# Dishonor of Caldari Soldier **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [July 12, 2018, 10:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dishonor-of-caldari-soldier/88854 "2018-07-12T22:37:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Nahine\_Heluene](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nahine_heluene/32/144750_2.png) [@Nahine\_Heluene](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nahine_Heluene)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 10:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dishonor-of-caldari-soldier/88854/81 "2018-07-24T22:35:32Z")
> [@Rinai\_Vero](#): > > My regret is that the coward fled before he could be captured and given the same traitor’s death Eturrer got. This sort of bloodthirst serves to suggest that Eturrer was the true victor of the Tripwire incident. ---
**Author:** ![Rinai\_Vero](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rinai_vero/32/390870_2.png) [@Rinai\_Vero](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rinai_Vero)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 12:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dishonor-of-caldari-soldier/88854/82 "2018-07-25T00:14:07Z")
My view is that Kim is crazy and twisted enough to justify anything to herself out of her hatred of the Federation. Asking “who benefits?” is the kind of thing that works with rational actors, not crazy people. No doubt in her mind this episode reflects well on her “honor” as a “Caldari Officer.” I wouldn’t put orchestrating this as a false flag past her. ---
**Author:** ![MantelGlobalIndustries](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mantelglobalindustries/32/380599_2.png) [@MantelGlobalIndustries](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MantelGlobalIndustries)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 12:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dishonor-of-caldari-soldier/88854/83 "2018-07-25T00:16:19Z")
At least our judicial system does not authorise or promote the public display and involvement in executions televised and transmitted throughout the entirety of our sovereign space. Whilst Grand Admiral Eturrer was one of the greatest turncoats of our current era, I’d have thought that for all the pontification about common decency and the inalienable rights of man from those in the Federation that one would’ve found his quite frankly disgusting method of execution to be deplorable. Capital punishment is the highest of penalties that can be imposed upon another and should be treated in a way that reflects the gravity of such a sentence, not used as a means of boosting the flagging ratings and public approval of a flagging President willing to sacrifice a living human to the curdled cries of a baying mob. And certainly not for something as shallow as ‘entertainment’, as if one could put public execution by immolation in the same category as one of the Fed’s vapid holoflicks that are churned out by the bushel. ---
**Author:** ![Deitra\_Vess](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/deitra_vess/32/249726_2.png) [@Deitra\_Vess](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Deitra_Vess)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 12:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dishonor-of-caldari-soldier/88854/84 "2018-07-25T00:21:46Z")
I understand where your coming from on this, honestly I can’t say I would even disagree. She couldn’t be that daft to expose what could easily be taken as a demerit on herself (letting those under her command be able to have such a situation occur) and blaming its results on the enemy. There’s crazy then there’s idiotic. One could say she is crazy I suppose but she isn’t _that_ idiotic. ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 12:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dishonor-of-caldari-soldier/88854/85 "2018-07-25T00:41:00Z")
> [@Rinai\_Vero](#): > > My view is that Kim is crazy and twisted That is not “view”, that is a public insult, slander and hostile propaganda. But I really don’t expect anything better from someone wearing FDU badge. ---
**Author:** ![Agiri\_Falken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/agiri_falken/32/84648_2.png) [@Agiri\_Falken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Agiri_Falken)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 1:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dishonor-of-caldari-soldier/88854/86 "2018-07-25T01:08:12Z")
I have but one final word to leave here… Foreordained. ---
**Author:** ![Claudia\_Osyn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/claudia_osyn/32/387939_2.png) [@Claudia\_Osyn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Claudia_Osyn)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 1:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dishonor-of-caldari-soldier/88854/87 "2018-07-25T01:42:57Z")
No, it’s a view. I’ve had people refer to me as crazy and/or twisted before, I tend to take it as a compliment. Also, I hooked up Ms Antolliere with a change of Identity and enough cash to get anywhere in the cluster she wants and start a new life. So that’s a thing. ---
**Author:** ![Rinai\_Vero](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rinai_vero/32/390870_2.png) [@Rinai\_Vero](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rinai_Vero)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 1:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dishonor-of-caldari-soldier/88854/88 "2018-07-25T01:48:07Z")
Again with the thin legal understanding. Slander is spoken, defamation is written. In order for a statement to be considered either, it must be proven false. Further, you and I are both public figures and the issue of your sanity is one very much in public controversy. That makes it open for public discussion. But, I am not unmoved by a genuine desire for privacy. If you are so concerned with your reputation, I would be more than glad to retract my opinion should you retire from public view and cease making public statements. ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 2:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dishonor-of-caldari-soldier/88854/89 "2018-07-25T02:08:44Z")
Uh … Ms. Vero? Maybe it’s different where you are, but … Slander is spoken, _libel_ is written. Defamation is an attack on reputation, whether written or spoken-- a libel or slander. ---
**Author:** ![Rinai\_Vero](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rinai_vero/32/390870_2.png) [@Rinai\_Vero](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rinai_Vero)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 2:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dishonor-of-caldari-soldier/88854/90 "2018-07-25T02:10:58Z")
Ya ya, defamation is the umbrella term for both. Point is slander is spoken, not written. ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 2:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dishonor-of-caldari-soldier/88854/91 "2018-07-25T02:12:16Z")
Okay. Then maybe just be an itty bit careful that you get legal stuff right if you’re going to take people to task for not understanding it? ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 2:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dishonor-of-caldari-soldier/88854/92 "2018-07-25T02:13:13Z")
