# Do you want more protection from people in highsec, or less? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [December 29, 2018, 11:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/do-you-want-more-protection-from-people-in-highsec-or-less/130176 "2018-12-29T11:45:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2019, 5:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/do-you-want-more-protection-from-people-in-highsec-or-less/130176/203 "2019-01-04T17:42:44Z")
> [@Quor\_Dresden](#): > > Thanks for the info. I understand that a difference already exists between security levels. I was suggesting a bigger difference, maybe. I like the way things are. If a change was made I would enjoy trying out new fits. Maybe even try ganking myself… I thought you did, I was more focussed in giving you an idea of the impact, which is pretty big actually. I don’t think that the reaction time should be adjusted much at all myself, however the changes I would make are giving freighters and JF’s the ability to run a BS sized MWD and a cloak, blocking -10’s from NPC stations and doing something about loot scooping through a DST. Go ahead try ganking, it is fun and a part of Eve no matter what people tell you, but do note that even ganking needs to have the correct balance. Personally I think miner ganking is pretty good now, however bumping is a really naff mechanic every which way I look at it from the angle of the freighter player and it needs to be reduced in efficiency in some way. > [@Rexxar\_Santaro](#): > > Thanks for the suggestions referred to a Capital Jump Drive E-War. I had wrong thoughts referred to it due to a bad article. The next descriptions confused me also I can quite understand that, reading the warp disruptor description makes my head explode…, doubt gnaws at me, lol. ---
**Author:** ![Siegfried\_Cohenberg](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/siegfried_cohenberg/32/515703_2.png) [@Siegfried\_Cohenberg](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Siegfried_Cohenberg)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2019, 7:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/do-you-want-more-protection-from-people-in-highsec-or-less/130176/204 "2019-01-04T19:55:08Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > bumping is a really naff mechanic every which way I look at it from the angle of the freighter player and it needs to be reduced in efficiency in some way. you can count the number of freighter bumpers in the game on both hands mechanic is super balanced ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2019, 7:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/do-you-want-more-protection-from-people-in-highsec-or-less/130176/205 "2019-01-04T19:59:16Z")
There is no such a “freighter bumper” mechanic. There is only “bumper” mechanism. Just because a mechanism requires 15 alts in order to be isk positive does not mean it’s balanced. ---
**Author:** ![Siegfried\_Cohenberg](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/siegfried_cohenberg/32/515703_2.png) [@Siegfried\_Cohenberg](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Siegfried_Cohenberg)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2019, 8:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/do-you-want-more-protection-from-people-in-highsec-or-less/130176/206 "2019-01-04T20:00:58Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > Just because a mechanism requires 15 alts in order to be isk positive does not mean it’s balanced. elaborate on this bit, I dont think I understand ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2019, 8:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/do-you-want-more-protection-from-people-in-highsec-or-less/130176/207 "2019-01-04T20:10:26Z")
What did you not understand ? You say that few people abusing a mechanism in HS is a proof that this mechanism is balanced. I say that this mechanism requires lots of alts to be of any use, meaning the number of people abusing it may be totally decoupled from the actual balance. Other activities may be more interesting for people with the same number of alts (rorqual multiboxing ?). It does not mean the mechanism is balanced. ---
**Author:** ![Siegfried\_Cohenberg](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/siegfried_cohenberg/32/515703_2.png) [@Siegfried\_Cohenberg](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Siegfried_Cohenberg)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2019, 8:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/do-you-want-more-protection-from-people-in-highsec-or-less/130176/208 "2019-01-04T20:21:59Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > I say that this mechanism requires lots of alts to be of any use this is wrong, you only need 1 character to bump, and only 1 character to see financial gain > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > It does not mean the mechanism is balanced. the mechanic is so underused that only a couple of people use it to their advantage on the regular. People like myself and my friends. Thats it. The number of people that haul or mine, outnumber players like myself by the thousands. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2019, 9:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/do-you-want-more-protection-from-people-in-highsec-or-less/130176/209 "2019-01-04T21:02:56Z")
What source do you have that I don’t use this mechanism for myself ? Because, according to my own sources, I use it - but only when I can use it and make profit out of only ONE alt. (That is, not against haulers) > [@Siegfried\_Cohenberg](#): > > this is wrong, you only need 1 character to bump You have reading issues, I’m afraid. I did not claim the opposite. > [@Siegfried\_Cohenberg](#): > > and only 1 character to see financial gain killing freighter in HS with only one alt is viable? say again ? ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2019, 9:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/do-you-want-more-protection-from-people-in-highsec-or-less/130176/210 "2019-01-04T21:07:17Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > ![](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/siegfried_cohenberg/40/91612_1.png) Siegfried\_Cohenberg: > > > and only 1 character to see financial gain > > killing freighter in HS with only one alt is viable? say again ? The question doesn’t match the quote. Highly misleading. ---
