# Diversity survey concerns **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [August 18, 2023, 11:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/diversity-survey-concerns/416449 "2023-08-18T23:56:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Mr\_Epeen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mr_epeen/32/373308_2.png) [@Mr\_Epeen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mr_Epeen)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2023, 1:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/diversity-survey-concerns/416449/134 "2023-08-22T01:56:00Z")
It seems like more than half the players in this forum (and the game in general) are men pretending to be woman that act like a woman in that special way that only a guy who has never met one in real life think they act. And then there’s the [cloppers](https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Clopper). This forum is a magnet for them. You have the right in our society to be whatever you feel like identifying as. But I have the right to laugh at you for your choices. At least for now. Mr Epeen 🕶 ---
**Author:** ![Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iceacid_frostpacker/32/505689_2.png) [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iceacid_Frostpacker)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2023, 2:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/diversity-survey-concerns/416449/135 "2023-08-22T02:06:14Z")
_We_ are nor man or woman as _we_ are the Frostpacker ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Epeen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mr_epeen/32/373308_2.png) [@Mr\_Epeen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mr_Epeen)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2023, 2:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/diversity-survey-concerns/416449/136 "2023-08-22T02:10:16Z")
You are certainly unique. I’ll give you that. Mr Epeen 🕶 ---
**Author:** ![Dylana\_Aivo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dylana_aivo/32/383196_2.png) [@Dylana\_Aivo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dylana_Aivo)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2023, 2:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/diversity-survey-concerns/416449/137 "2023-08-22T02:44:55Z")
Well, this became nonproductive quickly. Y’all uh…just keep doing whatever it is you’re doing. ---
**Author:** ![Anthony\_FatTony\_Amico](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anthony_fattony_amico/32/391106_2.png) [@Anthony\_FatTony\_Amico](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anthony_FatTony_Amico)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2023, 2:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/diversity-survey-concerns/416449/138 "2023-08-22T02:49:48Z")
There are actually alot of men who are women characters in the game. Source? literally listening to VC, connecting who talks to their characters. This has existed since the birth of gaming and the character building screen. ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2023, 3:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/diversity-survey-concerns/416449/139 "2023-08-22T03:04:52Z")
> [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > If they don’t consent, they don’t get access to in game chat. A bit like if you don’t consent to PvP, you don’t get access to undock? ---
**Author:** ![Rail\_J\_kar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rail_j_kar/32/374429_2.png) [@Rail\_J\_kar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rail_J_kar)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2023, 3:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/diversity-survey-concerns/416449/140 "2023-08-22T03:06:38Z")
> [@Zaera\_Keena](#): > > > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > > > If they don’t consent, they don’t get access to in game chat. > > A bit like if you don’t consent to PvP, you don’t get access to undock? exactly. ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2023, 4:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/diversity-survey-concerns/416449/141 "2023-08-22T04:43:12Z")
This thread is a number one object lesson on why you don’t see more women in EVE. (Not necessarily why we don’t _exist_, but why you don’t _see_ us.) And yea, I’m a woman, an eve player since 2004, and I’ve been harassed and ridiculed because of my RL gender in this game. Some of the times it’s been passing microaggressions; there’s two more serious cases and a lot of stuff in between. I won’t go into details because (ironically) I don’t trust everyone on these forums not to use them against me. EDITed to add: I know of several women who have quit either EVE completely or resigned from some position in their community, where discrimination and genger-based attacks have been a major part (if not the only part) of their reasons to do so. At least two active FCs among them. ---
**Author:** ![Melicien\_Tetro](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/melicien_tetro/32/460693_2.png) [@Melicien\_Tetro](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Melicien_Tetro)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2023, 5:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/diversity-survey-concerns/416449/142 "2023-08-22T05:01:57Z")
> It’s not “IRL politics” to ask women if they think the reason other women don’t play EvE is because of incessant rape threats, and sexual harassment. It’s a pretty good question, and I’m surprised CCP hasn’t asked us about this before. based aiko Look, if Aiko can get this… If you’ve got “Diversity Concerns,” please do some soul searching ---
**Author:** ![Rhivre](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rhivre/32/358488_2.png) [@Rhivre](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rhivre)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2023, 5:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/diversity-survey-concerns/416449/143 "2023-08-22T05:58:33Z")
The survey asked quite a few questions about women and harassment or women and experiences in Eve. Maybe they only sent that to women? ---
**Author:** ![Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/uriel_the_flame/32/490165_2.png) [@Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Uriel_the_Flame)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2023, 6:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/diversity-survey-concerns/416449/144 "2023-08-22T06:00:40Z")
So that now CCP seems to be open to change on its views and approach according to this survey my question is new SKINs that fit into this new approach when? [![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/a/4/a4dcdfa732e991fe879c0e89dbbd3979efd0bdb1.jpeg) ](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/a/4/a4dcdfa732e991fe879c0e89dbbd3979efd0bdb1.jpeg) [![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/5/8/584f0e4a1d04c2b5c4165c8e758f43b698c69dff.jpg) ](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/5/8/584f0e4a1d04c2b5c4165c8e758f43b698c69dff.jpg) [![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/c/b/cb16cee18bb08834fe6453aef5bc0248f37dbf6e.jpeg) ](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/c/b/cb16cee18bb08834fe6453aef5bc0248f37dbf6e.jpeg) ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/1/0/4/104cafde2637d0f82319946202da1e9124856e62.jpeg) 😉 > [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](#): > > leave my personal life On the contrary, `this` is your personal life. 😉 > [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](#): > > _We_ are nor man or woman as _we_ are the Frostpacker And that sentence should end with a quote about **`high expectations`**. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![New\_Order\_Enforcer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/new_order_enforcer/32/387867_2.png) [@New\_Order\_Enforcer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/New_Order_Enforcer)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2023, 6:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/diversity-survey-concerns/416449/145 "2023-08-22T06:32:55Z")
