# Do you think eves population is declining or incresing and why **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [March 5, 2024, 10:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/do-you-think-eves-population-is-declining-or-incresing-and-why/441935 "2024-03-05T22:20:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2024, 3:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/do-you-think-eves-population-is-declining-or-incresing-and-why/441935/325 "2024-07-27T15:41:45Z")
> [@Syzygium](#): > > so even not-so-clever people can understand it So you not one of them ? You do realise that most dumb people don’t know that they are dumb - right? Intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2024, 4:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/do-you-think-eves-population-is-declining-or-incresing-and-why/441935/326 "2024-07-27T16:29:54Z")
> [@Syzygium](#): > > I do not know if Euler, Newton and Gauss were violent men, but they would probably gang up and beat you up if you would ever argue for any cause with “averages”. You gonna bring in that T Rex as well ? I mean…any argument involving averages _has_ to involve a T Rex. Can I bring my friend George Carlin along and Mr Dunning and Kruger ?..They seem to know what the problem is… ![fccc87b7b1fca8e2fc843c37374d289a](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/e/3/9/e3952b545f8a53e8e89185b6724e9a20ec43b65e.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2024, 4:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/do-you-think-eves-population-is-declining-or-incresing-and-why/441935/327 "2024-07-27T16:43:30Z")
OMG they brought out the T.rex ![Trexalert](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/b/1/d/b1d2f4a7c0bb702416c30545134b19c5adcb4490.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Laubrani](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/laubrani/32/430644_2.png) [@Laubrani](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Laubrani)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2024, 7:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/do-you-think-eves-population-is-declining-or-incresing-and-why/441935/328 "2024-07-27T19:49:35Z")
> [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > That is where you made your mistake: you don’t know what the CCP speaker defined as “average player”. Indeed we do not, but it is definitely a definition that makes the number low, and does not represent the active players. ---
**Author:** ![Laubrani](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/laubrani/32/430644_2.png) [@Laubrani](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Laubrani)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2024, 7:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/do-you-think-eves-population-is-declining-or-incresing-and-why/441935/329 "2024-07-27T19:53:59Z")
When you throw a picture like that in, give a link so we can watch it, and see if he even explains things like how the heck he got such a number. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2024, 11:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/do-you-think-eves-population-is-declining-or-incresing-and-why/441935/330 "2024-07-27T23:24:49Z")
> [@Laubrani](#): > > but it is definitely a definition that makes the number low, “low” does not mean “wrong” average “low” does not mean “wrong” inclusion criteria > [@Laubrani](#): > > and does not represent the active players. …according to you, who would change the inclusion criteria to fit your desired outcome of the analysis ? The only thing we can agree upon is that CCP Björn should have explained his inclusion criterium for “Average EVE Player” and “Active Player”, if only to avoid this kind of nonsense back and forth - again assuming people would start using their brain instead of their saliva glands. The inclusion criterium for “Average FF22 Player”. however, was clarified: **831** active player attendants (a count made a week before the FF) who, as a group, represent **roughly 0.3%** of the active players. Guess how that extrapolates back to the other 99.7%: poorly ! ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/2/3/d/23d993829081d466609fbd63b6e485a67d7a23bd.jpeg) What could you possibly deduce from that ? Well, people who spend money by going to fanfest have a higher than average chance to have a higher than average number of active EvE accounts. No more, no less. At least _they_ are not average. > [@Laubrani](#): > > give a link [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDkVKXgdjds](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDkVKXgdjds) Final remarks… As nothing was calculated on multiboxing, let alone its evolution over time - which would require a time derivative - that part of the discussion is speculative. There’s also nothing wrong with multiboxing _in se_. ---
**Author:** ![Vokan\_Narkar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vokan_narkar/32/326293_2.png) [@Vokan\_Narkar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vokan_Narkar)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2024, 1:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/do-you-think-eves-population-is-declining-or-incresing-and-why/441935/331 "2024-07-28T01:39:24Z")
This is “pay2win is a myth” all over again. @Altara_Zemara is a zealous fanatic you can’t reason with. She will never accept that the game could be pay to win or in this case steadily losing players because if it was true, then she could not play this game any longer. ---
**Author:** ![Vokan\_Narkar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vokan_narkar/32/326293_2.png) [@Vokan\_Narkar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vokan_Narkar)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2024, 2:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/do-you-think-eves-population-is-declining-or-incresing-and-why/441935/332 "2024-07-28T02:08:06Z")
If the data only included players who attended Fanfest, then these statistics are completely useless. Altara originally presented it without this information so I thought that the data included all players in EVE like CPP did with yearly statistics. Btw, were there yearly statistics for 2023? I don’t remember getting email. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2024, 2:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/do-you-think-eves-population-is-declining-or-incresing-and-why/441935/333 "2024-07-28T02:38:33Z")
> [@Vokan\_Narkar](#): > > @Altara_Zemara is a zealous fanatic you can’t reason with. She will never accept that the game could be pay to win Lol…I _don’t care_ if it is ‘pay to win’. I _don’t care_ if some people have 127 accounts. I really don’t understand what the supposed _problem_ is. Eve is supposed to be a dystopian universe, full of lying, scamming, spying, intrigue, ganking, and so on…and the truly perplexing thing is why anyone expects any of this to be ‘fair’. I _don’t care_ if it is unfair and that negatively impacts me…as it just presents more of a challenge, which I like. I’m perplexed as to why so many people spend so much of their time bleating about Eve. Personally I think these people _poisoning the well_ whilst pretending to care about player count is actually _the_ biggest cause of players leaving. The irony ! ---