**Author:** ![Siegfried\_Cohenberg](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/siegfried_cohenberg/32/515703_2.png) [@Siegfried\_Cohenberg](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Siegfried_Cohenberg)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2019, 9:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/do-you-want-more-protection-from-people-in-highsec-or-less/130176/211 "2019-01-04T21:21:32Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > killing freighter in HS with only one alt is viable? say again ? Getting financial gain with only 1 character to bump is viable yes ---
**Author:** ![Australian\_Excellence](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/australian_excellence/32/367782_2.png) [@Australian\_Excellence](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Australian_Excellence)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2019, 10:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/do-you-want-more-protection-from-people-in-highsec-or-less/130176/212 "2019-01-04T22:11:28Z")
There is so much wrong with the blob of garbage you spew out it would be easier to say what is right (nothing) > [@Rexxar\_Santaro](#): > > The griefing is a part of any online game and EVE is not an exception. CODE is doing it in its own way. What are you even talking about? I’m griefing because I like killing Jump Freighters? 🤣 what? > [@Rexxar\_Santaro](#): > > Tankiest ships? Well, a bad tanked JF (fitted with cargo expanders) has like 550-700k EHP, which is very close to a good tanked Orca. A good tanked JF, which is an Ark or Anshar with full Bulkheads set, can have between 750 and 950k EHP, which is very close to a bad tanked Carrier. To suicide gank ‘em with a fully fitted into dps fleet is a joke. But not everyone will fly fully tanked JF (with implants) like nobody fly a Titan fully fitted with Officer modules. Your numbers are all so horribly off, a triple expanded JF has between 300-400k depending on if you use resist holes. Tanked can be anywhere from 750k-1.1mil. They’re by far the most tankiest ship in highsec. Your Rorq/super numbers are all off too and I don’t know what your point is with your inane rambling. > [@Rexxar\_Santaro](#): > > The JFs aren’t balanced based on their price (high), survivability (low), effectiveness (low cargo, high fuel cost and risk per jump). They look like to T2 Frigates and Cruisers before they were rebalanced and got those Assault Damage Controls. Why nobody used those super tanky T2 Cruiser before that? I think the JF mechanic isn’t an interesting and fun tool, like it’s not fun anymore to bump Titans and Supers out of Tether with Orcas. hahaha `survivability (low)` They’re pretty much the tankiest ship in highsec besides like a dst with x-types and they have a teleport button. Anyone who doesn’t realise how this makes them almost perfectly safe unless the pilot has no situational awareness and makes SEVERAL mistakes is a brainlet. > [@Rexxar\_Santaro](#): > > To gank a JF in 0.5 systems like 75 T1 Catalysts are required =\> 185M ISK! Yeah T1 cats are comically efficient. But guess what, (You need 40-50+ pilots) > [@Rexxar\_Santaro](#): > > To gank a tanky JF in 0.8-1.0 systems like 15-25 T2 Talos fleet is required =\> 1.6B – 2.75B ISK More like 18-60 Talos, at 120-130mil per unit with tag costs + all the logistic costs. > [@Rexxar\_Santaro](#): > > To rebalance a JF somehow is possible in two ways: by increasing their tank or by reducing their hull cost to 3-4B ISK. You realize I’m the single reason so many died last year yes? Is this a JF balance problem or an Australian Excellence problem? 😂 > [@Rexxar\_Santaro](#): > > it’s enough to destroy those ALTs 20 sec before the gank and while the target pilot will aware of what happened it will be to late. Anyone who pre lights their cyno or doesn’t use a clown shoe is a retard and deserves their JF loss. > [@Dracvlad](#): > > The gankers make so much ISK that they can easily afford to blow up empty JF’s. They are 11bn kill mails after all. I think that this indicates above all the unbalanced nature of freighter ganking in hisec and the current stupidity of CCP in terms of the balance of the game here. Here we go 🙄 . It’s obviously the games fault people carry much more than they should in a full drop loot pvp game. Do you not understand how stupid that logic is? the only thing ccp has done that has caused any of this is skill extraction. > [@Rexxar\_Santaro](#): > > Thanks for the suggestions referred to a Capital Jump Drive E-War. I had wrong thoughts referred to it due to a bad article. The next descriptions confused me also And here we have the problem. A guy who knows nothing about JF mechanics arguing they need buffs and a balance pass. 🤣 > [@Dracvlad](#): > > Go ahead try ganking, it is fun and a part of Eve no matter what people tell you, but do note that even ganking needs to have the correct balance It’s so balanced there’s under 10 freighter gankers left in the WHOLE game. > [@Dracvlad](#): > > however bumping is a really naff mechanic every which way I look at it from the angle of the freighter player and it needs to be reduced in efficiency in some way. 😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢 ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2019, 11:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/do-you-want-more-protection-from-people-in-highsec-or-less/130176/213 "2019-01-04T23:15:28Z")
I must say I like the idea of reducing the material cost to make JF’s, CCP do a balance pass on it to get the cost to make down to 4bn please. ---
