invasion/260741/1194 "2020-09-02T16:45:07Z")
> [@Sylvia\_Kildare](#): > > Or, as some have posited, Hek should be the center of the HS trade/market universe since it’s in the middle of the new Jita-Dodi-Hek-Rens-Amarr linear silk road, rather than just yet another market on the big ol’ heart-shaped loop of olde. I think that was me. Anyway, the problem with Minmatar space is that, well, it’s _Minmatar_ space. It has no interesting features of note. There’s just _nothing there_, like a Ken doll. Caldari space is like that too, but at least it’s populated by virtue of its history. Location-wise, it _currently_ makes sense for a new central location to be somewhere in Gallente space, or a high-sec area somewhere near Molden Heath/Derelik. If there was a high-sec connection between Amarr and Gallente space directly (in Genesis), that would’ve been a prime spot. Yulai, in fact, was exactly that as some point. A good hub area needs to be equidistant from all other areas of space, have access to a cluster of decent agents, and have access to low-sec in reasonable proximity. I’m definitely going to wear my “Make Yulai Great Again” cap from now on. Alternatively, sever _all_ high-sec routes between the four major empires, and see what kind of effect it might have on the game. After the initial whiners leave, things might become really interesting. ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2020, 4:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-of-the-implications-of-niarjas-invasion/260741/1196 "2020-09-02T16:49:24Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Anyway, the problem with Minmatar space is that, well, it’s _Minmatar_ space omg that girl is a poet beautiful words 😢 ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2020, 4:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-of-the-implications-of-niarjas-invasion/260741/1197 "2020-09-02T16:49:25Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > It’s not, but the null gameplay normally comes with other requirements too and less asset safety when it comes to not playing for a certain amount of time. Thats fair. Though apart from Jita, is there a reason for PvEing in Caldari slums than the Civilised world down Amarr way? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-of-the-implications-of-niarjas-invasion/260741.md?page=46) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/discussion-of-the-implications-of-niarjas-invasion/260741.md?page=48)