**Author:** ![Vokan\_Narkar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vokan_narkar/32/326293_2.png) [@Vokan\_Narkar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vokan_Narkar)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2024, 2:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/do-you-think-eves-population-is-declining-or-incresing-and-why/441935/334 "2024-07-28T02:51:57Z")
Yeah, we saw that in the thread you started yourself lol. 100 posts on a subject you don’t care about. 59 posts in this thread already, more than double the next most frequent poster. You truly don’t care at all. ---
**Author:** ![Anthony\_FatTony\_Amico](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anthony_fattony_amico/32/391106_2.png) [@Anthony\_FatTony\_Amico](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anthony_FatTony_Amico)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2024, 2:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/do-you-think-eves-population-is-declining-or-incresing-and-why/441935/335 "2024-07-28T02:56:08Z")
I am on the camp that more people are multiboxing and there are less total real humans in the game. ---
**Author:** ![Fano\_Alabel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/fano_alabel/32/399859_2.png) [@Fano\_Alabel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Fano_Alabel)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2024, 7:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/do-you-think-eves-population-is-declining-or-incresing-and-why/441935/336 "2024-07-28T07:37:27Z")
That is the best reply I have seen in this Forum so far. ---
**Author:** ![Laubrani](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/laubrani/32/430644_2.png) [@Laubrani](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Laubrani)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2024, 10:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/do-you-think-eves-population-is-declining-or-incresing-and-why/441935/337 "2024-07-28T10:14:54Z")
> [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > > [@Laubrani](#): > > > > but it is definitely a definition that makes the number low, > > “low” does not mean “wrong” average > “low” does not mean “wrong” inclusion criteria I never said it did. I said in this specific case, the criteria has to be picked to make a low number. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2024, 10:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/do-you-think-eves-population-is-declining-or-incresing-and-why/441935/338 "2024-07-28T10:36:34Z")
> [@Vokan\_Narkar](#): > > If the data only included players who attended Fanfest, then these statistics are completely useless. That depends on what you mean with “the data”. What I clarified in the above was the background information (inclusion criterium) for the orange parts on the histogram that Kezrai [posted](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/do-you-think-eves-population-is-declining-or-incresing-and-why/441935/287) above. This orange part is a **subset of the grey part** in that same slide (_i.e.,_ the set of “active players”, which is the total set), **highlighted** separately for - I assume - a “we-love-you-FF-attendees” moment during the presentation. It is just that. “The data” include, in ccp Björn’s own words, all “active players”. Altara did show the full data, only the histogram itself was omitted - the words and numbers are still the same, with or without histogram. Guessing as to what the real inclusion criteria were to define “active players” is a waste of time, lol. > [@Vokan\_Narkar](#): > > were there yearly statistics for 2023? I don’t remember getting email. The data presentation on FF23 did not include the part on number of accounts per active player. That’s on YT as well. > [@Laubrani](#): > > the criteria has to be picked to make a low number. Any criterium will create a subset of the total set, making the number of data points to analyze smaller and more meaningful. That is self-evident. Making a number smaller is not its purpose. The purpose of a selection criterium is to make sure the analysis is done on the correct data points. ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2024, 10:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/do-you-think-eves-population-is-declining-or-incresing-and-why/441935/339 "2024-07-28T10:52:32Z")
> [@Anthony\_FatTony\_Amico](#): > > there are less total real humans in the game. According to **Tinder** , you are a BOT, is this true? ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/3/4/9/3492aca8511b21ee30428077829dd251eee944ea.webp) ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2024, 12:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/do-you-think-eves-population-is-declining-or-incresing-and-why/441935/340 "2024-07-28T12:04:04Z")
> [@Laubrani](#): > > give a link so we can watch it That and various other useful presentations are available from Fanfest 2022. I don’t usually link them because there’s hours of this stuff - it’s too much to keep track of which 5-second slide is shown where. I believe the info you’re interested in starts at around the 12 minute mark of the presentation Wadiest linked, but IIRC, CCP Bjorn doesn’t’ discuss ‘how’ he got his numbers. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2024, 12:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/do-you-think-eves-population-is-declining-or-incresing-and-why/441935/341 "2024-07-28T12:34:38Z")
See…there you go again, twisting things just like you twist the data. It seems to be a compulsive habit. I never said I didn’t care about _anything_. I mentioned specific things. It’s not at all hard to see how a mind that can twist that can remain religiously glued to a twisted data narrative. You think that by spewing out the names of Euler and Newton and invoking a T Rex you somehow have an argument…but to be frank I’ve had more logical and reasoned arguments from flat earthers. An entire thread full of what you yourself _admit_ is just your ‘personal opinion’…versus the actual data. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2024, 12:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/do-you-think-eves-population-is-declining-or-incresing-and-why/441935/342 "2024-07-28T12:53:55Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > You think that by spewing out the names of Euler and Newton and invoking a T Rex you somehow have an argument…but to be frank I’ve had more logical and reasoned arguments from flat earthers. Your comments would be (slightly) more meaningful if you were attributing them to the correct person. I suppose that’s asking a bit much of you though. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2024, 12:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/do-you-think-eves-population-is-declining-or-incresing-and-why/441935/343 "2024-07-28T12:58:01Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Your comments would be (slightly) more meaningful if you were attributing them to the correct person. > > I suppose that’s asking a bit much of you though. Ah well…people who spout BS all look the same here. I can’t tell them apart. ---
**Author:** ![Verlyn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/verlyn/32/435163_2.png) [@Verlyn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Verlyn)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2024, 3:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/do-you-think-eves-population-is-declining-or-incresing-and-why/441935/344 "2024-07-28T15:59:38Z")
Mostly just the pointy fact of decline. You asked for it, I provided. Uncomfortable ? Too bad. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/do-you-think-eves-population-is-declining-or-incresing-and-why/441935.md?page=16) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/do-you-think-eves-population-is-declining-or-incresing-and-why/441935.md?page=18)