**Author:** ![Herzog\_Wolfhammer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/herzog_wolfhammer/32/452132_2.png) [@Herzog\_Wolfhammer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Herzog_Wolfhammer)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2019, 11:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/do-you-want-more-protection-from-people-in-highsec-or-less/130176/214 "2019-01-04T23:41:43Z")
You were saying… [http://highsecmilitia.blogspot.com/2018/05/war-alod-gud-fights-gud-fleets.html](http://highsecmilitia.blogspot.com/2018/05/war-alod-gud-fights-gud-fleets.html) Whatever happened to you IRL that makes you you, I’m glad it didn’t happen to me. ---
**Author:** ![Herzog\_Wolfhammer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/herzog_wolfhammer/32/452132_2.png) [@Herzog\_Wolfhammer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Herzog_Wolfhammer)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2019, 11:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/do-you-want-more-protection-from-people-in-highsec-or-less/130176/215 "2019-01-04T23:44:45Z")
Watch it. CCP’s doctrine has been that anything a single person can do is subject to nerf or revision. “Team play” and “social game” and all that. Funny to see you contradict yourself though. ---
**Author:** ![Daniela\_dela\_Mancha](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daniela_dela_mancha/32/111983_2.png) [@Daniela\_dela\_Mancha](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daniela_dela_Mancha)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2019, 11:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/do-you-want-more-protection-from-people-in-highsec-or-less/130176/216 "2019-01-04T23:50:11Z")
People often stars at solo PvP pilot. There is a lot of skills involved, to survive, to enjoy, to make it sustainable. Then, they think crossing HS in a 10B ship with 30B cargo should be easier and safer than a PvP fight? JF are kinda the same. You need skills. If you know what you are doing, - you can make multiple B/few hours - you can’t loose it unless DC (CCP \<3) JF are not weak. JF pilots don’t spend the time to study how it works, how it dies, so they ask for balance. As a hauler, I like this balance. I like to play cat and mouse, to spots the gankers a few gates before, to adapt my path. It’s what makes hauling interesting. Please don’t stop the JF hunt. (And no need to reduce the cost, people will throw away more JF if they are cheaper. You can already replace them within 1 week of hauling) ---
**Author:** ![Siegfried\_Cohenberg](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/siegfried_cohenberg/32/515703_2.png) [@Siegfried\_Cohenberg](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Siegfried_Cohenberg)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2019, 12:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/do-you-want-more-protection-from-people-in-highsec-or-less/130176/217 "2019-01-05T00:06:16Z")
> [@Herzog\_Wolfhammer](#): > > Watch it. CCP’s doctrine has been that anything a single person can do is subject to nerf or revision. “Team play” and “social game” and all that. > > Funny to see you contradict yourself though. CCP probably loves the amount of support tickets my “clients” file after meeting me or one of the other cohenbergs ---
**Author:** ![Herzog\_Wolfhammer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/herzog_wolfhammer/32/452132_2.png) [@Herzog\_Wolfhammer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Herzog_Wolfhammer)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2019, 2:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/do-you-want-more-protection-from-people-in-highsec-or-less/130176/218 "2019-01-05T02:26:01Z")
I’ll take “Things that Never Happened” for 200. Dude I convoed scores of your victims. None of them cared. They already factored the losses in. The most I could get from them was a combat alt in AG. Get over yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Siegfried\_Cohenberg](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/siegfried_cohenberg/32/515703_2.png) [@Siegfried\_Cohenberg](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Siegfried_Cohenberg)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2019, 2:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/do-you-want-more-protection-from-people-in-highsec-or-less/130176/219 "2019-01-05T02:35:14Z")
> [@Herzog\_Wolfhammer](#): > > None of them cared. > Get over yourself. 😂😂😂 Ah yes none of them cared, I’m gonna need to bump more freighters until they start caring then. ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2019, 8:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/do-you-want-more-protection-from-people-in-highsec-or-less/130176/220 "2019-01-05T08:14:19Z")
See it this way: When none of them cared then there is nothing broken, or in need of a fix. Not that this is news, because bumping is fine as it is right now, but hey! ---
**Author:** ![Balos\_Tritapo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/balos_tritapo/32/89875_2.png) [@Balos\_Tritapo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Balos_Tritapo)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2019, 10:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/do-you-want-more-protection-from-people-in-highsec-or-less/130176/222 "2019-01-05T10:21:40Z")
If something is rotten and one points it out it’s not the fault of the one pointing at it… It’s no problem solver to kill the messenger… ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2019, 10:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/do-you-want-more-protection-from-people-in-highsec-or-less/130176/224 "2019-01-05T10:51:37Z")
I also know how to avoid being ganked. And have done quite a lot of logistics in my time. The key thing for me is not so much the JF’s, I want all freighter ganks to be like JF ganks, in other words the bumping mechanic is no longer the key thing. If all freighter ganks were on the same basis as JF ganks I would think the balance is fine at least as I see it now. However JF’s are too expensive now, their price has basically tripled since I last brought one. So you just say no big deal, to that? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/do-you-want-more-protection-from-people-in-highsec-or-less/130176.md?page=10) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/do-you-want-more-protection-from-people-in-highsec-or-less/130176.md?page=12)