Exactly, a bunch of salty-white-boomermales with a brain full of conspiracy theories. Fortunately CCP is finally taking action towards a more inclusive game with less salty miners. We do not need you, mansplainers. Get out of EVE. ---
**Author:** ![Bull\_Toad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bull_toad/32/382773_2.png) [@Bull\_Toad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bull_Toad)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2023, 6:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/diversity-survey-concerns/416449/146 "2023-08-22T06:35:25Z")
> [@New\_Order\_Enforcer](#): > > Exactly, a bunch of salty-white-boomermales with a brain full of conspiracy theories. > > Fortunately CCP is finally taking action towards a more inclusive game with less salty miners. > > We do not need you, mansplainers. Get out of EVE Thanks for womansplaining this to us ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2023, 6:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/diversity-survey-concerns/416449/147 "2023-08-22T06:38:34Z")
> [@New\_Order\_Enforcer](#): > > Fortunately CCP is finally taking action towards a more inclusive game I’m not holding my breath. Let’s be real; it’s not like anyone actually interested in the matter needs a _damned poll_ to find out if there’s harassment or discrimination in EVE. But it’s a step, I guess. Every little counts. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2023, 7:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/diversity-survey-concerns/416449/148 "2023-08-22T07:38:36Z")
Inching closer back to topic, and away from the personal attacks subtopic (which are an interpretation of some of the survey questions, not the actual questions) 1. In general, does a pvp based game attract all genders equally ? ---
**Author:** ![Rail\_J\_kar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rail_j_kar/32/374429_2.png) [@Rail\_J\_kar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rail_J_kar)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2023, 8:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/diversity-survey-concerns/416449/149 "2023-08-22T08:29:51Z")
> [@New\_Order\_Enforcer](#): > > Exactly, a bunch of salty-white-boomermales with a brain full of conspiracy theories. > > Fortunately CCP is finally taking action towards a more inclusive game with less salty miners. > > We do not need you, mansplainers. Get out of EVE. Spaz much? > [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > In general, does a pvp based game attract all genders equally ? I think it’s quite obvious that the answer is no. Certainly there are many women who enjoy pvp games, but your ratio of men in those environments are going to be much higher. Imo it’s kind of a dumb question. It seems to be entirely unaware that differences between the choices of men and women exist. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2023, 8:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/diversity-survey-concerns/416449/150 "2023-08-22T08:41:12Z")
> [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > Imo it’s kind of a dumb question. It seems to be entirely unaware that differences between the choices of men and women exist. Certainly, it’s kind of a dumb question to people who are aware of their environment. But for those living in a bubble, it requires some thought. That was the intended purpose of that post, to remind some people that indeed there are basic, statistically significant differences 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Rail\_J\_kar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rail_j_kar/32/374429_2.png) [@Rail\_J\_kar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rail_J_kar)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2023, 8:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/diversity-survey-concerns/416449/151 "2023-08-22T08:54:25Z")
Ahh well… sorry for spoiling your fun. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Cypherous](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cypherous/32/499883_2.png) [@Cypherous](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cypherous)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2023, 9:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/diversity-survey-concerns/416449/152 "2023-08-22T09:00:38Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > > [@Cypherous](#): > > > > The real world is also trending towards that hellscape > > As a student of history I can assure you the current world is blissfully sane compared with most of the past. For now sure, but give it time ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2023, 9:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/diversity-survey-concerns/416449/153 "2023-08-22T09:01:47Z")
> [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > In general, does a pvp based game attract all genders equally ? I doubt there’s actual research on it, and the topic is extremely hard to research, because people of any gender do not form their preferences in vacuum, but instead their preferences are also influenced by what society considers appropriate or typical for them. Psychologically, many (most? but not all) humans have wiring in their brains that at an early age (3-5) makes them seek validation as and from what they perceive as their own gender (which usually, but not always, corresponds to whatever gender society has assigned to them based on physical appearance). This means that little boys and girls become aware that oh wow, we are boys and girls. At that stage, they do not magically inherently decide that because I am a boy I like toy trucks and guns and do not like dolls. Instead, what they do is they _look around them_ and find _older boys and men_ and see what _they_ do and seem to mimic them, and develop preferences to that effect. With development and by full adulthood, many of these preferences are so internalized they are part of personality, and this way gender stereotypes get renewed each generation. Any small inherent differences (that probably also do exist) get reinforced and exaggerated this way. This process is largely automatic and not something people do or ask kids to do on purpose. Thus, what we say about whether “does pvp attract all genders equally” in part _influences_ whether pvp attracts all genders equally. All that theory aside; a lot of women enjoy pvp. Not all people do, but many people of all genders definitely. And yes, there are many women who’d enjoy more of it, if in this world it was not pretty much _inevitable_ that you get ■■■■-talked _about your gender_ if you like pvp and are not a man. (Everyone faces ■■■■-talk online, sadly. But men, generally, don’t face it because or about they are men. Unless they are transmen, anyway.) The main thing is not whether we should _attract_ any particular gender. The main thing is we should not push any away. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/diversity-survey-concerns/416449.md?page=6) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/diversity-survey-concerns/416449.md?page=8)