> [@Rinai\_Vero](#): > > The Caldari “justice” system continues prove to be as fair as it is imaginative. A conviction based on thin evidence and thinner legal grounds. As much as I may detest Diana’s insistence on publicly shaming this man’s friends and family by their associations, this statement is just patently ridiculous. While the whole ‘collaboration’ terminology makes things sound far more serious than they are, as a crewman on a militia ship, he definitely crossed the line into ‘fraternization with the enemy’. Even outside an active warzone, that’d be grounds in most nations to be cashiered and face at least 5-20 in military presence. And since he was apparently caught in the act, it’s pretty solid evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Rinai\_Vero](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rinai_vero/32/390870_2.png) [@Rinai\_Vero](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rinai_Vero)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 2:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dishonor-of-caldari-soldier/88854/93 "2018-07-25T02:22:22Z")
Lets look at what passes for the law Kim is operating from: "Collaboration with enemy (assisting enemy) implies giving aid or comfort to enemy. It may include: Communicating without authority with an enemy Giving an enemy information that would or might be useful to him Providing an enemy with supplies Harbouring or protecting an enemy Serving with enemy forces or participating in propaganda having been taken prisoner." Kim was specifically asked what “information” was given, and provided no answer. Thus, the conviction relies on “Communicating without authority with an enemy.” So called “fraternization” you alluded to would seem to fall under this section as well. Of the quoted violations, this section is obviously the least serious. Conviction under its terms implies a lack of evidence to support any of the more serious offenses. That’s what I call thin. ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 2:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dishonor-of-caldari-soldier/88854/94 "2018-07-25T02:32:08Z")
If only to avoid embarrassment, Ms. Vero, one who presumes to correct another’s grammar should maybe try to avoid making a grammatical error in the process. The importance of the correction doesn’t make that much less true I don’t think. … and grammar isn’t the only field where such a principle might apply. Although … it might also usefully demonstrate a quality we all have in common: we’re all (sometimes embarrassingly) human. ---
**Author:** ![Rinai\_Vero](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rinai_vero/32/390870_2.png) [@Rinai\_Vero](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rinai_Vero)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 2:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dishonor-of-caldari-soldier/88854/95 "2018-07-25T02:36:40Z")
Are you still talking about the slander / libel thing? That was a legal nitpick, not a grammatical one. Did you not already make that point? Did I not already acknowledge it? ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 2:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dishonor-of-caldari-soldier/88854/96 "2018-07-25T02:38:14Z")
Oh-- I see. You’re talking to Arrendis, not to me. I apologize. ---
**Author:** ![Rinai\_Vero](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rinai_vero/32/390870_2.png) [@Rinai\_Vero](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rinai_Vero)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 2:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dishonor-of-caldari-soldier/88854/97 "2018-07-25T02:39:22Z")
No worries. I could have made that more clear. I’m still working out this new fluid router interface the IGS switched over to. ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 2:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dishonor-of-caldari-soldier/88854/98 "2018-07-25T02:49:09Z")
> [@Rinai\_Vero](#): > > Further, you and I are both public figures and the issue of your sanity is one very much in public controversy. That makes it open for public discussion. My sanity neither is, nor ever was a public controversy. I am a former marine and we were running psychological and medical evaluation every year. Unlike Federation, where soldiers visit psychologists on daily basis, we do not allow mentally unhealthy personnel to wear weapons. Moreover, my medical papers are available on request. Those who doubt my sanity without checking the facts first, are just trolls. Or simply trying to insult me because of my succeesses on the battlefield. > [@Rinai\_Vero](#): > > In order for a statement to be considered either, it must be proven false. Quite counterwise. If you want to accuse anyone in something it’s YOU who must bring the evidence instead of asking them to prove any deranged assumption about them to be wrong. When it is a bare word against bare word, one who is being spreading defamation is considered guilty. ---
**Author:** ![Rinai\_Vero](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rinai_vero/32/390870_2.png) [@Rinai\_Vero](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rinai_Vero)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 3:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dishonor-of-caldari-soldier/88854/99 "2018-07-25T03:03:01Z")
I doubt anyone cares about your medical records. I certainly don’t. My opinion of your sanity is based on years worth of observing your unstable behavior. You don’t have to like my opinion, in fact it is more than a little pleasing to me that it vexes you. This entire exchange is a pretty good example of what I’m talking about. A more well adjusted person would have simply dismissed my opinion as irrelevant, and not dignified it further. Anyone observing is perfectly capable of putting together that we are enemies who have little if any respect for each other. Instead of being secure enough in your “reputation” you elevate what would otherwise be an insignificant jibe into outlandish accusations of “slander.” You treat my opinion as if it has actual weight and capability to damage you. I suppose I should be flattered. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 3:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dishonor-of-caldari-soldier/88854/100 "2018-07-25T03:16:20Z")
> [@Rinai\_Vero](#): > > Thus, the conviction relies on “Communicating without authority with an enemy.” No, actually, because their romantic liaisons occurred on a CalMil facility, it’d fall under “Harbouring or protecting an enemy”. And if you dislike that idea, you should probably check the Federation’s UCMJ regarding fraternization with the enemy, as well. Because I promise, it’s in there. > [@Rinai\_Vero](#): > > I suppose I should be flattered. Nah, she does that with everyone. I saw her cut someone’s hands off for trying to offer her food. It was weird. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dishonor-of-caldari-soldier/88854.md?page=4) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/dishonor-of-caldari-soldier/88854.md?page=6)